Politics 2017 part II

[Raithe]

For a wander into the Scottish arena..

 

A chilling glimpse of one party Scotland

Edited February 6, 2017 by Raithe

[Raithe]

And in a semi-political theme..

 

The Queen hit her 65th Anniversary on the Throne.

 

Telegraph - Queen makes history, reaches Sapphire Jubilee

Edited February 6, 2017 by Raithe

[Barothmuk]

Kind of funny that the two posters who oppose socialism the most admit to not knowing what collective ownership means.

[Hurlshort]

[Raithe]

Of course, one to always remember:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUqytjlHNIM

[BruceVC]

Kind of funny that the two posters who oppose socialism the most admit to not knowing what collective ownership means.

Its not a commonly used term in modern free market or corporate reality?

 

It reminds me of some bygone Soviet Stalin " great agricultural project to prove we better than the West  " .....whoops we just starved 30 million rural people to death

 

Oh well. its okay because we are free of the " evils and corrupting influence of Capiltalism "  

[Guard Dog]

I liked the Budweiser one better. Of course when Adolphus Busch actually came here there were no immigration laws.

[Raithe]

And Trump's tweet of "All negative polls are actually fake news."

 

Do we get the feeling that's how he's going to approach everything for the rest of his term?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Blame it on the internet, now you can have people blame nazi = right wing on google and others will actually believe it because it fits their preconceived notions.

 

How do you collectively own something without the government owning it? Any historical examples? And why is "democratic" part of the definition?

 

Easily. Publicly Listed Cimpanies are collectively owned and are not owned by the government, they're also at least theoretically little d democratic. Otherwise, Co-Ops, syndicates, Apoism etc etc, they're even properly democratic.

 

Personally, I'd get rid of 'democratic' though, and go for the straight 2-axes political compass style set up of having left (socialist) and right (capitalist) with both of those being independent of the authoritarian (statist, undemocratic)/ anarchism (libertarianism, democratic) axis.

 

OK, so corporations are actually socialist, I got it. Collective ownership generally means owned by society, not by a group of people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do you collectively own something without the government owning it? Any historical examples? And why is "democratic" part of the definition?

 

For example share ownership.

 

Yes, this and agreements like trusts, partnerships and hedge fund investment or just normal investments that buy assets for the the financial return

 

So there are numerous ways to share ownership and the dividends and profitability

 

 

I don't think this was what "collective own" means. We have that now, it just means there is more than a single person as owner.

Almost all big companies have shareholders, but does that mean they belong "to the people"?

 

No, the people who own shares dont technically own the company but rather benefit from profit in the form of dividends

 

Wow, mister finance guy, that's Hurlshot level of ignorance.

 

 

Cool, we don't have to follow laws any more, let's go loot an 84 Lumber store. Edited February 6, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Wrath of Dagon]

I liked the Budweiser one better. Of course when Adolphus Busch actually came here there were no immigration laws.

That one was apparently a bunch of lies also.

[redneckdevil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPo2B-vjZ28

Wtf is this? Am I supposed to feel sad or something?

[Malcador]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPo2B-vjZ28

I liked the Budweiser one better. Of course when Adolphus Busch actually came here there were no immigration laws.

Apparently people are in a tizzy over the Coke one, where it is sung in other languages.

[Elerond]

There are many type of corporations.

 

Some corporations just seek funding by selling their shares to people and rewards people by giving them part of their profit. This kind of corporations can't be said to be collectively owned. Apple is one example of this kind of corporation.

 

But that is not only way to go. There is also corporations where all share holders are seen as equals and all their customers become share holders. This kind corporations are very collectively owned and they work very similarly as public administration. In Finland we have quite lot of such companies that have been founded by worker unions and other left wing communistic organisations. Like for example one of our biggest department store chains is such, one of the largest insurance companies is such. In past we had lots of phone companies that were such and so on.

[Chilloutman]

There are many type of corporations.

 

Some corporations just seek funding by selling their shares to people and rewards people by giving them part of their profit. This kind of corporations can't be said to be collectively owned. Apple is one example of this kind of corporation.

 

But that is not only way to go. There is also corporations where all share holders are seen as equals and all their customers become share holders. This kind corporations are very collectively owned and they work very similarly as public administration. In Finland we have quite lot of such companies that have been founded by worker unions and other left wing communistic organisations. Like for example one of our biggest department store chains is such, one of the largest insurance companies is such. In past we had lots of phone companies that were such and so on.

ehmm, how that company earn money if all customers of that company are share holders at the same time?

[BruceVC]

 

Blame it on the internet, now you can have people blame nazi = right wing on google and others will actually believe it because it fits their preconceived notions.

 

How do you collectively own something without the government owning it? Any historical examples? And why is "democratic" part of the definition?

 

Easily. Publicly Listed Cimpanies are collectively owned and are not owned by the government, they're also at least theoretically little d democratic. Otherwise, Co-Ops, syndicates, Apoism etc etc, they're even properly democratic.

 

Personally, I'd get rid of 'democratic' though, and go for the straight 2-axes political compass style set up of having left (socialist) and right (capitalist) with both of those being independent of the authoritarian (statist, undemocratic)/ anarchism (libertarianism, democratic) axis.

 

OK, so corporations are actually socialist, I got it. Collective ownership generally means owned by society, not by a group of people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do you collectively own something without the government owning it? Any historical examples? And why is "democratic" part of the definition?

 

For example share ownership.

 

Yes, this and agreements like trusts, partnerships and hedge fund investment or just normal investments that buy assets for the the financial return

 

So there are numerous ways to share ownership and the dividends and profitability

 

 

I don't think this was what "collective own" means. We have that now, it just means there is more than a single person as owner.

Almost all big companies have shareholders, but does that mean they belong "to the people"?

 

No, the people who own shares dont technically own the company but rather benefit from profit in the form of dividends

 

Wow, mister finance guy, that's Hurlshot level of ignorance.

 

 

 sorry WOD but educate me. What am I missing about being a shareholder. I always like learning new things 

[Guard Dog]

 

I liked the Budweiser one better. Of course when Adolphus Busch actually came here there were no immigration laws.

That one was apparently a bunch of lies also.

 

Yeah, but it was a good story.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 sorry WOD but educate me. What am I missing about being a shareholder. I always like learning new things

A common shareholder owns the percentage of the corporation corresponding to the percentage of shares he holds.

 

 

Trump called it too, he said Patriots by 8 points.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[BruceVC]

There are many type of corporations.

 

Some corporations just seek funding by selling their shares to people and rewards people by giving them part of their profit. This kind of corporations can't be said to be collectively owned. Apple is one example of this kind of corporation.

 

But that is not only way to go. There is also corporations where all share holders are seen as equals and all their customers become share holders. This kind corporations are very collectively owned and they work very similarly as public administration. In Finland we have quite lot of such companies that have been founded by worker unions and other left wing communistic organisations. Like for example one of our biggest department store chains is such, one of the largest insurance companies is such. In past we had lots of phone companies that were such and so on.

I have to say that example in Finland about companies sounds odd. I must be misunderstanding you, in your example you not saying these shareholders make company decisions ? The decision making process and daily running of every single company I have seen and worked in is the same, shareholders have  no say in daily operations 

 

Also, and this is probably over complicating the question, but what type of securities do these companies offer.... bonds, common stocks or preferred stocks?

[BruceVC]

 

 sorry WOD but educate me. What am I missing about being a shareholder. I always like learning new things

A common shareholder owns the percentage of the corporation corresponding to the percentage of shares he holds.

 

Okay, but he doesnt own  the company.....but wait. What is your definition of " owning " 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 sorry WOD but educate me. What am I missing about being a shareholder. I always like learning new things

A common shareholder owns the percentage of the corporation corresponding to the percentage of shares he holds.

 

Okay, but he doesnt own  the company.....but wait. What is your definition of " owning " 

 

I think you confuse owning with managing.

 

 

No I am  not the one confused

[Chilloutman]

well you are kind both wrong, usually only major shareholders have decision making power, in some cases majority shareholder is only one person. So technically you own 0,00001% of your garden, and your gardener don't care what do you think

Edited February 6, 2017 by Chilloutman

[ShadySands]

Check out New Belgium Brewing Company

 

It's employee owned

Edited February 6, 2017 by ShadySands

[Hurlshort]

Wow, mister finance guy, that's Hurlshot level of ignorance.

 

 

Somebody takes his internet foruming a bit too seriously...

[Chilloutman]

Check out New Belgium Brewing Company

 

It's employee owned

and does it omit publicly tradeable shares?

[Chilloutman]

Check out New Belgium Brewing Company

 

It's employee owned

do you know details, how many employees we are talking about? what is allocation of shares? what are rules when someone left company, what happen if someone new come into the company?