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To help get this thread back on track a bit, how about describing how your personal idea of how a good video game romance subplot would go? With any of the companions or a hypothetical character. (And please lets resist the temptation to roll our eyes at each other, at least in the thread)

 

Well, something subtle, with appropriate voice acting. Whatever that’d mean. I don’t think I need a full-blown Romeo and Juliet drama.

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To help get this thread back on track a bit, how about describing how your personal idea of how a good video game romance subplot would go? With any of the companions or a hypothetical character. (And please lets resist the temptation to roll our eyes at each other, at least in the thread)

 

It wouldn't.

 

Keyword: subplot.

 

Vidya game romance can only work if it's central to the story. Planescape: Torment did it with Deionarra and to a lesser extent, both Annah and Fall-from-Grace. These weren't subplots, they were crucial strands of the Nameless One's story.

 

Another good example: Prince of Persia -- Shadows of Time. That did it well too, and it also made it intimate and central to the story.

 

Any attempt to make romance a side dish is bound to turn into harem anime or push-this-button-to-win-teh-secz. Either make romance central to the whole thing, something the player has to deal with whether s/he wants to or not -- where "dealing with" may involve any of a number of different ways things can go -- or don't do it at all.

 

(Okay, there is one way it could work as a subplot: between NPCs, PC not involved. That could work the same way romance plots can work in films.)

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Golly, if only there were some way for the PC to decline a romance, perhaps by dialog choice or something. With such a mythical system in place, those that enjoy romances could partake in them and those that do not could choose not to participate. I guess we can only hope for a brighter future.

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Golly, if only there were some way for the PC to decline a romance, perhaps by dialog choice or something. With such a mythical system in place, those that enjoy romances could partake in them and those that do not could choose not to participate. I guess we can only hope for a brighter future.

Considering I have had to kill off characters because I found myself forced into a romance, that would be grand! :D

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

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Golly, if only there were some way for the PC to decline a romance, perhaps by dialog choice or something. With such a mythical system in place, those that enjoy romances could partake in them and those that do not could choose not to participate. I guess we can only hope for a brighter future.

Considering I have had to kill off characters because I found myself forced into a romance, that would be grand! :D

That's a little extreme. What romance were you forced into?

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Golly, if only there were some way for the PC to decline a romance, perhaps by dialog choice or something. With such a mythical system in place, those that enjoy romances could partake in them and those that do not could choose not to participate. I guess we can only hope for a brighter future.

Considering I have had to kill off characters because I found myself forced into a romance, that would be grand! :D

That's a little extreme. What romance were you forced into?

 

Ashley, apparently just talking to people is enough to get people wanting my Shepard-meat, had to Virmire her to keep her off me.  Same thing happened with Liara too in another playthrough, and since you can't Virmire her she ended up in my cabin even though I had already pretty much told her to bugger off outside the lockers and only just managed to avoid being forced to feed her my meat, and even then the game considered that I had 'romanced' her...

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Ashley, apparently just talking to people is enough to get people wanting my Shepard-meat, had to Virmire her to keep her off me.  Same thing happened with Liara too in another playthrough, and since you can't Virmire her she ended up in my cabin even though I had already pretty much told her to bugger off outside the lockers and only just managed to avoid being forced to feed her my meat, and even then the game considered that I had 'romanced' her...

Mass Effect 1 only kind of ninjamances you. Sure, the default state if you talk to them every mission is romance, but there are multiple opportunities for you to express your lack of interest. The only problems with it in Mass Effect 1 (incidentally this is solved in the later games) is that it never explicitly tells you when you should say you aren't interested and it assumes that you are interested if you never say anything. Based off what we know from the reputation system it will be a lot more visible than in Mass Effect.

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Ashley, apparently just talking to people is enough to get people wanting my Shepard-meat, had to Virmire her to keep her off me.  Same thing happened with Liara too in another playthrough, and since you can't Virmire her she ended up in my cabin even though I had already pretty much told her to bugger off outside the lockers and only just managed to avoid being forced to feed her my meat, and even then the game considered that I had 'romanced' her...

 

Weird. Ive never played ME but a quick Google search provides: How to avoid all romantic relationships in mass effect 3? There you go!

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With the returning companions, I hope how you treated them in the first game has an impact on your relationship with them from the start. Maybe they won't be interested in you because you have a Disposition they dislike, or because you made a choice in the first game that they strongly disagree with?

I'm pretty excited about barks changing depending on how a character feels about you - it's the little things. Hoping for special barks if you're in a romantic relationship with a companion.

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Golly, if only there were some way for the PC to decline a romance, perhaps by dialog choice or something. With such a mythical system in place, those that enjoy romances could partake in them and those that do not could choose not to participate. I guess we can only hope for a brighter future.

 

If you try to please everyone, you'll end up with a product that isn't really the thing for anyone. Too much choice takes away from the overall narrative by restricting plot developments and such. One should pick an approach and stick with it, trying to give everyone a "choice" to pick what they want works for mindless mass-produced entertainment, it doesn't work if you're trying to create a piece of art. If there is choice, it should be meaningful in the context of the themes of the story and the setting, not just "I want two slides of romance, one bad guy and some cheese and ketchup with my fries please." PrimeJunta already mentioned Planescape: Torment, that's an excellent example on how to make choice right.

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To help get this thread back on track a bit, how about describing how your personal idea of how a good video game romance subplot would go? With any of the companions or a hypothetical character. (And please lets resist the temptation to roll our eyes at each other, at least in the thread)

 

Every video game romance* I have experienced felt too abrupt. It's two conversations and "Hey, I feel this deep, profound connection between us." It feels more like stepping in to a trap than any kind of relationship. Then it ends as abruptly as it started. "Sex was great. Lets kill the big bad."

 

*Exceptions being Jaheira and Viconia in BG2 and Tali in ME2, because in both cases romance blossomed in the sequel.  

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If you try to please everyone, you'll end up with a product that isn't really the thing for anyone. Too much choice takes away from the overall narrative by restricting plot developments and such. One should pick an approach and stick with it, trying to give everyone a "choice" to pick what they want works for mindless mass-produced entertainment, it doesn't work if you're trying to create a piece of art. If there is choice, it should be meaningful in the context of the themes of the story and the setting, not just "I want two slides of romance, one bad guy and some cheese and ketchup with my fries please." PrimeJunta already mentioned Planescape: Torment, that's an excellent example on how to make choice right.

I see, you're worried about the "finished product suffering" even though you don't know the end result yet. K. :thumbsup:

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I think the most important thing is to have a romance plot that fits with the overall story and tone of the game.

 

Planescape Torment's romances were sad and heartbreaking, they showed how love can make or break a human being.

 

In Mass Effect the romances were sweet and heartwarming, almost like Star Trek episode. (Yes, I liked them, sue me).

 

In Dragon Age: Origins the romances were epic and tragic, like in some grand tale.

 

In NWN: Hordes of the Underdark the romances were fierce and emotional.

 

So ... what I'm trying to say is: the most important thing is that the romance plot is in tune with the general mood of the story. At least in my opinion.

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To help get this thread back on track a bit, how about describing how your personal idea of how a good video game romance subplot would go? 

 

Luckily I have just the quote for the occasion.

 

I just can't write it unless one of the pair gets impaled on a pike, set on fire, or betrays the other and then impales them on a pike or sets them on fire. Generally, I prefer unrequited, melancholy, quiet suffering whenever possible

 

Change "write" to "enjoy" and we're golden.

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If you try to please everyone, you'll end up with a product that isn't really the thing for anyone. Too much choice takes away from the overall narrative by restricting plot developments and such. One should pick an approach and stick with it, trying to give everyone a "choice" to pick what they want works for mindless mass-produced entertainment, it doesn't work if you're trying to create a piece of art. If there is choice, it should be meaningful in the context of the themes of the story and the setting, not just "I want two slides of romance, one bad guy and some cheese and ketchup with my fries please." PrimeJunta already mentioned Planescape: Torment, that's an excellent example on how to make choice right.

I see, you're worried about the "finished product suffering" even though you don't know the end result yet. K. :thumbsup:

 

 

There are different consequences to different design approaches, the concept shouldn't be that difficult to understand. The "we don't have the finished product so we can't make accurate hypothetical predictions on the consequences of different design philosophies" - line of thinking is just kinda stupid; that way of thinking doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever when one is trying to have a discussion. The only thing it leads to is the end of thoughts and discussions on the subject matter to which it is applied to. Be careful of that attitude or it will keep you ignorant.

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There are different consequences to different design approaches, the concept shouldn't be that difficult to understand. The "we don't have the finished product so we can't make accurate hypothetical predictions on the consequences of different design philosophies" - line of thinking is just kinda stupid; that way of thinking doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever when one is trying to have a discussion. The only thing it leads to is the end of thoughts and discussions on the subject matter to which it is applied to. Be careful of that attitude or it will keep you ignorant.

:lol:

 

Well, Im not part of the design studio so ima just allow the developers themselves to determine what they can and cant do. :shrugz:

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*Exceptions being Jaheira and Viconia in BG2 and Tali in ME2, because in both cases romance blossomed in the sequel. 

I see your point about the carrying over the sequel, but I treated Tali like **** in my last palythrough

didn't gave her the data for the pilgrimage on ME1, gave his friend to Cerberus for interrogation, managed to get her exiled, etc. and just mean comments overall. Oh, and chose geth over quarians

and at the end of her mission on ME2 she still trusted me enough to initiate the relationship. Viconia and Jaheira romances don't start until BG2 since their interactions are rather scarce on BG1. It's true that it seems more "natural" since they know each other from the previous game but in Tali's case it's still abrupt (you just have to accept her on one dialogue). Viconia (I don't know about Jaheira) requires dozens of interactions and it seems more gradual, though.

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I see, you're worried about the "finished product suffering" even though you don't know the end result yet. K. :thumbsup:

 

Um... isn't that why we're discussing the topic? And why @LLaney asked us for feedback?

 

Speaking of, Mr. Mod, you're doing a stellar job keeping this thread on-topic. Just saying...

Edited by PrimeJunta

I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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I see, you're worried about the "finished product suffering" even though you don't know the end result yet. K. :thumbsup:

 

Um... isn't that why we're discussing the topic? And why @LLaney asked us for feedback?

 

Speaking of, Mr. Mod, you're doing a stellar job keeping this thread on-topic. Just saying...

 

Just sayin...nothing? Ill just quote myself from earlier and leave you guys to your woeful rationalizations:

 

Well, its frequently the response of players who do not wish to engage in this optional part of the game. Usually closely followed by "its stealing zotz from other parts of the game". Just wait and let it play out. :lol:

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Just sayin...nothing? Ill just quote myself from earlier and leave you guys to your woeful rationalizations:

 

Gfted1, you've been derailing this thread. 

 

A DEVELOPER explicitly asked us for feedback. We started to give it, and then you started gratuitously sniping at us. That is in my opinion entirely unbecoming of a moderator. 

 

I have reported your posts in this thread, and hope the other mods slap you down.

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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Gfted1, you've been derailing this thread. 

 

A DEVELOPER explicitly asked us for feedback. We started to give it, and then you started gratuitously sniping at us. That is in my opinion entirely unbecoming of a moderator. 

 

I have reported your posts in this thread, and hope the other mods slap you down.

:lol: Oh noes! How dare I state my opinions!

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