Blarghagh Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Also... arent you a mod and supposed to defuse the situation? XDXDXD Was I being inflammatory? Either way, other mods own the deadfire boards, I'm more active on other boards. Anyway, though I paraphrased your jackpot phrase I wasn't specically adressing you rather the idea that gamer girls are one in a million. And I acknowledged I'm a statistical outlier, but one female gamer in an entire social circle at this point strikes me as the opposite outlier. (I'm 29, for the record). As for not getting matched in Destiny, I have my own theories about that. I wrote a long explanation but my phone ate it, but the gist of my experience is a majority of lady gamers don't use matchmaking. I have more examples, but my fiancee has two Overwatch accounts and the one she uses for random pugs has a male handle, and I spent 4+ years in a WoW guild that had a female majority and they rarely grouped outside the guild, and never used random matchmaking. I make no conclusions why, but pretty much none of the gamer ladies I know play with randos or participate in open game communities like this board. Do you even realize how much I want to say just "**** you and stuff your good luck where the sun don't shine"? :D Now I'm just jealous as ****. Don't be. I also suffer from crippling anxiety and depression and being a mediocre freelance 3D animator pays ****. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Wow, this topic quickly turned into a ****ing ****show. 3 "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooAmEye Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Also... arent you a mod and supposed to defuse the situation? XDXDXD Was I being inflammatory? Either way, other mods own the deadfire boards, I'm more active on other boards. Anyway, though I paraphrased your jackpot phrase I wasn't specically adressing you rather the idea that gamer girls are one in a million. And I acknowledged I'm a statistical outlier, but one female gamer in an entire social circle at this point strikes me as the opposite outlier. (I'm 29, for the record). As for not getting matched in Destiny, I have my own theories about that. I wrote a long explanation but my phone ate it, but the gist of my experience is a majority of lady gamers don't use matchmaking. I have more examples, but my fiancee has two Overwatch accounts and the one she uses for random pugs has a male handle, and I spent 4+ years in a WoW guild that had a female majority and they rarely grouped outside the guild, and never used random matchmaking. I make no conclusions why, but pretty much none of the gamer ladies I know play with randos or participate in open game communities like this board. Do you even realize how much I want to say just "**** you and stuff your good luck where the sun don't shine"? :D Now I'm just jealous as ****. Don't be. I also suffer from crippling anxiety and depression and being a mediocre freelance 3D animator pays ****. Nah, you definitely hit the nail on the head. My female gamer friends are super into multiplayer games like Halo of LoL (while I am the antisocial one playing Obsidian games ). One of them, once told me she never joined in on voice chat due to the comments and insults she'd get online. Seriously, when people are willing to be sexist and racist at a drop of a hat, it much of a surprise that most women prefer not to make their gender known online. Hell, give that f*g**t gets tossed around so casually, I avoid those games myself most of the time. Also, anxiety twin highfive Edited February 20, 2017 by HooAmEye 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yngvildr Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Hello, my two cents : Pillars of Eternity don't need romance. I loved the way your relationship/friendship was written with your companions and, even as I am a lover of "Dating Sim Simulator : Hey, French Accents Can Sound Sexy" and "Dating Sim Simulator : Garrus, We'll Bang, Ok.", I wouldn't give a damn about romance. And you know what : I'm still curious about what might have been, but from what I understood, Obsidian doesn't like romance and the whole point of this company, of this game, is to do only things they like so they make sure it's done well. So yes, maybe I have a huge crush on Pallegina, maybe I think Aloth, Iselmyr and my Watcher are my number one OT3, but what I got in game was enough for me to fantasise in fanfiction and I can never thank Obsidian enough for it. Of course I hope they include a romance next game, maybe by hiring someone who's enthusiastic about it, but if there isn't, you know what : I won't care because my friendship with my companions is just great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heijoushin Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Rolls for charisma check*... Tek tek tektek...tek. Natural 1. "Thats hard sheesh... where were the days of my nat 20s" XD Leeuwenhart, you big humble-bragger *playfully punches shoulder*. With a GF 14 years younger, and all that experience lending your ear to customers, your Charisma score must be at least in the 15-18 range So, my 2 cents on romance: I don't think we need obvious in-your-face romance, just little hints of it. (Why doesn't this topic have a poll btw?) The best things about romance (the thrill of knowing that another human being is interested in you, the warmth of their body etc.) are impossible to replicate in a video game. At least, until we get human-like AI or super realistic VR. So I feel that the best thing would be to have subtle hints, but to leave the bulk of it up to the player's imagination. Have you gentlemen ever heard of the Japanese concept of "Chirarism"? This concept says that a little flash/peak of something is the most exciting. If we see the whole thing, we lose interest. Edited February 27, 2017 by Heijoushin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 My wife also plays video games. I wouldn't call her a gamer, but together we played through BG (Big World Megamod-Thingy, multiplayer) many times. Currently she's playing Tyranny and Pillars again. She's not active in forums and stuff or posting anything about it, she does not play online to get achievements. That means you don't notice her online as a female player. But she plays and I guess one of the reasons she enjoys these games is that women in these games are not either big breasted killer machines in bikinis or stereotypical little girls. And she also likes Durance . That you can't see a lot of female gamers online does not mean they are not there. This kind of game is some kind of a niche, because it is not clearly headed into a boys/girls-only direction. I think this is a good thing and one of the reasons these games are clearly better than the rest. 1 --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeJunta Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Lot of market research has been done into gaming demographics. The gender split is roughly 50/50 by now overall. Google it. 2 I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorschach Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Lot of market research has been done into gaming demographics. The gender split is roughly 50/50 by now overall. Google it. I don't know, probably thoes numbers are for general gaming (i.e. almost anything from browser and mobile games to this kind of games, including AAA mainstream games [Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, etc.]) but we're talking here about a specific game in a specific time. You have here the stats from DOS KS which I think are more representative than just general gaming. There is still a huge bias towards male in this kind of RPG. Anyway I do not have stats on the opinions on romance depending on genre so I won't talk about it. Just bear in mind that many of the comments about "romance is there for women audience" are highly speculative, based on certain internet communities not necessarily representative of the whole population and based on steriotypes. I'd say it makes no sense speculating about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heijoushin Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Lot of market research has been done into gaming demographics. The gender split is roughly 50/50 by now overall. Google it. *shrugs* They say that all the time but... I have lots of questions about that study: How big was their sample group? What country was it carried out in? What games count? How much time did you have to spend playing to qualify? etc. I mean, you get the occasional lass like Lord Mord's wife, but... I'm not convinced that we're at a 50/50 split yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Lot of market research has been done into gaming demographics. The gender split is roughly 50/50 by now overall. Google it. That statistic includes mobile, casual, facebook and pretty much everything else. So in practice it doesn't really mean much. "Core" games are still being played primarily by men. Here's a good article on the subject. https://medium.com/@adrianchm/women-and-video-games-f0eb7a7d75fa#.vk17oadh5 There are games that sell millions of copies yet are played mostly by women. Their devs openly admit that they cater to them. And this is not a controversy, no one's saying that they should be made more "male friendly". I see no reason why male dominated games should be any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeJunta Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 :shrug: You can keep speculating 'til the cows come home, or you can look at the data and draw your own conclusions. Again, there's lots on Google. I'm sure if you slice and dice it enough you'll find a niche that fits your preconceptions, whatever they are. Here's a good starting point: http://essentialfacts.theesa.com/Essential-Facts-2016.pdf Wikipedia has some demographics broken down by genre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_games According to the Wikipedia article, with cRPG's it's between 24 and 33% women. Still a minority, but a big enough minority that it's clearly no longer a NO GURLS ALLOWD treehouse. (If you want those, go with tactical shooters or sports). I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I see no reason why male dominated games should be any different. So be it. Games tailored to men are dumb games anyway. This game is not. Not dominated by men, not tailored to men, not dumb. I'm beginning to ask myself, what this discussion is about? Do you want to have less female characters, because you think this is a "male game"? --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 If romances are for women, but women don't play games, how'd we end up with BioWare, huh? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 So be it. Games tailored to men are dumb games anyway. This game is not. Not dominated by men, not tailored to men, not dumb. I'm beginning to ask myself, what this discussion is about? Do you want to have less female characters, because you think this is a "male game"? I said nothing about female characters. I don't see how more or less of those would attract more women. That argument is as simplistic as your comment about "big breasted killer machines". My point was that there is an entire spectrum of games that appeal for various reasons to all manner of people. Neither female games like mentioned in the article have any obligation to cater to men, nor games that are played primarily by men should be made more female friendly just because. Not to say they shouldn't of course, but that should not be treated as some kind of moral responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) I said nothing about female characters. I don't see how more or less of those would attract more women. That argument is as simplistic as your comment about "big breasted killer machines". My point was that there is an entire spectrum of games that appeal for various reasons to all manner of people. Neither female games like mentioned in the article have any obligation to cater to men, nor games that are played primarily by men should be made more female friendly just because. Not to say they shouldn't of course, but that should not be treated as some kind of moral responsibility. My comment wasn't directed towards you alone. What are we talking about here? The topic was the ratio male/female characters in games similar to PoE. Now we are talking about if there are enough women playing those games to justify more female characters. That's absurd. These games are played by women too. Just look in the forum. And even if not: What is the problem with female chracters? Why do you need statistical evidence that women play the game too? We are not talking about pink fluffy unicorns. We are talking about female characters. Oh and regarding the big breasted killer machines: What did I think writing that? You are right. Those don't exist. Obviously just a cliche about the gaming industry. Edited February 27, 2017 by Lord_Mord --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Oh and regarding the big breasted killer machines: What did I think writing that? You are right. Those don't exist. Obviously just a cliche about the gaming industry. What is this then? Should we blame women for enjoying sexy romance novels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I think your spoiler is a philisophical killer here. 1 Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 What is this then? Should we blame women for enjoying sexy romance novels? That's a K.O. I have to admit you were right. WE are the sex objects here. Excuse me, I'm afk for a while. Have to burn my bra. --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Oh and regarding the big breasted killer machines: What did I think writing that? You are right. Those don't exist. Obviously just a cliche about the gaming industry. What is this then? Should we blame women for enjoying sexy romance novels? "but big muscles and tight abs is a male power fantasy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 That's a K.O. I have to admit you were right. WE are the sex objects here. Excuse me, I'm afk for a while. Have to burn my bra. No reason for sarcasm. It is a curious phenomena that males are sexualized all the time both in games and other media, yet no one seems to care,but a sexualized female is somehow wrong. By the way, another interesting piece of information is that Bayonetta was designed by a woman, not a man. So again, not as simple as one might think. But in any case, this is all offtopic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 No reason for sarcasm. It is a curious phenomena that males are sexualized all the time both in games and other media, yet no one seems to care,but a sexualized female is somehow wrong. By the way, another interesting piece of information is that Bayonetta was designed by a woman, not a man. So again, not as simple as one might think. But in any case, this is all offtopic. Was I sarcastic? Didn't notice. So what is this discussion about? Nobody gets sexualised in Pillars (Well not exactly. Durance sexualizes women. Probably other characters, too. But the game itself doesn't.). No problem. Even if every companion was female. Still no problem. Then why the endless discussion about how many women play games? Where should that lead? --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheisEjsing Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Guys, please stop reducing romances into wangs, abs, boobs, and sex. It's about the beautfiful shared insanity between two people and all the stupid **** I do when in love, ehm.. I mean their journey and all the wonderful experiences those people share! Edited February 27, 2017 by TheisEjsing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLaney Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 To help get this thread back on track a bit, how about describing how your personal idea of how a good video game romance subplot would go? With any of the companions or a hypothetical character. (And please lets resist the temptation to roll our eyes at each other, at least in the thread) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinysalamander Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 To help get this thread back on track a bit, how about describing how your personal idea of how a good video game romance subplot would go? With any of the companions or a hypothetical character. (And please lets resist the temptation to roll our eyes at each other, at least in the thread) Well, something subtle, with appropriate voice acting. Whatever that’d mean. I don’t think I need a full-blown Romeo and Juliet drama. Pillars of Bugothas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeJunta Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 To help get this thread back on track a bit, how about describing how your personal idea of how a good video game romance subplot would go? With any of the companions or a hypothetical character. (And please lets resist the temptation to roll our eyes at each other, at least in the thread) It wouldn't. Keyword: subplot. Vidya game romance can only work if it's central to the story. Planescape: Torment did it with Deionarra and to a lesser extent, both Annah and Fall-from-Grace. These weren't subplots, they were crucial strands of the Nameless One's story. Another good example: Prince of Persia -- Shadows of Time. That did it well too, and it also made it intimate and central to the story. Any attempt to make romance a side dish is bound to turn into harem anime or push-this-button-to-win-teh-secz. Either make romance central to the whole thing, something the player has to deal with whether s/he wants to or not -- where "dealing with" may involve any of a number of different ways things can go -- or don't do it at all. (Okay, there is one way it could work as a subplot: between NPCs, PC not involved. That could work the same way romance plots can work in films.) 6 I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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