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Josh Sawyer Something Awful PoE2 Posts


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First of all, your last post, infinitwhatever, has in one stroke undermined your prior statement about a new sheriff (lead developer) in town.  Don't bother hitting Mr. Null up for changes.   Clearly, Mr. Sawyer still has a hand on the tiller, and it's iron.  The hand... and maybe the tiller.  At any rate, when I see things like 'subclass,' I cringe.  Are we going back to splat-books, twenty volumes of alternate rules, and the non-sense of prestige classes.  I'm new around here, but I thought Mr. Sawyer didn't like those things.  I guess maybe kill XP isn't the joke I thought it was.  Might be we'll see that soon also.  I want to see the game evolve, but multi-classing is simply not what I wanted to see and 'subclasses' simply make my left eyebrow twitch.  Sometimes my right eyebrow also.

So shines the name so shines the name of Roger Young!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MEJM0cboDg

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So it means.. out of a sudden watcher not only lost the stronghold.. he was also being erased all of his memories that brought him/her to his level?

Technically, every power of every class in Eora is fueled by their soul, and if a god sapped the strength of your soul it would be the equivalent to a level drain. It has nothing to do with knowledge. This lore was indeed laid down in the beginning of Pillars of Eternity's original kickstarter campaign.

 

I'm not saying it makes the writing good, or 100% realistic, but it makes sense based on the setting and its lore.

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jes.png

 

I understand the reasoning behind this. For someone who didn't play PoE1 or hasn't played it since it's release to have him jump into it and creating a ~lvl 14 character from scratch would overwhelm the majority (=people not being active here) of players. A solution to this would have been to scale the content to a fresh lvl 1 character or to a higher lvl character. Of course this would require extra balancing and might be too much of a hassle for the expected gain. 

 

I'm kinda fine starting at lvl 1 but it would be really nice to give players at least something if they _imported_ their save. I don't like the idea that people who don't get the exact same as people who do. It would be nice if this is done like in ME. There people who imported their save got more out of it. For example decisions in side quests or other kinda minor stuff. People who don't import a save just got to tell the game their decisions for some major story decisions and got a bit less reactivity in that game. 

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First of all, your last post, infinitwhatever, has in one stroke undermined your prior statement about a new sheriff (lead developer) in town.  Don't bother hitting Mr. Null up for changes.   Clearly, Mr. Sawyer still has a hand on the tiller, and it's iron.  The hand... and maybe the tiller.  At any rate, when I see things like 'subclass,' I cringe.  Are we going back to splat-books, twenty volumes of alternate rules, and the non-sense of prestige classes.  I'm new around here, but I thought Mr. Sawyer didn't like those things.  I guess maybe kill XP isn't the joke I thought it was.  Might be we'll see that soon also.  I want to see the game evolve, but multi-classing is simply not what I wanted to see and 'subclasses' simply make my left eyebrow twitch.  Sometimes my right eyebrow also.

 

I can respect your sentiment in this but why are you bothered with something which (if you so choose) doesn't impact your playthrough? It's a solo game and if you don't want to use sub-/multi-classes you don't have to. It just offers you more options in how you want to build your character. I loved that aspect in NWN 1/2 but if I wanted to I could just play with the base classes. 

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Isn't it more fun to start lvl1 and progress upwards than start as a powerhouse and continue powerhousing? I don't know, I always felt the 1st levels of an rpg are my best because everything is new and makes a big difference - it's more interesting.

Edited by Sedrefilos
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my stuff.

 

...why are you bothered with something which (if you so choose) doesn't impact your playthrough? It's a solo game and if you don't want to use sub-/multi-classes you don't have to. It just offers you more options in how you want to build your character. I loved that aspect in NWN 1/2 but if I wanted to I could just play with the base classes. 

 

 

I'm a lover not a fighter, so I'm not really trashing the system.  I will, nevertheless, try to explain my position.  I see the design in Pillars 1 as elegant, interesting, and fun.  I don't mind subclasses if it all existed in a vacuum and it didn't matter to me as the end user.  However, it does impact me.  I don't like the use of alternate rules and exceptions and the like because I firmly believe that it muddies up the elegant system from the original.  Not that I won't play it and probably enjoy it, but I always hated prestige classes because, rather than expanding choices as the advocates contended, they limit the player through entirely mechanical means.  Better that prestige (and sub-) classes come organically (oh my Lord, please forgive the expression) from the campaign and story.

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So shines the name so shines the name of Roger Young!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MEJM0cboDg

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Isn't it more fun to start lvl1 and progress upwards than start as a powerhouse and continue powerhousing? I don't know, I always felt the 1st levels of an rpg are my best because everything is new and makes a big difference - it's more interesting.

 

 I know what you mean, but in BG2, for example, you aren't a powerhouse at the beginning compared to some of the enemies you run into.

 

The main reason that I don't like restarting at level 1 is that much of your character's identity consists of the level up choices you made (representing the time and virtual sweat/blood invested to get there). I guess it's like starting a new job only to discover you've suddenly forgotten your entire education and experience.

I would rather have started at the end level of PoE and seen a higher level campaign in PoE2.

 

I'm still going to back the game. I can always start with a new character rather than import from a save.

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I like starting again at level 1. I like low level encounters, but, what happens with our experienced companions Eder, Aloth and Pallegina? Do they remain as high level characters? If so, The watcher will be leveling-up too fast before meet them, and I hate fast level-ups.

 

A nice solution is a previous adventure of the watcher in the Vailian Republics. This would be the best strech goal :bow:

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I'm a lover not a fighter, so I'm not really trashing the system.  I will, nevertheless, try to explain my position.  I see the design in Pillars 1 as elegant, interesting, and fun.  I don't mind subclasses if it all existed in a vacuum and it didn't matter to me as the end user.  However, it does impact me.  I don't like the use of alternate rules and exceptions and the like because I firmly believe that it muddies up the elegant system from the original.  Not that I won't play it and probably enjoy it, but I always hated prestige classes because, rather than expanding choices as the advocates contended, they limit the player through entirely mechanical means.  Better that prestige (and sub-) classes come organically (oh my Lord, please forgive the expression) from the campaign and story.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I think I can now understand your opinion better. 

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What about 3 returning companions? How are they gonna explain their level drain?

 

If they were at the keep at the time, then it should be fairly easy to explain. "Oh, hey we came to visit, what's u... OH MY GOD WHAT IS THE STATUE DOING?!"

 

That's the only logical explanation I came up with as well. There is another - Eothas level drained the whole of Dyrwood but that would be way too stupid and mean, and everything we did in PoE1 will be obsolete. In any case Eder should be pissed off:)

Edited by Aramintai
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What if Level 1 in Deadfire is like the equivalent of Level 12 then? You get to start with X amount of Ability and Talent points? Mages/Druids/Priests get a couple of levels in their respective schools?

​Perhaps the spell system is more transformative and flexible (like Tyranny), allowing you to mix and combine components, basically giving you room to cast a myriad of different spells at Level 1?

​And Attributes starting at a higher value as well, or getting more points at character creation, perhaps?

​If they go the Tyranny route of character creation ("Conquest"-esque) they would probably reward several abilities and such as you go forward.

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What if Level 1 in Deadfire is like the equivalent of Level 12 then? You get to start with X amount of Ability and Talent points? Mages/Druids/Priests get a couple of levels in their respective schools?

This would mean that we're starting with a watcher that was capable of killing Adra Dragon. Which means there's pretty much no threat in the world that would be able to touch the protagonist.

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In Deadfire, what happens to an Adra Dragon that gets touched by Eothas rebirth? Not to mention all new areas and such, no threats there?

​Were there no threats in Baldur's Gate 2?

​Level 1 is just a mechanical number. But it does spark the question what sort of "power level" characters will be equivalent of. Is it Level 5? Level 10?

​Or is it just a narrative "level drain"?

​Is Deadfire a High-Level Campaign in concept?

EDIT: Wrong thread really, going to post in the other one.

Edited by Osvir
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​Were there no threats in Baldur's Gate 2?

I'm pretty sure the most powerful being you defeated in BG 1 was a Werewolf of some description. Well, or Sarevok. You only get to fight dragons in BG2, so the power progression in BG games was relatively logical (albeit not entirely, you still met NPCs which were generally a lot more powerful than those in BG1 for no reason)

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What about 3 returning companions? How are they gonna explain their level drain?

 

If they were at the keep at the time, then it should be fairly easy to explain. "Oh, hey we came to visit, what's u... OH MY GOD WHAT IS THE STATUE DOING?!"

 

That's the only logical explanation I came up with as well. There is another - Eothas level drained the whole of Dyrwood but that would be way too stupid and mean, and everything we did in PoE1 will be obsolete. In any case Eder should be pissed off:)

 

 

In one of the my playthrough, there isn't much left in the Dyrwood to soul drain...

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Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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I always hated prestige classes because, rather than expanding choices as the advocates contended, they limit the player through entirely mechanical means.

 

I think that's very true and I agree, but I think equating subclasses and PrCs is a bit assumptive.

 

Josh Sawyer specifically compared them to Kits in AD&D 2E, which were far less problematic and limiting than PrCs in 3E. We'll see, of course.

 

I'll be pretty surprised if people importing characters don't gain some kind of benefit, too.

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