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Capitalism threatens democracy; or, why inequality is a problem


Ben No.3

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A topic of huge importance. Quite fittingly, while I started to read Piketty, the Guardian published an article of which the following exert belongs to:

 

Last year, Oxfam said the world’s 62 richest billionaires were as wealthy as half the world’s population. However, the number has dropped to eight in 2017 because new information shows that poverty in China and India is worse than previously thought, making the bottom 50% even worse off and widening the gap between rich and poor.

The full thing: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/16/worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50?openedFrom=todaywidget&campaign_id=A100&articleList=worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50,pound-falls-lowest-level-since-october-flash-crash-fears-britain,donald-trump-condemns-russia-vladimir-putin-syria-michael-gove-a7528876.html,ms-and-swedish-supermarkets-ditch-sticky-labels-for-natural-branding

 

Now this obviously is a quite shockinv figure. Me personally I find it simply obscene. It is beyond ridiculous, and I think it shouts for reforms. Now obviously tackling global inequality isn't particularly easy, thus I'm taking it to this beautiful board.

 

So what do you think? Should something be done, and if so what, or is this not worrying at all?

Edited by Ben No.3
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Everybody knows the deal is rotten

Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton

For your ribbons and bows

And everybody knows

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I agree with you, and I'd like to see a revolution, but it will not happen; As soon as anything moves out of the domain of facebook people nowadays lose motivation.

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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A topic of huge importance. Quite fittingly, while I started to read Piketty, the Guardian published an article of which the following exert belongs to:

 

Last year, Oxfam said the world’s 62 richest billionaires were as wealthy as half the world’s population. However, the number has dropped to eight in 2017 because new information shows that poverty in China and India is worse than previously thought, making the bottom 50% even worse off and widening the gap between rich and poor.

The full thing: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/16/worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50?openedFrom=todaywidget&campaign_id=A100&articleList=worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50,pound-falls-lowest-level-since-october-flash-crash-fears-britain,donald-trump-condemns-russia-vladimir-putin-syria-michael-gove-a7528876.html,ms-and-swedish-supermarkets-ditch-sticky-labels-for-natural-branding

 

Now this obviously is a quite shockinv figure. Me personally I find it simply obscene. It is beyond ridiculous, and I think it shouts for reforms. Now obviously tackling global inequality isn't particularly easy, thus I'm taking it to this beautiful board.

 

So what do you think? Should something be done, and if so what, or is this not worrying at all?

 

 

I agree with you, and I'd like to see a revolution, but it will not happen; As soon as anything moves out of the domain of facebook people nowadays lose motivation.

Its a frustrating, divisive and unhelpful report. We have been debating  this in SA since its launch, the people from Oxfam discuss the report and there comments are basically anti-Capitalist and full of pseudo-economic suggestions

 

They offer no real solutions but diatribe against the private sector and globalisation   

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Something absolutely needs to be done about this situation and a fantastic starting point would be for one of these eight rat bastards to redistribute some of their wealth to me for . Now I couldnt retire on 1 million, but Im not greedy either, so if one of them would be so kind as to cut me a check for say...10 million, I'll promtply disappear in a cloud of smoke, never to experience the cruel hardships of earning a living again.

 

Aside, I find this mind blowing (per papa Google):

 

China and India together account for 36.41% of total world population 7,243,784,121. Among Asian countries combine share of both country is 61.07%.

 

Man, its going to suck to live on your side of the planet in ~50 years.

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A topic of huge importance. Quite fittingly, while I started to read Piketty, the Guardian published an article of which the following exert belongs to:

 

Last year, Oxfam said the world’s 62 richest billionaires were as wealthy as half the world’s population. However, the number has dropped to eight in 2017 because new information shows that poverty in China and India is worse than previously thought, making the bottom 50% even worse off and widening the gap between rich and poor.

The full thing: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/16/worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50?openedFrom=todaywidget&campaign_id=A100&articleList=worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50,pound-falls-lowest-level-since-october-flash-crash-fears-britain,donald-trump-condemns-russia-vladimir-putin-syria-michael-gove-a7528876.html,ms-and-swedish-supermarkets-ditch-sticky-labels-for-natural-branding

 

Now this obviously is a quite shockinv figure. Me personally I find it simply obscene. It is beyond ridiculous, and I think it shouts for reforms. Now obviously tackling global inequality isn't particularly easy, thus I'm taking it to this beautiful board.

 

So what do you think? Should something be done, and if so what, or is this not worrying at all?

I agree with you, and I'd like to see a revolution, but it will not happen; As soon as anything moves out of the domain of facebook people nowadays lose motivation.

Its a frustrating, divisive and unhelpful report. We have been debating this in SA since its launch, the people from Oxfam discuss the report and there comments are basically anti-Capitalist and full of pseudo-economic suggestions

 

They offer no real solutions but diatribe against the private sector and globalisation

Well what about you? What do you think of the problem itself, leave aside oxfam.

Everybody knows the deal is rotten

Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton

For your ribbons and bows

And everybody knows

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A topic of huge importance. Quite fittingly, while I started to read Piketty, the Guardian published an article of which the following exert belongs to:

Last year, Oxfam said the world’s 62 richest billionaires were as wealthy as half the world’s population. However, the number has dropped to eight in 2017 because new information shows that poverty in China and India is worse than previously thought, making the bottom 50% even worse off and widening the gap between rich and poor.

The full thing: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/16/worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50?openedFrom=todaywidget&campaign_id=A100&articleList=worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50,pound-falls-lowest-level-since-october-flash-crash-fears-britain,donald-trump-condemns-russia-vladimir-putin-syria-michael-gove-a7528876.html,ms-and-swedish-supermarkets-ditch-sticky-labels-for-natural-branding

 

Now this obviously is a quite shockinv figure. Me personally I find it simply obscene. It is beyond ridiculous, and I think it shouts for reforms. Now obviously tackling global inequality isn't particularly easy, thus I'm taking it to this beautiful board.

 

So what do you think? Should something be done, and if so what, or is this not worrying at all?

I agree with you, and I'd like to see a revolution, but it will not happen; As soon as anything moves out of the domain of facebook people nowadays lose motivation.

Its a frustrating, divisive and unhelpful report. We have been debating this in SA since its launch, the people from Oxfam discuss the report and there comments are basically anti-Capitalist and full of pseudo-economic suggestions

 

They offer no real solutions but diatribe against the private sector and globalisation

Well what about you? What do you think of the problem itself, leave aside oxfam.

 

The entire Oxfam report is designed in a way to just create consternation and negativity 

 

Ignore it, we should be focusing on the positive and how many people have been pulled out of extreme poverty. These are real statistics that are meaningful

 

  • The millenium development goals set in 2000 around reducing extreme poverty have been met in 2015

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/jul/06/united-nations-extreme-poverty-millennium-development-goals

 

  • Since 1990 there are 61 % of the total number of people pulled out of extreme poverty 

http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/200-million-people-lifted-from-extreme-poverty-in-two-year-record-low/

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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My friend, we are running towards a situation where returns>growth. Combined with the extreme accumulation of wealth in private hand, that is a problem

Everybody knows the deal is rotten

Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton

For your ribbons and bows

And everybody knows

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The entire Oxfam report is designed in a way to just create consternation and negativity 

 

Ignore it, we should be focusing on the positive and how many people have been pulled out of extreme poverty. These are real statistics that are meaningful

I'm sure thinking positive thoughts will feed a thousand chinese families. Look, I'm the first to admit people can focus on the negative and forget the good but the more research into poverty the easier it will be to find the critical areas to solve, and sweeping comparative statements just mean that information will reach further. You're not even getting your statistics "that matter" from someone who researched how much better people are doing. You're getting them from someone who researched how many people are still in deep **** and said "gosh, it's bad but still, it's not as bad as last time". Being well-intentioned and positive doesn't always help - ever heard stories of well-intentioned and positive people holding clothes drives for people in third world countries, effectively neutering the local tailoring industries and leaving their economies worse off in the long run? You need to diagnose the disease before starting treatment because otherwise you're treating cancer with aspirine.

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We should give poor people self-help books and watch as they all become billionaires through positive thinking.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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We should give poor people self-help books and watch as they all become billionaires through positive thinking.

Yes self-help books are always a good idea or books on exotic holiday destinations always help to motivate the poor to pull themselves out of poverty ....you need to give the poor something to aspire to 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Man, its going to suck to live on your side of the planet in ~50 years.

gonna get bad much sooner than 50 years. as enormous as is china's population, it is artificial low. disproportionate male and increasing old. if you think the west has problems with an aging population, wait and see what happens in a decade or two in china.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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We should give poor people self-help books and watch as they all become billionaires through positive thinking.

Yes self-help books are always a good idea or books on exotic holiday destinations always help to motivate the poor to pull themselves out of poverty ....you need to give the poor something to aspire to 

 

 

If you ever end up broke, sick, or otherwise in need, I'll be sure to toss a self-help book at your hat and say something infuriatingly closeminded as well.

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We should give poor people self-help books and watch as they all become billionaires through positive thinking.

Yes self-help books are always a good idea or books on exotic holiday destinations always help to motivate the poor to pull themselves out of poverty ....you need to give the poor something to aspire to 

 

 

If you ever end up broke, sick, or otherwise in need, I'll be sure to toss a self-help book at your hat and say something infuriatingly closeminded as well.

 

Geeeeeeeeez, feel the love

 

This is about positive ideas and making people feel they can get out of poverty ..if you throw a book at someone you may unintentionally hurt them ? 

 

But dont worry about me, I have a trust fund  :teehee:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Yes, poverty will be eliminated as soon as poor people visit a resort and see how great it is. I'm sure their trust funds will cover it, if not they can always get a small loan of a million dollars from their parents.

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"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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The entire Oxfam report is designed in a way to just create consternation and negativity 

 

Ignore it, we should be focusing on the positive and how many people have been pulled out of extreme poverty. These are real statistics that are meaningful

I'm sure thinking positive thoughts will feed a thousand chinese families. Look, I'm the first to admit people can focus on the negative and forget the good but the more research into poverty the easier it will be to find the critical areas to solve, and sweeping comparative statements just mean that information will reach further. You're not even getting your statistics "that matter" from someone who researched how much better people are doing. You're getting them from someone who researched how many people are still in deep **** and said "gosh, it's bad but still, it's not as bad as last time". Being well-intentioned and positive doesn't always help - ever heard stories of well-intentioned and positive people holding clothes drives for people in third world countries, effectively neutering the local tailoring industries and leaving their economies worse off in the long run? You need to diagnose the disease before starting treatment because otherwise you're treating cancer with aspirine.

 

Yes I dont dispute much of what you say but at least my data paints a much better and improving picture of global poverty

 

The Oxfam report presents the facts is a negative and counterintuitive way and they dont offer any real solution that can be realistically implemented. For example they say " Oxfam called for fundamental change to ensure that economies worked for everyone, not just “a privileged few”

 

These reports of how to " address poverty and inequality "  are generally the same, they highlight all this inequality and tell other people. corporations or countries  what they need to do....its easy to tell other people how to fix global problems when you not involved or need to make the sacrifice  :geek:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Yes, poverty will be eliminated as soon as poor people visit a resort and see how great it is. I'm sure their trust funds will cover it, if not they can always get a small loan of a million dollars from their parents.

KP it seems like you being negative ? You will never address global  poverty if thats your attitude 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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First you have to understand money. In the age of central banking, money is debt created by decree (fiat). It is validated only by The State's ability to extract tangible wealth from its prisoners.

Those with close political and personal ties to the central banks (banks, oligarchs, politicians) get the benefit of accessing this money before it circulates and debases. In the case of the USA where the Federal Funds Rate is set to 0.25%, this is essentially giving away free money to the connected. They take this hot money, buy assets which then nominally appreciate (stocks, real estate, commodities) because the very action of spending this money bids up the price. By the time the money gets down to we plebeians, the inflationary effects have already occurred and the currency now buys less.

This is why you can no longer purchase a US gallon of gasoline for ) $0.25, yet, a silver quarter has a face value of $0.25 despite having a market value nearly equivalent to a US gallon of gasoline.

The insanely wealthy among us have the early access to this money. They park it in assets before the depreciation occurs. Compound this with rent seeking behavior from The State, and that's why Jamie Dimon "is richer than you". Mundanes like you and me cannot compete with this. Central banking is the dark heart of all severe and unnatural wealth imbalances across the entire globe. That's the very nature of central banking, it's quiet purpose.

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Now obviously tackling global inequality isn't particularly easy, thus I'm taking it to this beautiful board.

Populated with conservatives, libertarians, crypto-fascists and a cartoonish personification of neo-liberalism.

 

Oh Baro.....you make me laugh  :lol:  :lol:

 

 

What a way to end the notion of the " beautiful board  "

 

Where do I fit into your definitions in your opinion?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Globalization has it's winners and losers, we knew that for quite a while.

Everyone can see the problem but if the process is inevitable then we have no practical solutions.

I guess we will have to see if Brexit and Trump can turn back the economic clock.

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The entire Oxfam report is designed in a way to just create consternation and negativity 

 

Ignore it, we should be focusing on the positive and how many people have been pulled out of extreme poverty. These are real statistics that are meaningful

I'm sure thinking positive thoughts will feed a thousand chinese families. Look, I'm the first to admit people can focus on the negative and forget the good but the more research into poverty the easier it will be to find the critical areas to solve, and sweeping comparative statements just mean that information will reach further. You're not even getting your statistics "that matter" from someone who researched how much better people are doing. You're getting them from someone who researched how many people are still in deep **** and said "gosh, it's bad but still, it's not as bad as last time". Being well-intentioned and positive doesn't always help - ever heard stories of well-intentioned and positive people holding clothes drives for people in third world countries, effectively neutering the local tailoring industries and leaving their economies worse off in the long run? You need to diagnose the disease before starting treatment because otherwise you're treating cancer with aspirine.

 

Yes I dont dispute much of what you say but at least my data paints a much better and improving picture of global poverty

 

The Oxfam report presents the facts is a negative and counterintuitive way and they dont offer any real solution that can be realistically implemented. For example they say " Oxfam called for fundamental change to ensure that economies worked for everyone, not just “a privileged few”

 

These reports of how to " address poverty and inequality "  are generally the same, they highlight all this inequality and tell other people. corporations or countries  what they need to do....its easy to tell other people how to fix global problems when you not involved or need to make the sacrifice  :geek:

 

 

So because they came with data they also need to offer the solutions? I find this an odd requirement. Statistics researchers are usually not good at implementing solutions, that's not what they do.

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First of all overwhelming majority of billionaires are self made not inherited.

 

Yup. And I've got this here bridge you might be interested in.

 

 

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ufe/legacy_url/410/BornOnThirdBase_2012.pdf

 

http://www.lse.ac.uk/economicHistory/workingPapers/2013/WP181.pdf

 

http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/assets/documents/abs_mobility_summary.pdf

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- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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