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Mich-666

Plea to Obsidian - please let us buy PoE2 through your backer portal

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Really, for several reasons, I'm not fan of the Fig, and I certainly will not back up Pillars 2 there. But I definitely want to support you.

I would very much welcome if there was an alternative to buy it here, directly from Obsidian site, the same way as we were confirming and buying addons for PoE before.

 

You already have http://eternity.obsidian.net/ site for it so why not use it? Also, we already have our accounts set here.

Would that be possible, pretty please?

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you can buy it wherever you want after the release :)

 

The thing is it seems the developement will go for another year or so (otherwise they won't be needing crowdfund in the first place) and they probably need the money right now. Also, every distributor - be it steam or gog - takes its percentage cut while they could take all the money from donations here.

And why to back it elsewhere when they would direct you here to manage your pledges here anyway? I also like the idea of buying those addons directly.

 

They already have the platform built here so it's only the question of setting it up.

Edited by Mich-666

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I do not understand the logic of "not liking" certain types of crowdfunding platforms?

 

Obsidian certainly looked at the options on crowdfunding platforms and choose Fig surely because it is better for them. And that is really all I need to know.

 

You will back it or not. It is your choice.

 

I am so happy that I can be a part of this campaign. I like Obsidian so much for the people that work there and great games that they produce which I adore to play. And except few others there is no one in the game industry right now that are making this type of games.

 

I really don't know what kind of crowdfunding nonsense they would have to come to in order for me not to support them....

 

I am shooting for the early bird CE edition :)

 

I hope you will choose to support them.

 

Best,

AA

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The only thing I like about crowdfunding is that I get to buy the games cheaper than when they are released. Other than that, I don't feel proud or anything since I didn't do much other than buying a game, especially if there is no way to know for sure that they really need the money or they just don't want to risk their own. Also, crowdfunding means, in an extent, whiny demanding backers get to rant for this and that, sometimes forcing devs to make things to just please them. I'd rather play the game as the developers envisioned it without external fan pressure.

Edited by Sedrefilos

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Obsidian certainly looked at the options on crowdfunding platforms and choose Fig surely because it is better for them.

Well that and Feargus is one of the people behind Fig. Was there ever any real chance if PoE2 went crowdfunding that it wouldn't be on Fig?

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You'll probably be able to back the game via Paypal before the Fig campaign is even over.

I hope so. Or after they actually reach the set goal. Would prefer the backer portal here but literally anything is better than Fig.

 

 

 

What is wrong with Fig?

 

Its SHADY! and everyone knows this much I guess cos no one explains sh**.

 

Have you ever read their Terms of Use? (or SEC fillings, the most important part almost noone actually read?) I actually did. Aside from the fact that Tim Shaffer is member of the board for Loose Tooth Industries, Inc. who owns the site (yes, even Feargus or Brian Fargo are there but still) you also need to acknowledge the fact that you are basically paying the money to whole separate (sister) company - Fig Publishing, Inc. and the shady thing here is that noone really knows how the money transfer between those two companies actually works.

 

Which means you are basically sending your money to Fig rather than to the game company and it is the Fig who uses the money however it pleases to fund the game afterwards, each game has it own contract. So there is absolutely no guarantee that all the money goes to the actual developer.

 

The interesting part here is that just one week ago FIg Publishing got nearly 8 million boost from Spark Capital and Greycroft, the former being the owner of Twitter or Tumblr for example. The company has also some strange ties to Double Fine studio itself, including paying some strange compensation fees.

 

All this should be perfectly enough to explain why I have no faith in such company and why I don't want to entrust any of my money to them.

Also, they have this explicitly stated this:

 

Fig is not an investment advisor, broker-dealer or crowdfunding portal and does not engage in any activities requiring any such registration.

 

Pretty funny, eh? It's almost like the portal is actally not meant for any kind of crowdfunding in the first place.

And it's very obvious they are putting PoE on the Fig just to promote the platform.

 

But I orginally I didn't wanted to delve deep into this mess of why I don't belive in anything Tim Shafer has his nose in, I jusk kindly asked for an option to pre-purchase the game here, that's all.

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Anyone willing to expand on reasons they don't like Fig?

 

 

Edit:  Erp.  Nevermind.  Looks like Mich-666 did just that...  Any other reasons?

Edited by Ethics Gradient

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Anyone willing to expand on reasons they don't like Fig?

 

It's a Gamergate thing, basically.

 

There's no reason for a normal backer not to use Fig. It's the developers who should be worried about it, they're the ones who end up with investors they have to pay back. And ironically normal backers avoiding Fig only makes them more beholden to said investors, so the whole anti-Fig thing is kind of self-destructive.

Edited by Infinitron
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Anyone willing to expand on reasons they don't like Fig?

 

It's a Gamergate thing, basically.

 

There's no reason for a normal backer not to use Fig. It's the developers who should be worried about it, they're the ones who end up with investors they have to pay back. And ironically normal backers avoiding Fig only makes them more beholden to said investors, so the anti-Fig thing is kind of self-destructive.

 

Got it.  Thanks!

 

As far as I can tell, the arguments against seem to amount to: "I don't like it because it is different" instead of any particularly substantial reason.  Is there any evidence to suggest that the funding mechanism doesn't work as advertised?

Edited by Ethics Gradient

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Looking at how the investment works for one of the games still up for backing, it appears that 40% of sales receipts go to the investors until 1.36x the amount of investment is earned, then drops to 20% until 3x the amount is reached.  That's kinda how I figured it would work, though 40% seems rather high to me, but that might differ from game to game.  Could only look at the terms of investment by going into a game that was still open to investment.

 

EDIT: Just checked another game and it does look like the share of the profits does vary from game to game.  The other game still open to investment is at 30% for the first part and 10% till the 3x point.

Edited by FlintlockJazz

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Found this on reddit when discussing the crowdfunding platform: https://youtu.be/hFX0f_YUn1I

 

Personally I only knew that Fig exists and it looked like any other crowdfunding platform to me. I'd sort of expect Obsidian would have better conditions and less fees on Fig,

at the same time Fig seems to be a lot more controversial and it seems like some people won't back the game just because of Fig.

 

Anyway: seems like different backing options would be nice (so that people who don't like Fig could join), but maybe at the same time it could lower the total collected on Fig,

which could make the game seem less desirable..? Donno. It's possible that for the majority of backers this won't be an issue.

 

Personally, I would choose whatever platform offers the best conditions for Obsidian, I think that the fewer people leech of the donation the better. That being said I have no idea which platform would be the best for this.

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Be aware of Fig and especially Inxile. They did not fulfill their pledge on Italian localization as they gave a middle finger to the backers. Those who help crowd-funded them (there's no console version being mentioned in the Kickstarter at all) but then out of nowhere consoles version! and PC version delay for many months with no communications to the backers. And that's not all.. read many complaints about those who backed the Collectors Edition paid $125 or something.. and now the consoles version which basical $80+ (cheaper) and even comes with exclusives statues, locket, etc. that will not be available for those backers. Ok it doesnt matter if it's not given to the backers as InXile fulfill and deliver all the contents of the original CE. But holy cow! They are exclusives and you cannot purchase it!. facepalm.. 

 

So moral of the story.. If Obsidian side with InXile.. this really does not bodes well. I'm skeptical about this. But i love Obsidian.. I may be pledging too (even if it's Fig).. but you loose some brownie points. Basically i'm not from the US and i have to pay 5 times the currency in my country just to support Obsidian. So dont screw me up please.

Edited by Archaven

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PoE sold outstandingly well (700K-800K copies?) for a PC-exclusive niche title, so there'd be no reason to switch to multi-platform for PoE2, and likely sacrificing cRPG core aspects in the process.

And then there's real-time-with-pause-combat, which is a really strong, almost bullet-proof argument against a console port.

 

But yeah, what inXile did to TTON's backers was a pretty ****ty move, especially the "surprise MFers, we'll have one consolized version for all platforms" announcement.

Glad I didn't back.

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Also, they have this explicitly stated this:

 

Fig is not an investment advisor, broker-dealer or crowdfunding portal and does not engage in any activities requiring any such registration.

 

Pretty funny, eh? It's almost like the portal is actally not meant for any kind of crowdfunding in the first place.

 

The disclaimer as currently written reads "YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT NEITHER LOOSE TOOTH INDUSTRIES, INC. NOR FIG IS A REGISTERED BROKER-DEALER, FINANCIAL ADVISOR OR FUNDING PORTAL AND NEITHER LOOSE TOOTH INDUSTRIES, INC. NOR FIG ENGAGES IN ANY CONDUCT THAT WOULD REQUIRE SUCH REGISTRATION. NEITHER LOOSE TOOTH INDUSTRIES, INC. NOR FIG PROVIDES INVESTMENT ADVICE OR MAKES RECOMMENDATIONS."

 

All this does is state that what Fig.com is doing isn't advising, selling or crowdfunding the purchase of securities as defined by the SEC and therefore does not have to register with the SEC (who regulate the exchange of securities - ie a certificate or other financial instrument that can be sold or traded - like stocks and bonds).

 

SEC on Funding Portals, for example:

 

 

Who is required to register as a funding portal?

You are required to register – either as a broker-dealer under Section 15(b) of the Exchange Act or as a funding portal pursuant to Section 4A(a)(1) of the Securities Act – if you wish to act as an intermediary in a transaction involving the offer or sale of securities in reliance on Section 4(a)(6) of the Securities Act.

If you are a sole proprietorship, partnership, corporation, limited liability company, or other organized entity that is not registered (and does not intend to register) as a broker-dealer but wishes to act as an intermediary in crowdfunding transactions, you must register with the SEC on Form Funding Portal.

A registered funding portal is prohibited from:

  • Offering investment advice or recommendations;
  • Soliciting purchases, sales or offers to buy the securities displayed on its platform;
  • Compensating employees, agents, or other persons for such solicitation or based on the sale of securities displayed or referenced on its platform; or
  • Holding, managing, possessing, or handling investor funds or securities.
Therefore, if you engage in, or plan to engage in, any of these activities, and wish to act as an intermediary in crowdfunding transactions you must register as a broker-dealer rather than as a funding portal.

 

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Be aware of Fig and especially Inxile. They did not fulfill their pledge on Italian localization as they gave a middle finger to the backers. Those who help crowd-funded them (there's no console version being mentioned in the Kickstarter at all) but then out of nowhere consoles version! and PC version delay for many months with no communications to the backers. And that's not all.. read many complaints about those who backed the Collectors Edition paid $125 or something.. and now the consoles version which basical $80+ (cheaper) and even comes with exclusives statues, locket, etc. that will not be available for those backers. Ok it doesnt matter if it's not given to the backers as InXile fulfill and deliver all the contents of the original CE. But holy cow! They are exclusives and you cannot purchase it!. facepalm.. 

 

So moral of the story.. If Obsidian side with InXile.. this really does not bodes well. I'm skeptical about this. But i love Obsidian.. I may be pledging too (even if it's Fig).. but you loose some brownie points. Basically i'm not from the US and i have to pay 5 times the currency in my country just to support Obsidian. So dont screw me up please.

 

Obsidian isn't siding with InXile even if they use Fig. Feargus is one of the people behind Fig.

InXile is responsible for their promises, not Fig and neither wasn't Kickstarter. So because InXile doesn't deliver, doesn't mean all companies using Fig won't deliver. Kickstarter has had way more companies failing to deliver on their promises.

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Hate the living, love the dead.

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Be aware of Fig and especially Inxile. They did not fulfill their pledge on Italian localization as they gave a middle finger to the backers. Those who help crowd-funded them (there's no console version being mentioned in the Kickstarter at all) but then out of nowhere consoles version! and PC version delay for many months with no communications to the backers. And that's not all.. read many complaints about those who backed the Collectors Edition paid $125 or something.. and now the consoles version which basical $80+ (cheaper) and even comes with exclusives statues, locket, etc. that will not be available for those backers. Ok it doesnt matter if it's not given to the backers as InXile fulfill and deliver all the contents of the original CE. But holy cow! They are exclusives and you cannot purchase it!. facepalm.. 

 

So moral of the story.. If Obsidian side with InXile.. this really does not bodes well. I'm skeptical about this. But i love Obsidian.. I may be pledging too (even if it's Fig).. but you loose some brownie points. Basically i'm not from the US and i have to pay 5 times the currency in my country just to support Obsidian. So dont screw me up please.

 

Obsidian isn't siding with InXile even if they use Fig. Feargus is one of the people behind Fig.

InXile is responsible for their promises, not Fig and neither wasn't Kickstarter. So because InXile doesn't deliver, doesn't mean all companies using Fig won't deliver. Kickstarter has had way more companies failing to deliver on their promises.

 

 

completely agree. And all the "shady" arguments are just nonsense o_O developer signs a contract with Fig and the details do not concern you. You as a backer fund developer and get a reward. And it's only up to developer to deliver the final product. For you as a consumer there is no difference AT ALL what platform is being used, KS or Fig or IGG or whatever.

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completely agree. And all the "shady" arguments are just nonsense o_O developer signs a contract with Fig and the details do not concern you. You as a backer fund developer and get a reward. And it's only up to developer to deliver the final product. For you as a consumer there is no difference AT ALL what platform is being used, KS or Fig or IGG or whatever.

 

 

That's how I'm feeling about it.  I'm not a venture capitalist.  The arcane details behind the funding don't really matter at the order-of-magnitude at which I will contribute.

 

I'm just offering up my $50 pledge (or whatever), to show support of the game, and get a copy whenever it is done.  Anti-hype aside, I'm not seeing how Fig and Obsidian won't deliver on that.

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PoE sold outstandingly well (700K-800K copies?) for a PC-exclusive niche title, so there'd be no reason to switch to multi-platform for PoE2, and likely sacrificing cRPG core aspects in the process.

And then there's real-time-with-pause-combat, which is a really strong, almost bullet-proof argument against a console port.

 

But yeah, what inXile did to TTON's backers was a pretty ****ty move, especially the "surprise MFers, we'll have one consolized version for all platforms" announcement.

Glad I didn't back.

 

Steamspy shows 1M the other day? Now it shows 941K though. Not sure why the figure shrunk. Or was i mistaken? Hmm.

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PoE sold outstandingly well (700K-800K copies?) for a PC-exclusive niche title, so there'd be no reason to switch to multi-platform for PoE2, and likely sacrificing cRPG core aspects in the process.

And then there's real-time-with-pause-combat, which is a really strong, almost bullet-proof argument against a console port.

 

But yeah, what inXile did to TTON's backers was a pretty ****ty move, especially the "surprise MFers, we'll have one consolized version for all platforms" announcement.

Glad I didn't back.

 

Steamspy shows 1M the other day? Now it shows 941K though. Not sure why the figure shrunk. Or was i mistaken? Hmm.

 

 

1M?!

Even more than I expected then.

 

@Aarik D or any other Obsidian representative:

 

ETA on an alternative (PayPal) to pledging through fig?

Pretty sure there are many Yurp-folks that want to chip in again.

Edited by desel

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I would like to be able to back on the backersite aswell, already have a kickstarter and indiegogo account, really cant be bothered with a third one for the same thing. Same reason i didnt back Wasteland 3.

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