Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Ideal lenght for cRPG?

cRPG

  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#21
Hurlshot

Hurlshot

    Obsidian Order Hockey Puck

  • Members
  • 9073 posts
  • Location:Gilroy, CA
  • Xbox Gamertag:Hurlshot
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

I don't agree that games are shorter now than they were in the past. Particularly with RPG's, it just depends on how you play them. Deus Ex was about 30 hours, which is about the same as the original. Tyranny is a bit shorter but Pillars of Eternity quite long, so it's not like there is a pattern here. Witcher 3 seems to be way longer than the original, etc.

 

Wait, is New Vegas an old game to you Quillon?

 

Games like Fallout and Baldur's Gate could be finished extremely fast if you knew what you were doing.



#22
Fenixp

Fenixp

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2345 posts
  • Steam:Fenixp
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Games like Fallout and Baldur's Gate could be finished extremely fast if you knew what you were doing.

The original Fallout was a fairly brief game even when you didn't know what you were doing and I still think it was a lot better for it - how long to beat lists average of 30 hours for completionists. For me, Fallout 1 vs Fallout 2 is the textbook example of why do I prefer shorter games. Fallout 1 told the story it needed to for it to build its world and deliver its main storyline, whereas Fallout 2 was just full of more or less unrelated... Stuff.
  • Majek and Lexx like this

#23
evilcat

evilcat

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 909 posts

Telling anyone "If you like short games go for cod noob" is both uncivil and untrue. Since there is pleanty of 30h games which are quite good, like: KOTOR, Shadowrun Dragonfall, Mass Effect 2. Even Fallout 1

Tyranny was shorter than PoE, but it also is the beast which tries to allow a very different stories in one game, and making storyline from pieces, which is something. (not being able to go to tower by force is annoying)

 

There is also money factor, crpg could sell in 1mln copies (which already is good number, and not all can count for that), assuming 45$ price tag minus fees and support cost, That determines how much you can do. And at some point there is a choice of quality vs quantity.


Edited by evilcat, 16 January 2017 - 10:21 PM.


#24
Mamoulian War

Mamoulian War

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3774 posts
  • Location:Slovakia
  • PSN Portable ID:mamoulianfh
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer

I prefer long games, as long as the game's good and keeps me entertained the longer the better. That said there are games in all sorts of lengths and if you want shorter games there are much more options than the handful of "big rpgs" every year. f.i. there wasn't a lengthy rpg(60-100hrs) release in 2016 if I'm not mistaken. So demanding shorter games from CDPR, OBS, Beth etc. seems greedy to me.

This might be a point of debate between the younger generation and the older one. Once you have a 9 to 5, a family and all the other obligations, your time becomes very valuable. Rather than play a 60 hour game that's been padded with grinding and meaningless collectibles, I would much rather have a shorter game that really delivers. Since it is very likely that I won't finish the former but will definitively enjoy the latter.

Well I'll have all of that, and still I was able to put about 150 hours in Tales of Zestiria and about 90 hours in Star Ocean 5 in last 2 months of last year. Star Ocean had kind of dull but still I had a lot of fun playing it. And besides these two, I have also spent as much time with Demon's Souls, Soulcalibur V and Europa Universalis games. All in all I have finished 16 games in 2016.

#25
Quillon

Quillon

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 639 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Telling anyone "If you like short games go for cod noob" is both uncivil and untrue. 

 

 

Just saying, if you(anyone) don't have the time anymore and can't finish a rather lengthy RPG therefor won't be able to enjoy it; you should try other genres since they tend to be shorter than RPGs: I didn't/wouldn't call anyone a noob cos of playing cod, they say its campaign's very good this year, goes for BF also and Hıtman is also pretty well received. I don't like telltale games personally but especially game developers love it for some reason etc. Or don't play any of these but just don't try to make few big games smaller just cos you can't enjoy it like you used to. I mean if you please.

 

 

Wait, is New Vegas an old game to you Quillon?

 

Why? It could be considered old maybe but I usually can't retroplay "old" games, so I don't consider it old, Planning to playing it again soon. When there'll be projects like "New Vegas in F4's engine" like there is for Morrowind atm it might be truly old.


Edited by Quillon, 17 January 2017 - 03:39 AM.


#26
Hurlshot

Hurlshot

    Obsidian Order Hockey Puck

  • Members
  • 9073 posts
  • Location:Gilroy, CA
  • Xbox Gamertag:Hurlshot
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

You had used New Vegas as an example of a good lengthy game, so I was curious if you thought it was old or new. I would agree that it is a newer game. I'm just not sure how that helps your statement that old games were longer than new ones. You could argue that Fallout 4 is longer and has more to do than any Fallout game before it. Granted it is rubbish, but that's a different argument. :p



#27
Quillon

Quillon

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 639 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

I'm just not sure how that helps your statement that old games were longer than new ones.


That's not my statement. I said there are more shorter games than longer games nowadays. With increased cost and time to make those big lengty RPGs we see them less often these days.

If I had claimed that old games were longer tho why would I argue F4s being lengthier than previous ones? It shouldn't be longer than NV anyway if we'are not counting "infinite quests".

#28
Elerond

Elerond

    One of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 2649 posts
  • Location:Finland
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Ideal length depends on what game focuses on and what kind mechanics it uses.

 

Open world exploration RPGs like Bethesda's The Elder Scrolls and Fallout series or Bioware's Dragon Age 3 you need much longer length as in those games focus in exploring world and finding content more than anything else. So in them play time tends to be much longer than in other games because of that exploration, but they are games that have very low replayability percent.

 

In action oriented story driven games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age 2 or Alpha Protocol ideal play time is much shorter, because in them focus is in story and player choices how to forward the story. 

 

Hardest RPG genre to determine ideal playtime is what I call balanced RPGs like Baldur's Gates, Fallout 1&2, Dragon Age: Origins, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2 and Divinity Original Sin. Because they have that time consuming exploration, character building, but they also have heavy focus on narrative and player choices. In such games focusing in one aspect over others usually makes game become dull.



#29
Keyrock

Keyrock

    Obsidian Order Rodent Tamer

  • Members
  • 7457 posts
  • Location:The Queen City
  • Steam:Keyrock
  • PSN Portable ID:Unfrozen_Keyrock
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer

Rather than play a 60 hour game that's been padded with grinding and meaningless collectibles, I would much rather have a shorter game that really delivers. Since it is very likely that I won't finish the former but will definitively enjoy the latter.


What you're saying here is that you prefer a good game before a bad game. Game length is irrelevant in this argument.

Instead, try this: which would you prefer? A 60 hour game that really delivers or a 10 hour game that really delivers?
There's more to it than that, though. Some of us like variety. Even a game that's really good throughout can become tiring after a while and I just want to experience something different. Now, I can put a long game on hold with the intention of coming back to it after playing something else, but often times I simply won't. I'll give you an example: When I played AssCreed 4, a game I have a ton of praise for, I had to take a break after some 30 hours. It's a testament to how much I enjoyed the game that I lasted that long before needing a break and I did return to it and finish it eventually, but there are definitely times I don't return to a game. Rare is the game that can keep my attention and not burn me out past 25 or 30 hours.
  • Hurlshot likes this

#30
Undecaf

Undecaf

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 761 posts
  • Location:Finland
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
Between 30-60 hours is about ideal for me depending on the game type. Some games benefit from shorter length while others from longer, but generally under 30 tends to feel short and over 60 starts to drag on.

DX:HR was a bit on the short side with its 20-or so-hour campaign, while with New Vegas (and other similiar games) I start to feel compelled to wrap things up around the 60-hour mark (instinctively, I don't keep track on how long I've played).
  • evilcat likes this

#31
Oerwinde

Oerwinde

    Treacherous Decepticon

  • Members
  • 2912 posts
  • Location:Cybertron, hidden in an extradimensional space in Canada.
  • Xbox Gamertag:Oerwinde (also Playstation Network ID)
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Depends on the game. Stick of Truth felt like about the right length despite being like 10 hours long. I think Tyranny and PoE were about the same length, but I felt like Tyranny was a bit short, while PoE was a good length. I think for a CRPG 30 hours is good for the main campaign and a bit of side-questing, but if that can get pushed to 60 through sidequests I would be super happy.



#32
MaxQuest

MaxQuest

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2280 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Was wondering, what is your favorite lenght for crpg like Pillars or other Skyrim? Or maybe there is a big difference between Isometric and TPP?

 

My thoughs:

  • 30 hours is sufficient, to have enought story and gameplay, but not be fed up with. That is a lenght of KOTOR or Shadowrun Dragonfall (great games).
  • Even better if almost complete run takes 60 hours, but half of that is more or less optional, so we can play it our way. There are people who likes Dungeons, Boss fights, Wildneress, All text quests, collecting and so on.
  • Say no to time soakers, like excesive managing inventory and vendors, or long travel times (no fast travel)
  • Quality over quantity.
  • No MMO style. Just because MMO are popular and well advertised does mean it is good gameplay.
  • There is some potencial in post release support. Like adding Bounties or endless dungeon after release as free dlc.
  • Only 10-25% players finish game at all, so pushing for some enourmous lenght could be waste.
  • Expansions like WHite March are fair, since not not forcing to pay for content we dont wanna play is ok.

And You?

 

Personal preference for a game I enjoy is:

- 40 hours for main quest

- 80-100 hours for completionist run

 

And for expansions:

- 15-20 hours for main quest

- 20-40 hours for completionist run

 

So kind of mix between NWN Series, Witcher Series and PoE.


Edited by MaxQuest, 20 January 2017 - 02:48 AM.

  • Mamoulian War, kanisatha and LittleRose like this

#33
Raithe

Raithe

    Lurking Caped One of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 3311 posts
  • Location:Deepest, Darkest, South of England
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

I really don't think there's a one size fits all for this question.

It can really depend on the type and style of the main quest, the nature of the world you're exploring, the way side-quests are handled along with the way of exploring the world and the lore presented to you.

 

Too many different things can come together to make a good rpg feel drawn out or too short and missing depth.

 

Edit:

Also on consideration, one other aspect to complicate matters - A game can feel perfectly lengthy (or not) for your first playthrough, but then on later attempts at playing it, that perception can shift when you have to drag yourself through certain content to explore other areas.


Edited by Raithe, 20 January 2017 - 03:28 AM.


#34
evilcat

evilcat

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 909 posts

There is this page for beat times, interesting in some way.

https://howlongtobea...me.php?id=13434

 

There is also branching thing. Branching quests are cool since allow to play our way, but may result in perception of shorter gametime. Like Witcher 2 having significant different act 2, or Tyranny. In PoE that is Rodrick stronghold, which was nice quest, we could aproach it in different ways, but at once experience only 1 path.

 

Extreme example are grand strategies like civilization or europa universalis  which is more or less are the same game, but if you like it you may sink in for many hours.

 

There is also question how much gameplay game support, most activities in game may become boring. This is big plus for big games, that if we develop versalite gameplay we may as well make game potencially longer and slap bigger price tag on it.

 

There may be Bioware trauma, making KoToR MMO and Dragon Age Inqusition similar to MMO (or Assasins Creed) which was disappointing. Less roleplaying for rpg fans to enjoy, and Dragon Age gameplay isnt that interesting (Mass Effect gameplay is more responsive if you are into power shooters).

 

Bethesda probably have good idea of making main quest shorter (if you care about it) but having large potencial of exploration. Witcher 3 on the other hand is more 50:50 but at some point player may be borred with sailing over Skellige, escorting Dwarves, or going with another Sorceress into cave.


Edited by evilcat, 20 January 2017 - 04:03 AM.


#35
rjshae

rjshae

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 5055 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

I like a cRPG that can hold my interest. Otherwise it doesn't really matter how long it is.


  • ShadySands likes this

#36
Harry Easter

Harry Easter

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 240 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer

I would say ... 30-40 for the first time (realistically speaking it will be 50-60, if I don't know how to solve quests). In my experience the stories of those games have a good pacing and the fun comes from the replay-value.



#37
BrotherFerg

BrotherFerg

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 52 posts
  • Location:USA
I want between 100 and 200 hours. I don't wait around the computer all day for years for a game to come and complete it in a week. I want to feel like I spent atleast a significant portion of my life there.

#38
Lexx

Lexx

    Adventurer of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 3991 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

But if the game has 100 and 200 hours and turns out to be half a turd, will you still spend all that time on it?



#39
Hurlshot

Hurlshot

    Obsidian Order Hockey Puck

  • Members
  • 9073 posts
  • Location:Gilroy, CA
  • Xbox Gamertag:Hurlshot
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

I want between 100 and 200 hours. I don't wait around the computer all day for years for a game to come and complete it in a week. I want to feel like I spent atleast a significant portion of my life there.

 

Maybe don't do the bolded part. :p


  • Fenixp likes this

#40
BrotherFerg

BrotherFerg

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 52 posts
  • Location:USA

But if the game has 100 and 200 hours and turns out to be half a turd, will you still spend all that time on it?


Yes
  • Harry Easter likes this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: cRPG

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users