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Well, that was a shock.


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So, all excited about the release of AD6, I head straight to the store to buy the character alts (and support the devs with some more of my cash), and I see the full collection of alts is...C$80? Whaaa? That's three times more than I paid for the whole game! I'd like to give you my money, but holy cow.

Edited by Bullwinkle
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Well I was going to spend some money on buying something... then after looking at the prices, I changed my mind.  My opinion is that if the individual items were priced lower, I might buy many of them over time, and then spend more than the bundle.  But maybe someone else is willing to pay that.

PFID-F5D45B8AF20421AC

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My interpretation on the pricing is more: 

It's going to be a long time until there's any major updates, so here's 70,000 gold worth of goals to grind on while we contemplate Skull & Shackles... and beyond!

 

The game is still the same otherwise.  We've just got something to work towards now that AD6 finally showed up.

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My interpretation on the pricing is more:

It's going to be a long time until there's any major updates, so here's 70,000 gold worth of goals to grind on while we contemplate Skull & Shackles... and beyond!

 

The game is still the same otherwise. We've just got something to work towards now that AD6 finally showed up.

Except you can't get most of it with gold, only real money, unless I missed something...

Edited by kdl88
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My interpretation on the pricing is more:

It's going to be a long time until there's any major updates, so here's 70,000 gold worth of goals to grind on while we contemplate Skull & Shackles... and beyond!

 

The game is still the same otherwise. We've just got something to work towards now that AD6 finally showed up.

Except you can't get most of it with gold, only real money, unless I missed something...

Among the new things added, gold Purchases now include:

Character Alts (6,000/7,000 gold each)

Basic Dice (1,500 gold each)

Marbled Dice (5,000 gold each)

Luminous Dice (5,000 gold each)

 

Among the new things added, gold purchases do not include:

Character Alt Bundles

Dice Bundles

Epic Dice ($7)

Legendary Dice ($10)

 

The only things a F2P player doesn't have a direct means to acquire with gold are the Epic/Legendary dice, which still may be found in a chests.

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I should clarify: I have no issue with paying absurd amounts of _gold_ for things if you want to play free.

 

I take issue with the absurd amounts of _money_ things cost if you want to buy them. I'd like to support this game, but I also want a bit of a bang for the buck, y'know?

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I can understand that the pricing looks frightening at first, but I guess it is less of an issue than many think. The alternate character version cost 6k or 7k gold in the store. If you buy the daily gold package (max 6k gold per month) for less than 5 $ and use challenges to boost your gold income while playing, you get easily one alternate character in less than a month without any major grind. If you're willing to grind a bit, you can speed this up substantially.

 

So it is only expensive if you need all new versions right now! Aim for one per month and you invest only a fraction of the money and also get a long time goal until Obsidian give us something new to save our gold for.

 

And I'm sure there will be discounts later for the bundles, so just be patient.

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I can understand that the pricing looks frightening at first, but I guess it is less of an issue than many think. The alternate character version cost 6k or 7k gold in the store. If you buy the daily gold package (max 6k gold per month) for less than 5 $ and use challenges to boost your gold income while playing, you get easily one alternate character in less than a month without any major grind. If you're willing to grind a bit, you can speed this up substantially.

 

So it is only expensive if you need all new versions right now! Aim for one per month and you invest only a fraction of the money and also get a long time goal until Obsidian give us something new to save our gold for.

 

And I'm sure there will be discounts later for the bundles, so just be patient.

Thanks.  That's how I feel too.  We hit AD6. We're at the end of RoTR.

We probably have a long, long time to acquire all this new stuff.  It is likely to be the only new content we have to play with for a while.

 

Who know's what's next up for digital Pathfinder, but the character alts will give you stuff to buy, and a way to mix things up in the meantime.

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Keep the feedback coming guys, we are watching and I'll put together something for the team.

In case it is not obvious we are very new with mobile and transaction based games so please vote for with your wallets and you voices! Post here, email us or tweet us. The more feedback we get the better we can address these things. I would like to stay employed and I would LOVE to be able to continue to work on Pathfinder Adventures! So keep the feedback coming.

I can't comment on what we got coming next, because Nathan and Ryan will kill me, but know they we do want to keep producing new content for RotR and beyond, it just has to make financial sense for us to do so. We love working on this game (we curse it sometimes, this game is complex as all get out) and we'd all like to continue to work on it and develop new content for it. I can tell you that much.

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Keep the feedback coming guys, we are watching and I'll put together something for the team.

Thanks for listening. In that case, I'll reiterate what I said here and what's been suggested elsewhere: this pricing is WAY off anything what I would have thought it would be.

 

The full bundles are more than twice the cost of the regular box content of the entire game. I was a day one buyer of the original bundle, and I'm happy to give you guys more money for an exceptional game, but I have to feel like I'm getting some kind of decent value. $60 ain't even close to that. I don't know about the economics of something like this, but standard pricing I've seen on mobile would normally be around $1 per alt, somewhat less in a bundle. (On a personal note, I'd pay up to $2 per alt, but I'd only go that high because I *want* to support you. I'd still feel the pricing was out of line.)

 

I'd also echo what others have requested: lower prices on alts for those who already own the characters (ideally, those who PAID for those characters rather than FTP grinding). As it is now, it's doubly terrible value: we're essentially being penalized for having already given you money. (There's a psychological element here, too: any time paid customers get hosed like that, it's a subconscious suggestion that one's earlier monetary support means nothing to the devs. Of course that's not the real sentiment, but that's what it comes off as.)

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This is Also going to Steam and at least 5-10$ for alt is norm in there. So it has to be balanced. For me the 60$ for allts is ok. But suggestions that if you allready have normal version, then a discount to the alta only would be nice and seems more "fair" tomthose that just bought the normal version of the character. The gold cost is just fine, the real money seems to have a room to small adjustments.

I just want to see more content, so I may be more willling to support the game in a way to there. IMHO

 

If this would be a PC game, like it will be some day. The price of 40-60$ would be normal for whole game. And 4.99-9.99 to extra content like characters etc. And because Obsidian has been PC producer for a long time, these prises seems to to fair to me. In tablet world the games tends to be cheaper, but They Also Are normally more simpler that this one, so it is harder to get the balance right.

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I've been a Pathfinder card game player since the first box set came out. I love the game, and was very happy to see it come to tablet. Here are my expectations, experiences and judgements in no particular.

 

I'm a former IT programmer, project manager, and delivery manager for computer systems software. My first thought was, "I know this game and how complex the actions are, and how numerous are the special situations that have to be managed. I had reservations on the viability of this product. I bought the bundle to start, and I play every character through legendary difficulty.

 

The pace of publishing the deck releases reflected the difficulties of this game. There were many patches along the way. The biggest disappointment was that there were so many game or character breaking bugs in the game. I've lost track of the number progression breaks. I haven't been able to complete a story scenario without restarting my tablet (iOS) since I don't know when. I go to combat, and sometimes I can't play a weapon without reloading the game. Really, is someone driving this dev and test team to deliver product without even a reasonable effort to produce a quality product? Wiping out a player characters cards.!!!.by deck 6 we should be far beyond such a failure. Sorry, but I have to grade this a failure. Not since Pools of Radience on PC (20 years ago?) have I personally experienced a worse delivered product.

 

I totally expected that not all cards would work quite as they are supposed to. However, minor patches and releases should, and have, cleaned up many of these issues. I grade this as a passing to good effort.

 

There has been considerable new content, going beyond the box game. This is an excellent way to enhance the product. I really do appreciate all of it. I rate content very good. I would have given an excellent if quest mode had been completed to support deck six.

 

I play this game on one platform..iOS tablet. I would love to have this on my PC (steam?). This would be a fascinating multiplayer game, but I have no hope of ever seeing that happen. Multiplayer on Steam..oh yes! There is so much unrealized potential that I grade the current platform choice as fair.

 

Then there is application performance. I check my tablet usage stats and this game is an absolute hog on all resources it touches. Memory, battery and network. This suggest some real problems that need to be solved before any additional content is published. Is the main engine design flawed? Are there numerous memory leaks? Do modules need to be written to incorporate all chapters. Has all the patchwork and piecemeal delivery created a unfixable coding monster. I wish that I could play more than two scenarios without having to get out my charger cable. this app consumes more resources than any other app on my tablet, I upgrade the performance to poor because it does so much.

 

I am not really into pricing. I vote with my wallet. I thought the bundle was fair, though remarkably high for an iTunes Store product. The market will make it adjust

 

For the future......I'm not so sure. Based on the current program load, Swords and Shackles would have to be a stand alone product. There is no way you could add it to the current engine and keep it running.

I think the best development path is

Continue to clean up card errors

Eliminate all progression breaks

Eliminate all errors that force a player to reload a game

Develop multiplayer capability

Deliver on steam

Add quest levels to support deck 6

And then deliver new content, most likely to quest mode

Along the way, make improvements to the program modules.

 

After all the above is done, use the improved engine to deliver the next game.

 

Please reply or like. Thanks for your patience.

Edited by DrDior
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This is Also going to Steam and at least 5-10$ for alt is norm in there.

Not a chance are you paying $10 per single alt like this in a game like this. Maybe you're thinking about hardcore train or plane sims, where you're paying for all the physics modelling, etc. This is just slightly tweaked stats and a new skin.

 

I realize you want the devs to have money so they can succeed. So do I; that's the whole point of my post. And perhaps prices this high will make them more money in the long run from whales, who knows. But I should be a day one buyer of this content, and at prices like this, they've driven me to FTP instead. That doesn't seem like good business.

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I can say this, make those alts closer to 99c or maybe 1.99 and an attractive bundle and I'm sending money your way. Same goes for the dice. $10 an alt though? I'm on the same Free to Play wagon as Bullwinkle is and I'll just wait to see if another box set comes out.

 

I guess it comes down to would you rather have 10 bucks from 10% of the population or 2 bucks from 80%

 

As an above poster said, the market will force it to adjust one way or another.

 

I mean look here http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174587/Steam_sales_How_deep_discounts_really_affect_your_games.php

 

Turns out lower prices actually increases revenue, even beyond the original sales and when it is no longer on sale, there is a lingering effect and sales are still high.

 

Just my 2c

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 First let me say that I love this game, I own almost all of the physical Pathfinder base sets and accessories and I love that the digital game is a portable version that makes play so much easier by eliminating set up and break down times. This being said, I was very happy to see that there was going to be more content in the form of alternate characters, however I was most disappointed when I saw their price (in both gold and cash) and their stats. In the physical card game the alternate Iconic characters are more different from their base set counterparts and make you actually want to take them out adventuring again, not to mention they each have two new roles. For example,(without giving too much away) going from the card game, Shadow Merisiel starts with slightly better stat numbers, has the craft skill, and she has a combat bonus using the finesse mechanic(which is supported in digital but hardly used, I think except through 1 ally). In her case, Shadow is a role which gives the opportunity to reduce before and after damage(in addition to other new abilities). Knowing what is out there in terms of content, I find the digital alternates to be totally underwhelming, at the very least the could have new roles but from what I see in the store they retain the same two available to the base set characters.  I realize making money is important, and I don't mind spending a reasonable amount of money and time for worthwhile content, but in this case selling an entire game for $25.00 and then asking for $60.00 for a few additional characters (especially as they are, doesn't weigh it self out). Even with the inclusion of the base characters (which had an individual price tag of 1500 or so gold each) the alts should be no more than 3000-4000 gold, however with their stats I don't think I would even buy them at that amount. Personally I would have liked to see a  character from each of the class decks for a new experience, like instead of a slightly tweaked Valeros, give us one of the class deck fighters such as Vika the blacksmith, or Flenta the Arcane Pretender. If money is the object, release class deck characters at reasonable prices(both cash and gold) and I would spend more to get card packs designed to specifically  support those characters . New content is great, but if possible it should be new and exciting, not just slightly different from what we already have. There's so much content already there and available to draw from for this game, In the future, if possible, I'd like to see more of it being implemented. All that said, this is just an opinion. I have great admiration for the team and all they do, I look forward to the future of the Pathfinder digital experience.       -Triple S

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I was extremely disappointed in these--I was hoping for the alternate character deck cards, and I've been planning on spending money for new characters. But these aren't really new characters, and they aren't different enough to enable new playstyles. Playing through the game with the new alts for Merisiel/Lem/Seoni/Valeros is going to feel a lot like playing through the game again with the original characters, it's just going to cost a large premium of dollars or time. I'd gladly spend money for replayability or spend time with different characters, but this isn't it. They just LOOK different and have slight tweaks in gameplay that aren't entirely positive. (Shadow Merisiel loses flexibility with her lower strength, for instance. Why would I pay $10 for that? If she lost flexibility but played significantly different, sure!)

 

Honestly the price feels high even if they WERE the alternate character deck cards--I paid 12$ or so for the original four pack of extra characters and didn't regret it. I can't see paying a total of what, 40$ for four new characters to replay the base set adventure? As is I guess I might grind up gold for one or two of these alternates (the art on a few is very nice, at least), but there's a good chance I'll have simply played out the game by then.

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These prices are more appropriate for whole new characters... but even then, it'd be on the expensive side. For the most part, these changes are minor character tweaks. They can be enough to feel really different, but most of them are just a variation. Lowering Constitution one die size and raising Wisdom by one die size, is a change roughly equivalent to putting a Skill Feat into Wisdom instead of Constitution. This is not a huge thing.

 

For a game your very familiar with, little tweaks like this can make a big difference and bring a nice little bit of life into a game you've played out. However the change between the sub-classes is bigger, so having to pay so much for a change that's less impactful than going between Drunken Master and Zen Archer, is not a good deal. $20 for all character alts would be the absolute maximum I'd pay for. But about $1 per alt feels a bit more fair. And in terms of gold, an alt costs about twice as much as the base character, if you don't already have the base character. I might buy the alts of Seoni and Harsk, because I'd also be getting the base character as part of the deal. But that's also because those are some of the most distinct ones. And even then, I think the prices are rather high for what you get. It's a bad deal, but I might be interested enough to try them out anyway.

I'm not one to begrudge making a living, I always chip $10-$20 into every free to play game I enjoy, regardless of whether I have anything I want to buy. But I've seen an excellent game (AErena) that I was very invested in fail because it had a poor monetization aspect. Now, this is a standalone game, and if nothing else is ever made for it, then I'd be satisfied. It's not a PvP game where you need a critical mass of players. But there's plenty of future potential, and I don't want to see that not materialize because the business aspect is out of whack. I'm not a businessman, but for reference, I'd say a fair price is at about $1 per alt, or $8 for a bundle of all 11. A bit more re-jiggering might be necessary for players who don't have all the base characters. And, of course, the alts should be purchasable at a lowered price if you already have the base character.

Edited by Sines314
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I'll throw in my two cents as well, for the record.  I love the game, bought everything so far until the first promo bundle.  It didn't give much value given that I had already bought everything up to that point - would have basically been paying $10 for 2 promo cards.  The second bundle I bought just to support the game, really, and I was mad I missed the other promo cards.  I was excited for the character alts but won't be buying any of them because it's too much like the first promo pack - I'm being asked to pay twice for the the same content.  If there was a discounted version for those who already had purchased all of the original characters, I'd by the alts in a heartbeat.  Without that I might get one or two - but not sure about that so I'm just saving up gold right now. 

 

The pricing makes sense for new players who have not bought any characters.  Not so much for those of us who have been supporting the game for a long time now.  That seems like bad marketing.

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