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Heals stopped working, entire game super buggy

bugs crashes healsnotwork unstable

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38 replies to this topic

#21
mccrispy

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Dude, if we could figure out what the trigger was, we'd say so. Are you saying that it's our responsibility as users to invest time in performing experiments to determine the cause? 'Cos to me, that sounds like the task of the development team. Our job is surely to say "here's something wrong and here's our best understanding of the circumstances". But the thing is, if the trigger isn't immediate (like, say Merisiel's recharging of Blessing) where cause and effect are directly linked, it can be difficult for an end-user to spot, when they are focussing on playing the game, which is the job of the end-user.

#22
Hannibal_PJV

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Well in this case the developer spend 60 hours trying to reproduce the bug instead of fixing something else and did not tricker the bug...
So I think that the dev is trying out to find the bug and if They do, They may fix it. But it is very hard to fix something if it is not broken or if it is very hard to cause the problem.
So the Dude above is not complaining that we others can not provide more accurate information. He mainly was consern that we could be more polite. I am personally an "older" person and I often found these forums Also be not so polite towards game developers and even against other Forum writers. It disturbs me greatly some times, because all that unfriendly speak does not fix any problems that we see in the apps and programs. They Are just mean and ill words that hurt peoples. But as I said I am an elderly Person and my personal tolerance to unfriendly talk is very limited. So it is a personal taste in some degree.

These hide and seek bugs that Are very difficult to reproduce Are really hard to fix. So every Person who does reproduce this bug and Also can do it again and again by using same combination of things will help a lot in fixing this problem.
If devs use 300 hours more and do not find this bug it is a time wasted on fixing other bugs. Ofcourse They will try to reproduce it because it is their job and interest to do it, but any more clues will speed up the prosess!
My both thumbs Are up to all the post above that have been given new clues and more accurate information about this bug! You Are Great! Keep it upp! Sooner or later this bug is a dead bug... and good riddance of it in that day!

Edited by Hannibal_PJV, 03 December 2016 - 02:02 AM.

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#23
elcoderdude

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I have two points:

First, like Hannibal said, some of the tone in this thread is way out of line. There's no need for it.

Second, we're all part of this community. If you are seeing the bug, and many others (including all the developers) are not, it would really help the whole community if you could detail the situation in which you see the bug.

I'm not saying you as the end user have to find the trigger.
I'm saying that detailed information can only help to fix this problem, which would benefit the whole community.

The developer asked for assistance, and got snark and no help. That's what I'm objecting to.
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#24
mccrispy

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have you read any of my bug posts at all?

#25
Hannibal_PJV

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Do you ask me or dev?
Yep, you have been busy of finding and informing bugs. Two thumbs upp for that!

#26
mccrispy

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I wasn't replying to you at all. My comment was addressed to elcoderdude.

#27
elcoderdude

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And my original complaint was addressed at Worblehat.

#28
mccrispy

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Personally, I would prefer that members of the forum avoid policing the forums. It doesn't help any and engenders bad feelings. If you have issues with a person, take it up with them personally, not in a public forum. If you have really serious issues with a post, use the report button. The forum has moderators after all.

As to expressing anger in these forums, I see that as entirely valid (as long no names are called and reasonable propriety is observed). I'm not a big fan of looking at the positive side of every issue - my experience is that it tends to mask real problems that need to be addressed.

Mind you, it's not as though OBS have a high hit rate with responding to posts - currently less than 1 in 10. So what's the value in posting a metric tonne of information if you have little to no expectation that OBS will even have the curtesy to acknowledge the post - let alone actually fix the bug? There's a limit to how much "community support" can really do here (other than making us all - misguidedly - feel good that we're doing something).

#29
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Glad to hear you don't think posts should be personal -- I appreciate that, since you've directed several at me, and made two sarcastic posts on my latest thread.

The Obsidian developers don't show up on many threads, so when they do -- like on this thread -- it behooves us all to be as helpful as possible. That's what I'm saying.

The Paizo Pathfinder Adventure Card Game forum has a marvelous camaraderie. We're not just consumers, we're contributors. It'd be cool if we could foster the same spirit here.

#30
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Personally, I would prefer that members of the forum avoid policing the forums. It doesn't help any and engenders bad feelings. If you have issues with a person, take it up with them personally, not in a public forum. If you have really serious issues with a post, use the report button. The forum has moderators after all.

You can also PM forum moderators if you're not sure if something should be reported or not.

As to expressing anger in these forums, I see that as entirely valid (as long no names are called and reasonable propriety is observed). I'm not a big fan of looking at the positive side of every issue - my experience is that it tends to mask real problems that need to be addressed.

I think some frustration is understandable; it's seen in all forums I've been a part of when bugs have been encountered.

Mind you, it's not as though OBS have a high hit rate with responding to posts - currently less than 1 in 10. So what's the value in posting a metric tonne of information if you have little to no expectation that OBS will even have the curtesy to acknowledge the post - let alone actually fix the bug? There's a limit to how much "community support" can really do here (other than making us all - misguidedly - feel good that we're doing something).

As I understand it the PACG ap has ten people on the team and only two that I've seen checking the forums - at least to post. We don't know if anyone has logged issues without posting. With a patch pending the team may be focusing on getting the patch out rather than posting here.

I think we can at best just post as much information about bugs we encounter and wait for Obsidian to check the threads and fix the issues.
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#31
mccrispy

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Not quite what I meant by "personal". Directed at you isn't the same as "personal" . Not sure that I agree with your approach to "visitations from above", my belief is that the roles are reversed: OBS should be darn grateful that we collect and share as much data as we do and for such scant return on our investment. Instead, they largely fail to acknowledge our posts, let alone fix the bugs.

I don't come to this forum for "camaraderie", I have no interest in a "community" that sets the terms of its membership or requires me to be a "good boy" and not complain: I come here to report issues with a (dwindling) expectation that something good (in terms of the game) will come of my efforts.

#32
mccrispy

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Personally, I would prefer that members of the forum avoid policing the forums. It doesn't help any and engenders bad feelings. If you have issues with a person, take it up with them personally, not in a public forum. If you have really serious issues with a post, use the report button. The forum has moderators after all.

You can also PM forum moderators if you're not sure if something should be reported or not.

Good call!
 

As to expressing anger in these forums, I see that as entirely valid (as long no names are called and reasonable propriety is observed). I'm not a big fan of looking at the positive side of every issue - my experience is that it tends to mask real problems that need to be addressed.

I think some frustration is understandable; it's seen in all forums I've been a part of when bugs have been encountered.

Indeed.
 

Mind you, it's not as though OBS have a high hit rate with responding to posts - currently less than 1 in 10. So what's the value in posting a metric tonne of information if you have little to no expectation that OBS will even have the curtesy to acknowledge the post - let alone actually fix the bug? There's a limit to how much "community support" can really do here (other than making us all - misguidedly - feel good that we're doing something).

As I understand it the PACG ap has ten people on the team and only two that I've seen checking the forums - at least to post. We don't know if anyone has logged issues without posting. With a patch pending the team may be focusing on getting the patch out rather than posting here.

I think we can at best just post as much information about bugs we encounter and wait for Obsidian to check the threads and fix the issues.

I can assure you that people do post without using the forum - I've done it myself (and received no response, so I post here so at least others can get a head's up). I sure hope that OBS are up to their collective necks in fixing bugs (not creating more bug-riddled features), otherwise there is no excuse for their lack of presence on the forum.

#33
Ethics Gradient

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The Paizo Pathfinder Adventure Card Game forum has a marvelous camaraderie. We're not just consumers, we're contributors. It'd be cool if we could foster the same spirit here.

Thats been my take on things as well.  The Pathfinder world had some of the nicest, most laid-back players compared to other RPGs or CCGs.  Sometimes it gets lively debating the rules, but frankly, those arguments can usually go either way without drastically changing how enjoyable the game can be.
 
As far as the Tech Support area goes, yes, of course it's not the poster's responsibility to be an unpaid QA intern.  But the reality remains that there will always be a lag between discovery and patch.  The more we can do to describe and isolate the issue, the better the chance of reducing patch lag, and the better the chance of finding workarounds in the meantime.  Users aren't playing forum cop just to ensure proper bug reports get filed; chances are, they're responding because they actually care.

 
That's the camaraderie and community spirit elcoderdude is talking about.  Nobody has to care, but some do.  The community doesn't release patches, but there's no reason it can't help find interim ways for users to overcome or avoid the bugs that make the app unenjoyable.


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#34
Amentep

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Not sure that I agree with your approach to "visitations from above", my belief is that the roles are reversed: OBS should be darn grateful that we collect and share as much data as we do and for such scant return on our investment.


And you are certainly entitled to feel that way. My experience on this forum (and Interplay and Black Isle Studios previously) is that there are points were the Devs have to choose between being responsive to the community and dealing with issues that have been identified (and trying to replicate those that have not).

I'm sure they are grateful for the posts by users here, whether they have the time to say it for each post or not. Or even to acknowledge they've logged a bug for the I reports/testing. Your mileage may vary, of course.

I have no interest in a "community" that sets the terms of its membership or requires me to be a "good boy" and not complain


There is nothing in the forum rules that says you can't complain. We are only asked to not post material that is abusive, defamatory, libelous, harassing, hateful, obscene, profane, vulgar, or illicit; from spamming, from posting discriminatory remarks or from impersonating a real person (and a few other provisions)

I believe that leaves plenty of room to register complaints, to be negative over development of the game or speed of fixes.
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#35
mccrispy

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OK, I shall continue as I have then. I certainly have no intention of exceeding the parameters that you describe! I may be brusque on occasion(s), but I try to avoid downright rudeness.

And yes, believe it or not, I have no personal animosity toward OBS Devs: I'm sure that they are doing the best that they can with the resources that they have available. Which is why I criticise, in the hope that it gives them ammunition to use in discussions with the layer of OBS management the we have zero access to. You know, the bean-counters who can hide away from the consequences of decisions by not being in the front line so that their decisions are "strategic and for the good of the company" (read "short-term bottom line").

Still, that's enough of a thread de-rail. Back to logging bugs and complaining :biggrin:

Edited by mccrispy, 05 December 2016 - 06:15 AM.

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#36
elcoderdude

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The Paizo Pathfinder Adventure Card Game forum has a marvelous camaraderie. We're not just consumers, we're contributors. It'd be cool if we could foster the same spirit here.

Thats been my take on things as well.  The Pathfinder world had some of the nicest, most laid-back players compared to other RPGs or CCGs.  Sometimes it gets lively debating the rules, but frankly, those arguments can usually go either way without drastically changing how enjoyable the game can be.
 
As far as the Tech Support area goes, yes, of course it's not the poster's responsibility to be an unpaid QA intern.  But the reality remains that there will always be a lag between discovery and patch.  The more we can do to describe and isolate the issue, the better the chance of reducing patch lag, and the better the chance of finding workarounds in the meantime.  Users aren't playing forum cop just to ensure proper bug reports get filed; chances are, they're responding because they actually care.
 
That's the camaraderie and community spirit elcoderdude is talking about.  Nobody has to care, but some do.  The community doesn't release patches, but there's no reason it can't help find interim ways for users to overcome or avoid the bugs that make the app unenjoyable.


Thanks for grokking me, EG. The card gamers, at least, who come to these boards bring a passion for these games (card and digital). We aren't buying appliances here. We might as well help each other enjoy this pastime, which is, after all, fun.
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#37
mccrispy

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OK, I thought we were done with this. Apparently not. And who is snarking now eh? "the card gamers, at least" WTF does that mean? Some sort of elite cadre of players that excludes certain people by sly inference? I call BS on that! Great way to foster the spirit  of camaraderie that you wish to engender. Not! (FWiW, I have a complete first printing copy of PACG and am - mainly - a player of physical board games, can I please join your elite group, can I? can I? pretty please? Pah!)



#38
elcoderdude

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We're done with it, as long as you have the last word, eh?

Not sure why it matters to you, since you don't want "camaraderie".

I won't try to teach you about community. The dwarves are for the dwarves.

#39
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It appears this thread has run its course; the issue has been reported for the developers to see and if new players encounter it they can see this on a search and then start a new thread to provide more information on how they encountered it.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: bugs, crashes, healsnotwork, unstable

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