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Provisional Builds


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#21
K Galen B

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I generally support stuff that offers new mechanics or more options but I don't like 'unarmed' weapons in most games. Too much cognitive dissonance in that concept I guess. :getlost:



#22
Ben No.3

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Pffff... ;)

 

I say we do a petition for the inclusion of whips (speed boost) and brass knuckles (two damage types)...



#23
Jojobobo

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That sounds really cool. I take it that you don't have Sandals of the Forgotten Friar yet?
Would you say that with Bloodlust+Bloodthirst+Frenzy it would be wise to put on Ryonas Vambraces and also take Vulnerable Attack for 8 DR bypass (and maybe adding Garodh's Chorus and Barbaric Retaliation for double retaliation that is not crush?) - or would you think that it's better to go for more speed and take Gauntlets of Swift Action and no Vuln. Attack? Since you only can boost your damage significantly via MIG and scaling maybe the DR bypass is worth the slower attacks? I mean Blood Thirst takes away some of it. What do you think? Or even go for Glittering Gauntlets (if you manage to get them) for the AoE dazing maybe?

Do you know how talents like Wilder Hunter behave with the fists' damage? Do they also only raise the whimpy base damage or maybe the bonus of Novice's Suffering, too, like MIG does? Same with the Bartender's Ring? If those things work differently from talents like Savage Attack they might be a good pick...?

No, no Sandals of the Forgotten Friar yet - I usually do a lot of Act II before starting the White March Pt I, that Stalwart fight is tough solo. Concerning recovery, I think it's fairly negligible, even with Vulnerable Attack. Let's see:

 

Recovery for two weapon style is 0.5 as a base. Durganizing your armor gives Sanguine Plate +0.35 recovery, and Vulnerable Attack adds a further +0.2. That's 1.05 to overcome.

 

Using Ryona's Vambraces there's: 1.33 (Frenzy) x 1.2 (Bloodlust) + 0.2 (Two Weapon Style) - 1 = 1.80 with rounding. But, you can just turn off Vulnerable Attack when you need to, and then you're looking at 0.05 recovery next to nothing.

 

With Gauntlets of Speed you're at 1.04 reduction (again, with rounding) - leaving you with 0.01 recovery, practically zero. Then bear in mind these are further lowered by Dex, as is your general attack speed (a x1.3 reduction at Dex 20), and you're looking at even less of a nothing. In all likelihood, it's probably best to judge against enemy DR whether you'll need Vulnerable Attack active or not.

 

With Barb Retal, regular Retal and Glittering Gauntlets - they all roll your terrible accuracy so I don't think it's worth it. Barb Retal could easily replace Thick Skinned on this build, but I think the damage still isn't that worthwhile given that it's not going to hit most of the time and it's a bit of a drop in the ocean compared to what you're doing with your fists. I guess I'll give it a bit of a test when I get to level 16 and see how it plays out.

 

I think as pedroelm says, pretty much nothing but Might effects the damage - which is another reason not to go for Garodh's Chorus Retal as the Maegfolc Skull gives one higher. As I said, I'm currently clearing Heritage Hill and I have the Bartender's Ring - so I'll watch out for differences closely, but I've not noticed anything large. I'll also at some point check out some hater talents, but there's not a great deal of room for a lot of talents tbh - so even if they did scale it's unlikely I'd take them.

 

I'm fleshing out a wizard pike build atm because the testing of Spirit Lance + Knockdown + Runner's Wounding Shot + Envenomed Strike + Clear Out against bounty parties went so extremely well that I decided to make a build out of it, purely focused on 2h melee. Arcane Veil + Wizard's Double is really good in the early game, too - so it's not too hard to solo with a pike as a wizard even in the early game.

Sounds really cool, I look forward to seeing it fully developed - and if you need specific advice I guess here is now the place, though I'm sure you know this game better than any of us.

 

The barb is interesting - but are you going to be able to hit anything with 3 perc? I see you don't take savage attack? Presuming the accuracy hit would be to much for this build. I'm not sure about the maths, wouldn't raising perception and taking savage attack boost damage?

You have 90 accuracy end game, and seeing as you only need to graze (and you hit at an alarmingly fast rate, making up for a few misses) I think it'll be fine. I would never, ever normally advocate dumping Per, but here it should work. I'm a touch concerned about the 80 accuracy Carnage not hitting enough - but as the only thing I'd really be willing to change on the build is Snake's Reflexes for Galant's Focus (better than Accurate Carnage as it's +4 acc to your main target too), with Reflex being pretty mediocre I'd rather not.

 

What you have reminded me to do is make sure to get my Lore up to 8 so I can take Scrolls of Valour (I could just take Lore 6 and use the resting bonus, but then I compromise on juicy Might). Unlike shoddy potions of Eldritch Aim that last for next to no time, with Scrolls of Valour and my Int they'll over 20 seconds offering +15 accuracy - a stack of 5 of them should be more than enough, and honestly the 105 accuracy they'll hit is fairly decent for solo.

 

Anyway... I'll get back to it. It's great the build has so much interest, I guess people like the idea of playing a face-beating badass! I'll report anything else interesting, but I think mostly now it'll be the long grind get through most of my current playthrough.


Edited by Jojobobo, 03 November 2016 - 10:20 AM.

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#24
Ben No.3

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Happy 1000st post Jojobobo(I guess).... ;)


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#25
Jojobobo

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I didn't even notice, I'll give myself a pat on the back. To be honest I posted a lot around here when the game was in development, so I accumulated many posts in that pointless period where everyone was rampantly speculating about every exact detail of Pillars - when I think really the devs knew what they wanted to do anyway.

 

Just tested Wilder Hunter - no dice. I set Might to 100 (with 500 Per to ensure a crit) and went and gave the Cliant Lis Xaurip a spanking, I actually rolled for less damage with the talent on a crit than when I didn't have it (both within the listed damage range for the character too, again indicating that graze/hit/crit makes no difference). I'll try with the Bartender's Ring, but I'm 99% sure there's no difference.

 

PS The best way to clear the opening encampment is to pick a Barbarian, set Int to 10000, Might to 500 and Per to 500 - one hit clears the entire map. It's quite fun if you want to get into or slightly past Cliant Lis to test, warping to different locations is such a pain.

 

EDIT: No luck with the Bartender's Ring either. In a hit on my current character I did 23 damage against a Gul, with my damage range being 20-25 (how's that for consistency?). However, seeing as the Bartender's Ring adds 20%, if the damage range was working normally the minimum I would do on a hit as far as I can tell is 24 (20 at a low RNG roll plus 20% of 20). I did also notice a Carnage graze did 19 damage, again underscoring how sweet this set up is.

 

Really this build is great for easy character design, as all you really have to care about is Might - unless you play with low Int nothing else really has a great deal of effect (you can even offset low Dex with ease with all the Barb speed bonuses). In this way you can make it as close to a pure DPS focussed build as is more or less possible, made all the better because whole groups suffer equally. I know my build isn'y zero recovery, but having a huge chunk of DR with minimal recovery is more than worth it to me - but by all means a zero recovery variant I think would be easily doable.


Edited by Jojobobo, 03 November 2016 - 12:13 PM.


#26
Dr <3

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I agree that ryona's bracer probably do more for your dmg than gauntlets of accuracy of or speed. In the end since from midgame everyone have 8+ armor, is like a +3 flat dmg.

Edited by Dr <3, 03 November 2016 - 12:30 PM.


#27
Jojobobo

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I think the thing is with Ryona's Vambraces is that I likely won't have them most of the game as the Alpine Dragon is crush immune. I guess I'll see how early I can take him on, but with this character he's probably one of the bosses I'll most struggle with. If I do leave it until end game, Gauntlets of Swift Action will more than make up for it in the mean time (with a side of Siegebreaker Gauntlets if enemies are interrupting the crap out of me).

 

In terms of abilities, I think Wild Sprint is much better now than Thick Skinned (which has, and always will be, kind of lame). Getting into the tower at Heritage Hill, it's very obvious that mages are a big problem due to the build's low Relfex and Deflection (Deflection wards against the likes of Necrotic Lance and Cleansing Flame), and while I did realised this which is why I stuck Snake's Reflexes on the build, handling it earlier is definitely a benefit. While Dragon Leap will help when you get it, Wild Sprint is much more useful earlier and also later in situations where casters are fanned out as you can only Dragon Leap plus HoF on one of them when the surrounding melee guys dog pile in - meaning you'd take a lot of spell hits otherwise to get to any additional casters. Further, I normally use Survival bonuses for speed, but here they'd be better spent on accuracy for the boss monsters - and as I really don't want to use Boots of Speed end game Wild Sprint remains a premier option to get decent positioning (Llengrath, Magran's Faithful, and the like).

 

So yeah, Wild Sprint can move into the 9 slot and One Stands Alone into the 15 - Flanked immunity (more or less) is still extremely useful in my opinion. This is build development in action, I'm sure you're all extremely thrilled (don't worry, it's wry humour, not genuine megalomania - or at least I think it is).


Edited by Jojobobo, 03 November 2016 - 12:58 PM.


#28
Boeroer

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Since in solo mode you will outlevel most foes: Eye of the Storm may also be good. I don't know if it prevents flanking altogether when you can't get engaged, but running around with Wild Sprint and suffering from no disengagement attacks is quite handy.

You can get Ryona's Vambraces without fighting the Alpine Dragon. You just need 17 RES in order to unlock the dialogue options where you can help him with his soul issues. He will give you the Vambraces as reward. You can still kill him later. But maybe 17 RES is hard for you to achieve?

Edited by Boeroer, 03 November 2016 - 01:58 PM.

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#29
Dr <3

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He woved to the allmighty god of power play to never respec his char, so it might be an issue... 😂

#30
Jojobobo

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Since in solo mode you will outlevel most foes: Eye of the Storm may also be good. I don't know if it prevents flanking altogether when you can't get engaged, but running around with Wild Sprint and suffering from no disengagement attacks is quite handy.

It's a little handy, but I don't really see the need. Barbs have good endurance and endurance heals to make up for damage from disengagement, and when I get Dragon Leap and HoF most people will die anyway (you can easily hit level 16 before Act II and in WM pt I), plus I'll take Wild Running too to ease disengagement. All in all, I'd say it's definitely not worth the ability, though the abilities in this build are hardly a hot contest so most could be switched out.

 

EDIT: I thought more about this ability, and while it is very good I don't think it's as worthy as One Stands Alone - at least for solo play. For solo play you level much faster, so getting access to Dragon Leap does defeat the point if Wild Sprint to a good extent, and I would say especially Eye of the Storm. But in party play where the levelling up comes much slower it definitely has it's advantages - I think my initial thoughts about it player it down too much and likely it's a stronger option than One Stands Alone in party play as other party members lessen the impact of Flanked on your Barb. As I mentioned, this build is loosey-goosey for abilities, so it is extremely easy to chop and change.

 

You can get Ryona's Vambraces without fighting the Alpine Dragon. You just need 17 RES in order to unlock the dialogue options where you can help him with his soul issues. He will give you the Vambraces as reward. You can still kill him later. But maybe 17 RES is hard for you to achieve?

I will definitely do that (very easy to buff to that level from 10), remarkable that you can do that with one of the worst bosses in the game and yet one of Serel's options requires Resolve 18 (at least, I think). A very sensical choice by the devs, for sure.


Edited by Jojobobo, 03 November 2016 - 02:59 PM.


#31
prototype00

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I am so hype for this two handed wizard build that Boeroer is debuting! A couple of questions:

 

1. What is spell mastery going to look like for you?

 

2. Which stats are you prioritizing?

 

3. Any chance of using the Soulbound warhammer (for trash mobs, say, save Citzal's for the real challenge)

 

4. How is it playing so far?

 

:)

 

prototype00


Edited by prototype00, 04 November 2016 - 05:11 AM.


#32
Boeroer

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I only did bounty testing so far. Can't say how it fares throughout a whole playthrough - I will find out this evening I guess. ;)
But since it's a wizard it will be all good I guess.

 

Spell Masteries: I will test different spells. But my first guess is 2-Corrosive Siphon, 3-Alacrity & 4-Pull of Eora. Lvl 1 i'm not sure. Either Wizard's Double, Eldritch Aim or Spirit Shield. For level 2 I will also test if using Infuse with Vital Essence prophylactically will reduce health loss a lot or not.

 

Stats with higher values will be MIG, INT and PER. DEX, RES and CON will remain untouched I guess. When I choose to max MIG/INT/PER I might have to dump one stat, maybe RES. Then I will def. take Spirit Shield as mastery for lvl 1. Or I will put DEX, RES and CON at 08 or so. I'll see how things work out.

 

Of course you can use Abydon's Hammer - especially the 1/encounter stun before going in and for some AoE spells in order to deal more damage. I think I will not have to rest because I don't have no use of Spirit Lance left, but mainly because my health is low or my uses for self buffs are all gone. ;) 



#33
prototype00

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Not Merciless Gaze for the 2nd level Mastery? I do agree that Wizard's Double is good early game but should be retrained later.

 

Infuse with vital essence is another good one, since you have multiple of them, and its fast cast, it might be worth it.

 

prototype00



#34
K Galen B

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I've tried Infuse with Vital Essence as a mastered spell on a solo wizard. Pretty much everything else runs out before health does if you at least remember to cast it right after the last enemy kicks the bucket.


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#35
Boeroer

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@K Galen B: Good to know, thanks for the info. I used it a lot with a blaster build quit some time ago and I couldn't remember if a spell mastery would make sense or not.

@prototype00: Merciless Gaze doesn't seem to make a lot of difference compared to other lvl-2-spells like Corrosive Siphon (which is really good: AoE dmg + healing). Combusting Wounds is also good with the Lance. But MG lasts for a long time which is also a good thing. In solo runs it will be better than with parties: the longer the encounter, the better the payoff of Merciless Gaze I guess. As I said I will test a bit more and then I'll see what feels is the best choice. Maybe it will be Merciless Gaze, who knows? ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 04 November 2016 - 12:55 PM.


#36
bigwillystyle

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The Barbarian build is kind of rough in the Abbey.  I am going to play around with it some more, but lots of misses.  



#37
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How come? At lvl 16 he should have more ACC bonus via Novice's Suffering than most weapons can get.

#38
Jojobobo

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The Barbarian build is kind of rough in the Abbey.  I am going to play around with it some more, but lots of misses.  

I find you have to be pre-prepared for pretty much every encounter at the Abbey anyway. I'd maybe change it up and go with Gauntlets of Accuracy, Tower resting bonus, Aldwyn's Boon and a +1 food item, Mantle of the Excavator and I'd also use Scrolls of Valour for +30 accuracy - this gives you 120 total (use a Figurine distraction while you set the scroll). Having a peak at their Deflection, Sworn Swords have 116, Cresentwards 133 (unless they had Crowns of the Faithful active or something), Tidalfists 97 and Faithbinders 81 - I didn't check the Wizard or Chanter losers because I think there's would presumably be lower.

 

The Abbey PotD upscaled, let's face it, is always a massive pain in the arse - especially solo. I think some pre-buffing to get through it is standard, but with patience it should be do-able, especially if you throw in a few Scrolls of Confusion here or there - if you buff the accuracy like that I think they would work with the Int given even just on grazes or hits (I think scrolls benefit from the level bonus like all spells, but I'd have to double check, in which case you're using 110 accuracy which I think as it targets Will is also fine). For me, it's above and beyond the toughest and most tedious part of the game (let's have almost 20 encounters of the same thing, over and over again).

 

EDIT: Or alternately use a Superb Kith-Slaying Vile Loner's Lance one-handed. Superb Kith-Slaying and Accurate give +22 acc, one-handed gives +12, Disorientating means -5 Defences (for an effective +5 acc again) - given that fists are +20 this has 19 accuracy more. Or maybe go Vile Loner's Lance and fist, it's hard to say without testing myself.


Edited by Jojobobo, 05 November 2016 - 01:14 AM.


#39
Boeroer

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Playing the lance guy atm - I don't know, but in early levels Merciless Caze is really useless. Even in longer fights it may trigger once, I never saw it trigger twice - i mostly graze at the moment. :) But that's still a lot of damage with Concelhaut's Staff. Siphon is much cooler in my opinion. Might change with more levels though...


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#40
Jojobobo

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I'm curious, bigwillystyle, what exact strat are you using for the Abbey? (We can PM this if you like?)

 

I'd first, based on the numbers I've given, target people with the least Deflection (if you target the tanks, you hit them less often and get less Carnage) - from what I've experienced the tanks at the Abbey aren't high damage anyway, so if you take out the weedier mob members first you should fare better. If you kill them first, you can tank some misses against the sturdier members. With a highly mobile Barbarian (and with Blunting Belt - which I'd recommend on and off the entire game - some decent plate and Second Skin), and the standard Dragon Leap and HoF combo, I'm at a little of a loss to see what the difficulties are - especially if you are doing party play? I've amassed 19 Scrolls of Valor very early already (Kurnd sells Ta Ondra Tara, various people sell small number of Stalgaer Teeth and Dyrcap is available from herb sellers everywhere) - I expect when I get to the Abbey I'll have a meaty supply, and to be honest I think what I described above was overkill in terms of adding acc, the scrolls should be enough.

 

Some misses are to be expected if you're not looking for crits, 1-15 is the range for miss and that is accuracy = defence and you will be lower than that, but you should also have around two attacks per second from what I've found - and even for some late game enemies the 90 accuracy I described is higher than their Deflection.

 

All this is to say, I'm intrigued as to bigwillystyle's.. erm.. style? The Abbey does, as I've said, require strategical ideas that are simply not required in early game. I will be testing the build in the late game when I get there regardless. For a needless update, I'm currently level 10 (I've yet to try my new earned Vuln Attack, I've decided to dump Barb Blow to 12 or 14). I want to get HoF before Stalwart, but I may also over level to get Dragon Leap before I start.


Edited by Jojobobo, 06 November 2016 - 01:15 PM.





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