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Releasing AD4,5,6 is more important than bug fixes


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We all expect bugs, but we don't expect to not get what we paid for.  I'm feeling pretty disappointed and a little foolish for dropping $25 for the full season pass when the game first came out.  

 

Honestly, I don't even think the bugs were that bad.  I luckily never ran into any game-breaking bugs, only some crashes and rules quirks, but overall was incredibly happy with the game as it was.  But each month AD4 gets delayed in favor of interface changes and other meaningless things, my frustration with this game grows

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You're not the only one frustrated with the delays. I also shelled out AUD$40 for the bundle. Calling it a season pass isn't actually correct as the Adventure Decks aren't DLC but a big part of the game. Without them, it's pretty much just a tutorial. As of the 10th of September, half of the game is still missing.

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If the game's delayed for interface tweaks, then you've got it right to rouse the villagers into action.  Arm yourself with pitchforks and fiery brands and march up to the castle in search for blood.

 

On the other hand, if the interface tweaks are attendent to bug fixes, some of which were completely game ending, then it seems prudent to let allow the devs to fix those.  Paid the quid first day of release myself.  Take the contrarian view that it's better to have something that works right before putting out more of something that works wrong.  Yearning for a release before October myself, tho.

As a bear in winter, so must I too hibernate soon.

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As for content being more important than bug fixing, cant exactly agree with that, no point in having content when there are game corrupting/game stopping bugs which prevents from even getting to it.

 

But as time lags between content release, said content does increase in priority.

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You're not the only one frustrated with the delays. I also shelled out AUD$40 for the bundle. Calling it a season pass isn't actually correct as the Adventure Decks aren't DLC but a big part of the game. Without them, it's pretty much just a tutorial. As of the 10th of September, half of the game is still missing.

Season pass can be (has been) used in both contexts, in this case it was clear from the beginning, that the game would be released in instalments.

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As for content being more important than bug fixing, cant exactly agree with that, no point in having content when there are game corrupting/game stopping bugs which prevents from even getting to it.

 

But as time lags between content release, said content does increase in priority.

Problem is that lately, most of the "game corrupting/game stopping bugs" are direct result of updates and add-ons that have very little to do with actual game content: AD4, AD5 and AD6.

 

I mean, look at the last set that came with 1.1.3: pretty much all of those bugs are due to new interface screwing things up. So now AD4 will get even further delay (I'll be surprised if we get it by the end of October!) since they'll have to fix those bugs first... bugs that shouldn't even be in the game if they didn't decide to push an update nobody cared about, nobody asked for and which actually made the game worse. Not to mention that fixing those bugs could potentially create new ones that need to be addressed first...

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The UI changes WERE necessary and asked for for smaller devices (if they should have kept the previous working UI for tablet size devices is debatable, but in a programmer perspective i can understand why they chose not to, different UIs require more maintenance and QA resources, which we know they are in lack of).

Edited by PRuano
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The UI changes WERE necessary and asked for for smaller devices (if they should have kept the previous working UI for tablet size devices is debatable, but in a programmer perspective i can understand why they chose not to, different UIs require more maintenance and QA resources, which we know they are in lack of).

Maybe they shouldn't have provided support for smaller devices? Maybe instead of phones they should focus on Steam and PC/laptop users?

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The UI changes WERE necessary and asked for for smaller devices (if they should have kept the previous working UI for tablet size devices is debatable, but in a programmer perspective i can understand why they chose not to, different UIs require more maintenance and QA resources, which we know they are in lack of).

Maybe they shouldn't have provided support for smaller devices? Maybe instead of phones they should focus on Steam and PC/laptop users?

 

Depends on what Paizo wanted.  Licensed product, after all.  Me?  I want it on PC more than the phone, but I played it on the phone just fine.  Not often, but works when I do.  Not idea from my perspective, but if Paizo demanded it as part of licensing, there you have it.  Don't know.

As a bear in winter, so must I too hibernate soon.

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The UI changes WERE necessary and asked for for smaller devices (if they should have kept the previous working UI for tablet size devices is debatable, but in a programmer perspective i can understand why they chose not to, different UIs require more maintenance and QA resources, which we know they are in lack of).

 

Maybe they shouldn't have provided support for smaller devices? Maybe instead of phones they should focus on Steam and PC/laptop users?

Depends on what Paizo wanted. Licensed product, after all. Me? I want it on PC more than the phone, but I played it on the phone just fine. Not often, but works when I do. Not idea from my perspective, but if Paizo demanded it as part of licensing, there you have it. Don't know.
Good point.

 

Regarding which platform they should focus first is also debatable, but they said previously that all those platforms were milestones, as is multiplayer, if an unified UI is the required way to go, its better to address it earlier rather than later, while the audience is both smaller and in the same segment (as tablets and phones are).

 

But yes, i think they took on too much for the resources available, and the game has been suffering for it (think even before lauch, took awhile to release and missed several first release dates as well).

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Could be... but at this point I'm pretty much done with this app. As I mentioned I don't expect AD4 before end of October, and I expect we'll get AD6 by April/May 2017... and I also expect that was it as far as this game goes. I no longer expect us to get Skulls & Shackles and Wrath of the Righteous (let alone Mummy Mask) and those are actual AP's I was looking forward to playing.

 

Shame, maybe if Paizo choose someone more reliable then Obsidian we could have a great game...

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Don't reckon we'll get sequels, but never know.  Keep up your spirit, man.  The game plays well.  it's fun.  It hasn't been that long.  Even if it's swirling in the bowl, still get RotRL.  Might be we're wrong and they'll sort things to get the other titles to us.

As a bear in winter, so must I too hibernate soon.

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Don't reckon we'll get sequels, but never know.  Keep up your spirit, man.  The game plays well.  it's fun.  It hasn't been that long.  Even if it's swirling in the bowl, still get RotRL.  Might be we're wrong and they'll sort things to get the other titles to us.

 

I wish I was as optimistic as you. As of now, I am not confident the current development team has the skills and resources necessary to create the sequels. If they're having a hard time with RotR, imagine how they'll fare when they have to program ships or mythic paths.

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Don't reckon we'll get sequels, but never know.  Keep up your spirit, man.  The game plays well.  it's fun.  It hasn't been that long.  Even if it's swirling in the bowl, still get RotRL.  Might be we're wrong and they'll sort things to get the other titles to us.

 

I wish I was as optimistic as you. As of now, I am not confident the current development team has the skills and resources necessary to create the sequels. If they're having a hard time with RotR, imagine how they'll fare when they have to program ships or mythic paths.

 

Exactly... Runelords is simplest and least complex AP of the three currently released. If they have this much problem releasing AD4 of Runelords I can't even begin to imagine how much problem will they have with Ships, Cohorts, Mythic Paths, scenarios that build location in the middle of it, Villains that are shuffled into blessings deck and all those non-standard victory conditions...

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Even if they do release the other scenarios, they'll probably make a game called Pathfinder Adventures: Wrath of the Righteous, a separate download with separate characters, unlocks, etc. I think this is as it should be...

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As for content being more important than bug fixing, cant exactly agree with that, no point in having content when there are game corrupting/game stopping bugs which prevents from even getting to it.

 

But as time lags between content release, said content does increase in priority.

 

But the bugs weren't that bad.  Certainly didn't prevent me from accessing any content.  I finished AD3 with 3 parties before putting the game on hold.  Yes, there was the occasional bug which set back progress, but I could deal with it.  

 

The point about wanting the game out on phones makes sense.  But I think that was a bad business decisions.  If iPad users are not picking up this game, why would they think phone users would?  It would be an even more casual audience on an even more limited device.

 

The whole situation makes me sad.  This was a genuinely excellent implementation of PACG.  I enjoyed it way more than the physical game because it takes care of the logistics.  I would have loved to see SS and WotR in the future, but that seems increasingly unlikely when they can't even get AD4-6 out

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Seems to me that people are bit too out of sorts about the whole thing.  There's too much doom and gloom in this thread.  Its' a good game.  Won't stop being a good game if the next release isn't until October.  Don't make sense to get in a twist over it.

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As a bear in winter, so must I too hibernate soon.

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Seems to me that people are bit too out of sorts about the whole thing.  There's too much doom and gloom in this thread.  Its' a good game.  Won't stop being a good game if the next release isn't until October.  Don't make sense to get in a twist over it.

I definitely feel that way, but then again, I paid my 2 bucks for daily gold and that's it after seeing how long the game has been around. Other people who paid for the whole package back in May probably feel differently than I do, since they've sunk more into it. 

 

But yes, it's a very well done implementation of the game and I definitely feel like I got more than my $2 worth. 

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Threw down my quid and got my quo. Been happy. Just think of that. Game releases in May. All the blokes talking about how the game isn't released quickly enough. Been a few months and we have up through hook mountain. Card game is brilliant, but how many people had to buy card slips because of the China printing? What problems did the physical card game have? I just don't kin it to be a sky is falling moment personally. Not much bothered by people complaining, but I disagree with the depth of feeling.

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As a bear in winter, so must I too hibernate soon.

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Could be... but at this point I'm pretty much done with this app. As I mentioned I don't expect AD4 before end of October, and I expect we'll get AD6 by April/May 2017... and I also expect that was it as far as this game goes. I no longer expect us to get Skulls & Shackles and Wrath of the Righteous (let alone Mummy Mask) and those are actual AP's I was looking forward to playing.

 

Shame, maybe if Paizo choose someone more reliable then Obsidian we could have a great game...

More importantly they will have lost much of their revenue stream. No matter what happens with AD4-6, there is no way I'm dropping $25 again on a sight unseen release of Skulls or Wrath, etc. like I did for this game. They've lost a fundamental business trust between producer and consumer and that can take a long time to build back.

 

The very best I can see myself doing with a future Skulls release would be to ignore the game until all of its ADs are released, wait for a bug fix or two AND when the forums here and elsewhere agree that it is stable. Then I might consider playing it but only as F2P until I was sure I liked it. Alternatively I might just skip it as I've already moved on to other games (only my $25 purchase keeps me coming back to check on RotRL...I haven't even opened the game in 4 weeks and moved it into a folder to clean up my desktop).

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I totally agree with all the concerns and gripes. I'm super impatient for the next AD as well.

 

However, I'm starting to think I see the logic in getting the phone interface working now, from Obs AND Paizo perspectives. I'm guessing most of us coming over from the card game (I'll call us the hardcore) threw down $25----no problem. I'm guessing many of us play primarily on tablets, etc.

 

However, my guess is that Obs and Paizo really wanted to get into the phone market to pick up new users who have never played Pathfinder or the card game. You know, the people who don't play much but that Obs can make a few bucks off of. To do this, the game has gotta work on as many phone platforms as possible. Anyway, if this makes Obs more money (and gets Paizo more exposure), that might be good for the long term prospects for the game (and that would be good for the hardcore).

 

Plus, here is one more way to look at it, coming from the card game. For the same content that I received so on Pathfinder Adventures, I paid $100 for the physical card game equivalent. Still a good deal.....and will be a great deal if Obs kicks out AD4 as soon as possible!!!

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More importantly they will have lost much of their revenue stream. No matter what happens with AD4-6, there is no way I'm dropping $25 again on a sight unseen release of Skulls or Wrath, etc. like I did for this game. They've lost a fundamental business trust between producer and consumer and that can take a long time to build back.

The very best I can see myself doing with a future Skulls release would be to ignore the game until all of its ADs are released, wait for a bug fix or two AND when the forums here and elsewhere agree that it is stable. Then I might consider playing it but only as F2P until I was sure I liked it. Alternatively I might just skip it as I've already moved on to other games (only my $25 purchase keeps me coming back to check on RotRL...I haven't even opened the game in 4 weeks and moved it into a folder to clean up my desktop).

 

This. They've burnt their bridge with me. Spent the $25 and feel ripped off. That is not how you want your target audience to feel. I even gave up on the forums quite a while ago. Then I saw in the app store that I had an update. Loaded it in the morning and checked the forums at work. Guess what no new content plus additional bugs and folk's gold and chests disappeared. Well, super.

 

You know what they say. Fool me once. . .

 

If it comes out again I might go the FTP route. Not going the paid route again when the same money gets much more value from a humble bundle purchase. 

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I'm sure that all of you that think the developers aren't skilled enough to get WotR and SaS out are developers yourselves, yes?  You should take over the development of the game; perhaps Paizo will hire you in Obsidian's place.  Then when you release content to the game that is laden with bugs to the point that it's unplayable for a vast quantity of people, you'll understand why the developers decide to squash the bugs before releasing the new content.

 

I would wager that the game is doing just fine with what is currently available, and if they didn't take the time to get rid of the bugs, it'd be doing a lot worse than it is.

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I'm sure that all of you that think the developers aren't skilled enough to get WotR and SaS out are developers yourselves, yes?  You should take over the development of the game; perhaps Paizo will hire you in Obsidian's place.  Then when you release content to the game that is laden with bugs to the point that it's unplayable for a vast quantity of people, you'll understand why the developers decide to squash the bugs before releasing the new content.

 

I would wager that the game is doing just fine with what is currently available, and if they didn't take the time to get rid of the bugs, it'd be doing a lot worse than it is.

No I'm not a developer but I do have eyes and can think for myself...

 

I can see how long it take them to release AD4 and how they keep delaying it due to "unforeseen issues" that keep coming up. I also know what's coming up in later sets. Rise of the Runelords was the least complex of the three AP's released so far. There is no scenarios that change your hand size, no scenarios that require you to build a location during the scenario and all the other "nice" stuff we get there. And that is not even counting the completely new mechanic that is Ships and Cohorts... bottom line, if they have this much problem here it's not that farfetched to believe they will have even more problems when they get to those scenarios and those AP's.

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