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The US Election 2016, Part VI


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I actually think Nixon is a better person than the majority of our politicians today, based on two facts.  In 1960 the election was extremely close between him and JFK, and he could have challenged the outcome, there was plenty of whispers of fraud that might have turned the tide.  He chose not to, he didn't want to come across like a sore loser.  Then, after Watergate, he chose to resign.  I can't even imagine a politician doing that today.  Those both struck me as kind of honor among thieves moments.

He also had his "enemies lists" and a reputation for being verbally abusive of family and staff. Of course low character and high character can certainly co-exist. No one is so bad they don't have some redeeming qualities or so good they have no flaws. 

 

Still, I'd take a person which is verbally abusive over one who is corrupt and won't resign any day.

 

Are you referring to Hilary when you say  " who is corrupt and won't resign any day.  " 

 

That Hillary is corrupt (or at the VERY least irredeemably dishonest) is no longer a fact that can be disputed Bruce. I realize you picked you horse here and that's fine. As I posted before being dishonest or even corrupt does not mean she will not make an effective President necessarily. But you should be aware of what you are buying with her. 

 

And her bad qualities do not necessarily make Trump a better option for some folks. It's not for nothing we say elections here are about choosing the lesser evil.

 

Just to be clear, we are saying she is corrupt because of the whole email scandal and her private email server?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I actually think Nixon is a better person than the majority of our politicians today, based on two facts.  In 1960 the election was extremely close between him and JFK, and he could have challenged the outcome, there was plenty of whispers of fraud that might have turned the tide.  He chose not to, he didn't want to come across like a sore loser.  Then, after Watergate, he chose to resign.  I can't even imagine a politician doing that today.  Those both struck me as kind of honor among thieves moments.

He also had his "enemies lists" and a reputation for being verbally abusive of family and staff. Of course low character and high character can certainly co-exist. No one is so bad they don't have some redeeming qualities or so good they have no flaws. 

 

Still, I'd take a person which is verbally abusive over one who is corrupt and won't resign any day.

 

Are you referring to Hilary when you say  " who is corrupt and won't resign any day.  " 

 

That Hillary is corrupt (or at the VERY least irredeemably dishonest) is no longer a fact that can be disputed Bruce. I realize you picked you horse here and that's fine. As I posted before being dishonest or even corrupt does not mean she will not make an effective President necessarily. But you should be aware of what you are buying with her. 

 

And her bad qualities do not necessarily make Trump a better option for some folks. It's not for nothing we say elections here are about choosing the lesser evil.

 

Just to be clear, we are saying she is corrupt because of the whole email scandal and her private email server?

 

Do you read nothing that get's linked here? Seriously? That is one piece of a very, very big picture. The corruption is certainly debatable. Was she using the server to hide from FOI & Congress? Is the Clinton Foundation a pay to play vehicle for bribes, etc? We'll never know the truth. but there is a lot of evidence to suggest she not on the up and up. But her dishonesty about it all, and about many, many things she has said and done over the years is beyond dispute. She is a liar. She is a habitual liar. Even YOU would have to concede that. 

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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I actually think Nixon is a better person than the majority of our politicians today, based on two facts.  In 1960 the election was extremely close between him and JFK, and he could have challenged the outcome, there was plenty of whispers of fraud that might have turned the tide.  He chose not to, he didn't want to come across like a sore loser.  Then, after Watergate, he chose to resign.  I can't even imagine a politician doing that today.  Those both struck me as kind of honor among thieves moments.

He also had his "enemies lists" and a reputation for being verbally abusive of family and staff. Of course low character and high character can certainly co-exist. No one is so bad they don't have some redeeming qualities or so good they have no flaws. 

 

Still, I'd take a person which is verbally abusive over one who is corrupt and won't resign any day.

 

Are you referring to Hilary when you say  " who is corrupt and won't resign any day.  " 

 

That Hillary is corrupt (or at the VERY least irredeemably dishonest) is no longer a fact that can be disputed Bruce. I realize you picked you horse here and that's fine. As I posted before being dishonest or even corrupt does not mean she will not make an effective President necessarily. But you should be aware of what you are buying with her. 

 

And her bad qualities do not necessarily make Trump a better option for some folks. It's not for nothing we say elections here are about choosing the lesser evil.

 

Just to be clear, we are saying she is corrupt because of the whole email scandal and her private email server?

 

Do you read nothing that get's linked here? Seriously? That is one piece of a very, very big picture. The corruption is certainly debatable. Was she using the server to hide from FOI & Congress? Is the Clinton Foundation a pay to play vehicle for bribes, etc? We'll never know the truth. but there is a lot of evidence to suggest she not on the up and up. But her dishonesty about it all, and about many, many things she has said and done over the years is beyond dispute. She is a liar. She is a habitual liar. Even YOU would have to concede that. 

 

Why would I automatically believe something that is based on a subjective view of her motives?

 

Sorry GD but neither the email scandal or Clinton Foundation is irrefutable proof of her dishonesty but if you can share other things she did I would like to read them? I know you think I'm biased but Im not....I always look at any accusation objectively :geek:  

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Remember its about " proving how tough the USA is " as far as Trump is concerned

 

He would attack the Iranian navy, destabilize the Uranium enrichment deal and in turn make the entire ME more chaotic and unmanageable all because he " wants to show Iran cant bully the USA  " 

 

Why?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Well that kind of stance sells well to people that think international affairs is like dudes in a bar.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-commander-idUSKCN11D12K

 

Is no one concerned about this comment where Trump said Putin is a better leader than Obama?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I actually think Nixon is a better person than the majority of our politicians today, based on two facts.  In 1960 the election was extremely close between him and JFK, and he could have challenged the outcome, there was plenty of whispers of fraud that might have turned the tide.  He chose not to, he didn't want to come across like a sore loser.  Then, after Watergate, he chose to resign.  I can't even imagine a politician doing that today.  Those both struck me as kind of honor among thieves moments.

He also had his "enemies lists" and a reputation for being verbally abusive of family and staff. Of course low character and high character can certainly co-exist. No one is so bad they don't have some redeeming qualities or so good they have no flaws. 

 

Still, I'd take a person which is verbally abusive over one who is corrupt and won't resign any day.

 

Are you referring to Hilary when you say  " who is corrupt and won't resign any day.  " 

 

That Hillary is corrupt (or at the VERY least irredeemably dishonest) is no longer a fact that can be disputed Bruce. I realize you picked you horse here and that's fine. As I posted before being dishonest or even corrupt does not mean she will not make an effective President necessarily. But you should be aware of what you are buying with her. 

 

And her bad qualities do not necessarily make Trump a better option for some folks. It's not for nothing we say elections here are about choosing the lesser evil.

 

Just to be clear, we are saying she is corrupt because of the whole email scandal and her private email server?

 

Do you read nothing that get's linked here? Seriously? That is one piece of a very, very big picture. The corruption is certainly debatable. Was she using the server to hide from FOI & Congress? Is the Clinton Foundation a pay to play vehicle for bribes, etc? We'll never know the truth. but there is a lot of evidence to suggest she not on the up and up. But her dishonesty about it all, and about many, many things she has said and done over the years is beyond dispute. She is a liar. She is a habitual liar. Even YOU would have to concede that. 

 

Why would I automatically believe something that is based on a subjective view of her motives?

 

Sorry GD but neither the email scandal or Clinton Foundation is irrefutable proof of her dishonesty but if you can share other things she did I would like to read them? I know you think I'm biased but Im not....I always look at any accusation objectively :geek:  

 

Jesus Christ are you really going to make me do this again? Alright, but mister, you had best read ever last one of them!

 

Need I go on? I haven't even gotten to Whitewater of the other good stuff.

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"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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"Why do you doubt some of Trumps supporters are bigots...they are, trust me"

 

Some are.  Some Clinton supporters are too. You know the ones. The ones who chant 'DEATH TO WHITEY' as they march? You know, the ones who don't care about black lives like that black mother who was shot by a BLM punk.

 

 

"Is no one concerned about this comment where Trump said Putin is a better leader than Obama?"

 

I don't like Putin. He is a scumbag piece of crpa nazi but it is indisputable that he is a better leader than Obama.

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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I actually think Nixon is a better person than the majority of our politicians today, based on two facts.  In 1960 the election was extremely close between him and JFK, and he could have challenged the outcome, there was plenty of whispers of fraud that might have turned the tide.  He chose not to, he didn't want to come across like a sore loser.  Then, after Watergate, he chose to resign.  I can't even imagine a politician doing that today.  Those both struck me as kind of honor among thieves moments.

He also had his "enemies lists" and a reputation for being verbally abusive of family and staff. Of course low character and high character can certainly co-exist. No one is so bad they don't have some redeeming qualities or so good they have no flaws. 

 

Still, I'd take a person which is verbally abusive over one who is corrupt and won't resign any day.

 

Are you referring to Hilary when you say  " who is corrupt and won't resign any day.  " 

 

That Hillary is corrupt (or at the VERY least irredeemably dishonest) is no longer a fact that can be disputed Bruce. I realize you picked you horse here and that's fine. As I posted before being dishonest or even corrupt does not mean she will not make an effective President necessarily. But you should be aware of what you are buying with her. 

 

And her bad qualities do not necessarily make Trump a better option for some folks. It's not for nothing we say elections here are about choosing the lesser evil.

 

Just to be clear, we are saying she is corrupt because of the whole email scandal and her private email server?

 

Do you read nothing that get's linked here? Seriously? That is one piece of a very, very big picture. The corruption is certainly debatable. Was she using the server to hide from FOI & Congress? Is the Clinton Foundation a pay to play vehicle for bribes, etc? We'll never know the truth. but there is a lot of evidence to suggest she not on the up and up. But her dishonesty about it all, and about many, many things she has said and done over the years is beyond dispute. She is a liar. She is a habitual liar. Even YOU would have to concede that. 

 

Why would I automatically believe something that is based on a subjective view of her motives?

 

Sorry GD but neither the email scandal or Clinton Foundation is irrefutable proof of her dishonesty but if you can share other things she did I would like to read them? I know you think I'm biased but Im not....I always look at any accusation objectively :geek:  

 

Jesus Christ are you really going to make me do this again? Alright, but mister, you had best read ever last one of them!

 

Need I go on? I haven't even gotten to Whitewater of the other good stuff.

 

Thanks, I'll go through these before I comment 

 

"Why do you doubt some of Trumps supporters are bigots...they are, trust me"

 

Some are.  Some Clinton supporters are too. You know the ones. The ones who chant 'DEATH TO WHITEY' as they march? You know, the ones who don't care about black lives like that black mother who was shot by a BLM punk.

 

 

"Is no one concerned about this comment where Trump said Putin is a better leader than Obama?"

 

I don't like Putin. He is a scumbag piece of crpa nazi but it is indisputable that he is a better leader than Obama.

Putin is a better leader than Obama......seriously?

 

How is he a better leader....what has he done better than Obama?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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It doesn't matter if they hate everything from eskimos to the color of your shoes. None of that does. It's attacking the voters of another candidate, it's about as low as you can get as politician and leader.

 

Attacking another's candidates base support is basic strategy in politics. Which is something that also Trump does. It is strategy that aims to associate people that general public or certain demographic don't like with other candidate, so that they will have higher threshold to vote that other candidate, which makes it easier to lure them to vote yourself. It isn't nice strategy, but politics and politicians rarely are nice.

 

 

Thanks for broading the definition into something that borderlines that it is not. 

 

 

It doesn't matter if they hate everything from eskimos to the color of your shoes. None of that does. It's attacking the voters of another candidate, it's about as low as you can get as politician and leader.

Bit rich when you consider how Trump behaves like a low level forum troll. Certainly are a lot of trash backing Trump watching his rallies, but not sure of the percentage

 

 

Uh-huh. But have you seen him call Hillary supporters with any modern labels? Point being, Hillary is playing the game badly.

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
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"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

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By the way Bruce. Did you ever complete that little "homework" assignment I gave you? Learning about the creation of a company called Uranium One and Hillary Clinton's involvement in that?

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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"How is he a better leader....what has he done better than Obama?"

 

Putin has made his country 'great' again.

 

What has Obama done?  Push a race war. Has spammed anti police rhetoric while spreading misinformation - ie. blaminmg whitey when a black cop shoots a black suspect leading to riots that lead to black owned businesses being  destroyed. Has allowed a country like Iran to play him like a violin, has  allowed countries to laugh in his face when he makes an ultimatium and then does nothing when said countries cross the 'line' according to him. Has fully supported a  criminal like Hillary Clinton for president even thouh she wants to start WW3.

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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By the way Bruce. Did you ever complete that little "homework" assignment I gave you? Learning about the creation of a company called Uranium One and Hillary Clinton's involvement in that?

No I didnt because it would be unfair to scrutinize either candidate's history in this way   and then judge them on this type of past action

 

Things like the email scandal matter to me 

 

And I am being balanced, I could post daily inconsistencies of things Trump says that are inaccurate but I only post the " big "  things he says 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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"How is he a better leader....what has he done better than Obama?"

 

Putin has made his country 'great' again.

 

What has Obama done?  Push a race war. Has spammed anti police rhetoric while spreading misinformation - ie. blaminmg whitey when a black cop shoots a black suspect leading to riots that lead to black owned businesses being  destroyed. Has allowed a country like Iran to play him like a violin, has  allowed countries to laugh in his face when he makes an ultimatium and then does nothing when said countries cross the 'line' according to him. Has fully supported a  criminal like Hillary Clinton for president even thouh she wants to start WW3.

So Putin has a very high popularity rating.....so what, its irrelevant when compared to the damage he has caused Russia.

 

You do realize Russia has been in a recession for nearly 2  years?

Please read this link....how can you not think a failure to manage any economy by any government is a failure of leadership 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/11/news/economy/russia-economy-recession-six-quarters/index.html

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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By the way Bruce. Did you ever complete that little "homework" assignment I gave you? Learning about the creation of a company called Uranium One and Hillary Clinton's involvement in that?

No I didnt because it would be unfair to scrutinize either candidate's history in this way   and then judge them on this type of past action

 

Things like the email scandal matter to me 

 

And I am being balanced, I could post daily inconsistencies of things Trump says that are inaccurate but I only post the " big "  things he says 

 

And right there you just fell into the biggest trap of this election. You can't make a positive argument for one candidate without mentioning the other. They are, without a doubt, the two biggest turds to ever float in the electoral bowl at the same time. The only positive statement anyone can make about either is "well at least they are not the other one". 

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"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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By the way Bruce. Did you ever complete that little "homework" assignment I gave you? Learning about the creation of a company called Uranium One and Hillary Clinton's involvement in that?

No I didnt because it would be unfair to scrutinize either candidate's history in this way   and then judge them on this type of past action

 

Things like the email scandal matter to me 

 

And I am being balanced, I could post daily inconsistencies of things Trump says that are inaccurate but I only post the " big "  things he says 

 

And right there you just fell into the biggest trap of this election. You can't make a positive argument for one candidate without mentioning the other. They are, without a doubt, the two biggest turds to ever float in the electoral bowl at the same time. The only positive statement anyone can make about either is "well at least they are not the other one". 

 

:lol:  "turds " 

 

 

Oh by the way, it shouldn't be seen as huge negative because Johnson didnt know about Aleppo

 

There is nothing the USA can do because its the Syrians and Russians who are bombing the city...and now the Russians have agreed with the USA to a peace deal but why would Johnson know about Aleppo ?

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/09/09/russia-us-reach-cease-fire-deal-syria/90147222/

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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It doesn't matter if they hate everything from eskimos to the color of your shoes. None of that does. It's attacking the voters of another candidate, it's about as low as you can get as politician and leader.

Attacking another's candidates base support is basic strategy in politics. Which is something that also Trump does. It is strategy that aims to associate people that general public or certain demographic don't like with other candidate, so that they will have higher threshold to vote that other candidate, which makes it easier to lure them to vote yourself. It isn't nice strategy, but politics and politicians rarely are nice.

Thanks for broading the definition into something that borderlines that it is not.

 

It doesn't matter if they hate everything from eskimos to the color of your shoes. None of that does. It's attacking the voters of another candidate, it's about as low as you can get as politician and leader.

Bit rich when you consider how Trump behaves like a low level forum troll. Certainly are a lot of trash backing Trump watching his rallies, but not sure of the percentage

Uh-huh. But have you seen him call Hillary supporters with any modern labels? Point being, Hillary is playing the game badly.

Who knows given how he runs his mouth. Not sure she may be playing all that badly. Not like the group she insulted is up for grabs and there are people she can try to spook using the idea that a man willing to entreat with meshback racists is a Bad Thing.

 

Certainly isn't wrong, maybe 20% though.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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By the way Bruce. Did you ever complete that little "homework" assignment I gave you? Learning about the creation of a company called Uranium One and Hillary Clinton's involvement in that?

 

No I didnt because it would be unfair to scrutinize either candidate's history in this way   and then judge them on this type of past action

 

Things like the email scandal matter to me 

 

And I am being balanced, I could post daily inconsistencies of things Trump says that are inaccurate but I only post the " big "  things he says 

 

 

Are you really saying that a candidate's past performance in business and/or government isn't pertinent in judging their qualifications for POTUS?  Or is that just a convenient excuse that lets you sweep uncomfortable things under the rug?  

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On a side-note; a British guy tried to assassinate Trump back in June. I'd like to apologize to all Trump supporters on behalf of the British people for the actions of that moron - you know every country has got them.

I dunno. Pence might be an ok President.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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By the way Bruce. Did you ever complete that little "homework" assignment I gave you? Learning about the creation of a company called Uranium One and Hillary Clinton's involvement in that?

 

No I didnt because it would be unfair to scrutinize either candidate's history in this way   and then judge them on this type of past action

 

Things like the email scandal matter to me 

 

And I am being balanced, I could post daily inconsistencies of things Trump says that are inaccurate but I only post the " big "  things he says 

 

 

Are you really saying that a candidate's past performance in business and/or government isn't pertinent in judging their qualifications for POTUS?  Or is that just a convenient excuse that lets you sweep uncomfortable things under the rug?  

 

Dont get mad with me because you think both candidates are worthless,  all I'm saying is both people seem to have a history

 

But since you did ask, obviously Clinton has more experience in government. This is irrefutable 

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/8/27/1416000/-Hillary-Rodham-Clinton-The-Most-Experienced-Presidential-Candidate-This-Election-Cycle

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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By the way Bruce. Did you ever complete that little "homework" assignment I gave you? Learning about the creation of a company called Uranium One and Hillary Clinton's involvement in that?

 

No I didnt because it would be unfair to scrutinize either candidate's history in this way   and then judge them on this type of past action

 

Things like the email scandal matter to me 

 

And I am being balanced, I could post daily inconsistencies of things Trump says that are inaccurate but I only post the " big "  things he says 

 

 

Are you really saying that a candidate's past performance in business and/or government isn't pertinent in judging their qualifications for POTUS?  Or is that just a convenient excuse that lets you sweep uncomfortable things under the rug?  

 

this election is weird... weirder.  oh sure, all major elections track away from the issues and from actual candidate qualifications, but this Presidential election has predictable devolved to the point where the major topics being debated is candidate health and whether trump or clinton is the bigger jerk. other than broad-stroke ideological differences, the American people appear little concerned 'bout qualifications o' the candidates. that ain't shocking or different than in the past elections save for the degree to which qualifications has been marginalized. 

 

as you note, past performance in business and government would seeming be relevant, but mention tax returns and trump supporters sneer... and is no better for clinton folks.

 

weird.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps tax returns

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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