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The US Election 2016, Part VI


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Look how Kaine claps, look how he goes. Perfect timing!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1NhtqEHirs

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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The thing with experience is that it's only really a plus if you like what they've done. In the case of Clinton I see a lot of people making the experience claim both for and against her  :shrugz:

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP  supporters ?

 

:biggrin:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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It doesn't matter if they hate everything from eskimos to the color of your shoes. None of that does. It's attacking the voters of another candidate, it's about as low as you can get as politician and leader.

Attacking another's candidates base support is basic strategy in politics. Which is something that also Trump does. It is strategy that aims to associate people that general public or certain demographic don't like with other candidate, so that they will have higher threshold to vote that other candidate, which makes it easier to lure them to vote yourself. It isn't nice strategy, but politics and politicians rarely are nice.

Thanks for broading the definition into something that borderlines that it is not.

 

It doesn't matter if they hate everything from eskimos to the color of your shoes. None of that does. It's attacking the voters of another candidate, it's about as low as you can get as politician and leader.

Bit rich when you consider how Trump behaves like a low level forum troll. Certainly are a lot of trash backing Trump watching his rallies, but not sure of the percentage

Uh-huh. But have you seen him call Hillary supporters with any modern labels? Point being, Hillary is playing the game badly.

Who knows given how he runs his mouth. Not sure she may be playing all that badly. Not like the group she insulted is up for grabs and there are people she can try to spook using the idea that a man willing to entreat with meshback racists is a Bad Thing.

 

Certainly isn't wrong, maybe 20% though.

 

 

Gamers are dead after all.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Lets not leave Trump outside of mockery either: 

 

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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The thing with experience is that it's only really a plus if you like what they've done. In the case of Clinton I see a lot of people making the experience claim both for and against her  :shrugz:

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP  supporters ?

 

:biggrin:

 

Well, I'd imagine Chrs Stevens, Sean Smith, Tyrone Woods, & Glen Doherty might claim she is unqualified. But they can't because they are dead. She ignored them, left the to die and then lied to their families and the whole country (but not to her daughter, the President, or her inner circle apparently) about what happened.

 

But you don't want to hear about that do you Bruce? Wouldn't be "balanced" after all. 

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"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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I think it is a terrible misstep for Clinton to go full bore on the name calling.  Trump is better at it than her.

Don't wrestle a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it!

  • Like 1

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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The thing with experience is that it's only really a plus if you like what they've done. In the case of Clinton I see a lot of people making the experience claim both for and against her  :shrugz:

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP  supporters ?

 

:biggrin:

 

Well, I'd imagine Chrs Stevens, Sean Smith, Tyrone Woods, & Glen Doherty might claim she is unqualified. But they can't because they are dead. She ignored them, left the to die and then lied to their families and the whole country (but not to her daughter, the President, or her inner circle apparently) about what happened.

 

But you don't want to hear about that do you Bruce? Wouldn't be "balanced" after all. 

 

Thats a cheap shot .....uncalled for and not relevant 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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The thing with experience is that it's only really a plus if you like what they've done. In the case of Clinton I see a lot of people making the experience claim both for and against her  :shrugz:

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP  supporters ?

 

:biggrin:

 

 

Not necessarily

 

I do see some Trump supporters say she is unqualified but most of the people I've seen that argue against her experience don't do it to say she isn't qualified. It's more just they don't like some of the things she'd done or the stances she'd previously taken

 

Terrible example time - Take a politician you don't like and agree with, let's say Putin. Tons of experience but do you actually like his record? Do you agree with the things he's done?

Free games updated 3/4/21

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I think it is a terrible misstep for Clinton to go full bore on the name calling.  Trump is better at it than her.

Don't wrestle a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it!

 

Why is telling the truth not considered good etiquette?

 

I watched someone on CNN being very critical of what Hillary said and yes she embellished the overall number but I have seen examples of groups of Trumps supporters being very offensive

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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The thing with experience is that it's only really a plus if you like what they've done. In the case of Clinton I see a lot of people making the experience claim both for and against her  :shrugz:

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP  supporters ?

 

:biggrin:

 

clinton has experience.  is not same as being qualified.  to once again mention the foreign policy blunders o' the obama administration would be a dead end in a discussion with bruce.  am sorry, but you do a mighty fine ostrich impression when it comes to foreign policy blunders o' the obama administration.  has had same discussion multiple times and you always wanna start it anew.  sorry, but is true.  like it or not, clinton were involved in those foreign policy gaffes. 

 

*shrug*

 

that being said, as 'tween clinton and trump, we would choose clinton... particularly 'cause trump's grasp o' foreign policy issues is misinformed to the point where it is actual frightening to consider ramifications o' President Trump.  alternatively, trump positions on foreign relations ain't genuine and is tailored to resonate with a large number o' angry and ignorant americans who simple like to hear a candidate who talks tough and simple, which don't make us feel any better.

 

clinton's qualifications may be terrible, but trump is the alternative... and gd mentioning johnson as an option is gonna necessarily be a bit muted given the 3rd party candidate's recent public bafflement.  we got choices, none o' which is appealing.  

 

regardless, clinton does have experience, but that don't make her qualified.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps if kgambit or others wanna fight with bruce 'bout US foreign policy mistakes o' the last 8 years, so be it, but we has done the groundhog day shtick too many times for it to be funny. 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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By the way Bruce. Did you ever complete that little "homework" assignment I gave you? Learning about the creation of a company called Uranium One and Hillary Clinton's involvement in that?

 

No I didnt because it would be unfair to scrutinize either candidate's history in this way   and then judge them on this type of past action

 

Things like the email scandal matter to me 

 

And I am being balanced, I could post daily inconsistencies of things Trump says that are inaccurate but I only post the " big "  things he says 

 

 

Are you really saying that a candidate's past performance in business and/or government isn't pertinent in judging their qualifications for POTUS?  Or is that just a convenient excuse that lets you sweep uncomfortable things under the rug?  

 

Dont get mad with me because you think both candidates are worthless,  all I'm saying is both people seem to have a history

 

But since you did ask, obviously Clinton has more experience in government. This is irrefutable 

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/8/27/1416000/-Hillary-Rodham-Clinton-The-Most-Experienced-Presidential-Candidate-This-Election-Cycle

 

 

No you said (see the highlighted text) that past history wasn't a fair metric so it obviously doesn't matter except oh wait now apparently it does.  So which is it Bruce?  

 

PS:  Shady got it. 

 

 

@Gromnir - you know I get the deal about Trump's Tax returns, but to make this balanced how about Hillary turn over the transcripts of her speeches to Goldman-Sachs et al?  Jeez they're just speeches, what could possibly be so damaging to her?  *cough* Glass-Steagall *cough*

 

ps if kgambit or others wanna fight with bruce 'bout US foreign policy mistakes o' the last 8 years, so be it, but we has done the groundhog day shtick too many times for it to be funny.

 

    

Actually GD brought up a single issue up as example of how her experience WAS relevant. 

Edited by kgambit
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I think it is a terrible misstep for Clinton to go full bore on the name calling.  Trump is better at it than her.

Don't wrestle a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it!

 

 

 

Why is telling the truth not considered good etiquette?

 

 

Hmmm, maybe Hillary should try it sometime.  :biggrin: ​

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The thing with experience is that it's only really a plus if you like what they've done. In the case of Clinton I see a lot of people making the experience claim both for and against her  :shrugz:

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP  supporters ?

 

:biggrin:

 

 

Not necessarily

 

I do see some Trump supporters say she is unqualified but most of the people I've seen that argue against her experience don't do it to say she isn't qualified. It's more just they don't like some of the things she'd done or the stances she'd previously taken

 

Terrible example time - Take a politician you don't like and agree with, let's say Putin. Tons of experience but do you actually like his record? Do you agree with the things he's done?

 

No I think Putin has made numerous bad decisions .....there is no reason Russia has to feel the West wants to undermine them

 

For me  there are several things a good leader has to demonstrate like

 

  • The person must be democratically elected and be accountable to the people and media
  • The leader must consider the overall welfare of his citizens and ensure economic growth

Putin is none of these so for me he is a bad leader 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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The thing with experience is that it's only really a plus if you like what they've done. In the case of Clinton I see a lot of people making the experience claim both for and against her  :shrugz:

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP  supporters ?

 

:biggrin:

 

Well, I'd imagine Chrs Stevens, Sean Smith, Tyrone Woods, & Glen Doherty might claim she is unqualified. But they can't because they are dead. She ignored them, left the to die and then lied to their families and the whole country (but not to her daughter, the President, or her inner circle apparently) about what happened.

 

But you don't want to hear about that do you Bruce? Wouldn't be "balanced" after all. 

 

Thats a cheap shot .....uncalled for and not relevant 

 

No, we're talking about her management experience... it VERY relevant. 

  • Like 1

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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HRC and The Donald are, based on past positions, closer than Obama and either McCain or Romney. Naturally people fixate on the side circus. More entertaining and easier to understand than two candidates who've been on both sides of most issues anyway.

But all people want to discuss is Johnson's mister on Aleppo. Right? That Johnson fellow sure looked daft, din't he?

Edited by quidproquo

As a bear in winter, so must I too hibernate soon.

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The thing with experience is that it's only really a plus if you like what they've done. In the case of Clinton I see a lot of people making the experience claim both for and against her  :shrugz:

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP  supporters ?

 

:biggrin:

 

clinton has experience.  is not same as being qualified.  to once again mention the foreign policy blunders o' the obama administration would be a d

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps if kgambit or others wanna fight with bruce 'bout US foreign policy mistakes o' the last 8 years, so be it, but we has done the groundhog day shtick too many times for it to be funny. 

 

 

Guys please lets not be worried about discussing US foreign policy, I am very comfortable having this debate

 

Some of you guys feel Obama failed or made several blunders, I know some but what exactly would you guys say are " failures of the US foreign policy " ...just make bullet points if you want so I get the general idea 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I think it is a terrible misstep for Clinton to go full bore on the name calling.  Trump is better at it than her.

Don't wrestle a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it!

 

 

 

Why is telling the truth not considered good etiquette?

 

 

Hmmm, maybe Hillary should try it sometime.  :biggrin: ​

 :lol:  

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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@Gromnir - you know I get the deal about Trump's Tax returns, but to make this balanced how about Hillary turn over the transcripts of her speeches to Goldman-Sachs et al?  Jeez they're just speeches, what could possibly be so damaging to her?  *cough* Glass-Steagall *cough*

 

 

am with you on this.  am not getting how the "goldman-sachs" response became the reflexive argument to counter trump's reluctance to provide tax returns.  trump supporters wanna see transcripts?  ok.  fine.  how on earth does that diminish the value and relevance o' trump's tax returns? why don't trump supporters wanna see his tax returns? got a businessman with no political experience running for President.  so... tax returns.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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The thing with experience is that it's only really a plus if you like what they've done. In the case of Clinton I see a lot of people making the experience claim both for and against her  :shrugz:

Let me guess....the people who claim she is unqualified are......Trump and GOP  supporters ?

 

:biggrin:

 

clinton has experience.  is not same as being qualified.  to once again mention the foreign policy blunders o' the obama administration would be a d

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps if kgambit or others wanna fight with bruce 'bout US foreign policy mistakes o' the last 8 years, so be it, but we has done the groundhog day shtick too many times for it to be funny. 

 

 

Guys please lets not be worried about discussing US foreign policy, I am very comfortable having this debate yet again.

 

Some of you guys feel Obama failed or made several blunders, I know some but what exactly would you guys say are " failures of the US foreign policy " ...just make bullet points if you want so I get the general idea, because i can't be bothered to review the half dozen fruitless and previous incarnations of the foreign policy debates that exist on this board.

 

fixed

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 1

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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At the risk of being repetitive.... it does not have to be this way. You do not have to pick Clinton or Trump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2qtQdIMcSg

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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@Gromnir - you know I get the deal about Trump's Tax returns, but to make this balanced how about Hillary turn over the transcripts of her speeches to Goldman-Sachs et al?  Jeez they're just speeches, what could possibly be so damaging to her?  *cough* Glass-Steagall *cough*

 

 

am with you on this.  am not getting how the "goldman-sachs" response became the reflexive argument to counter trump's reluctance to provide tax returns.  trump supporters wanna see transcripts?  ok.  fine.  how on earth does that diminish the value and relevance o' trump's tax returns? why don't trump supporters wanna see his tax returns? got a businessman with no political experience running for President.  so... tax returns.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Trumps refusal to release his tax returns should be one of the biggest issues his supporters have as this demonstrates something he is prepared to hide

 

Its such a contradiction, Trump is constantly claiming he is a '' successful businessman " yet he cant even produce something as fundamental as this 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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@Gromnir - you know I get the deal about Trump's Tax returns, but to make this balanced how about Hillary turn over the transcripts of her speeches to Goldman-Sachs et al?  Jeez they're just speeches, what could possibly be so damaging to her?  *cough* Glass-Steagall *cough*

 

 

am with you on this.  am not getting how the "goldman-sachs" response became the reflexive argument to counter trump's reluctance to provide tax returns.  trump supporters wanna see transcripts?  ok.  fine.  how on earth does that diminish the value and relevance o' trump's tax returns? why don't trump supporters wanna see his tax returns? got a businessman with no political experience running for President.  so... tax returns.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I'm certainly not a Trump supporter.  And I don't claim to speak for them so I have no idea why they don't want him to release the documents.  Ask someone who supports him because I am NOT that guy. 

 

I'm simply pointing out that there is a certain balance and relevance to having both candidates release the respective documents.    I can not think of a single reason for either of them NOT to release those documents.   

Edited by kgambit
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