Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Gamescom talk - Josh needs help

counseling soul feedback wacky

  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#41
Tigranes

Tigranes

    Obsidian VIP

  • Members
  • 10491 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

That depends entirely on what 'types/roles' there exist in the game system. Not everything has to be fighter/mage/cleric, or tank/whatever other roles those MMO people always turn every game into, for example. 

 

I wouldn't mind 4, which is what I usually play IE games / POE on now, but that's because games are too often balanced to give way too many options and fallbacks for the player, so playing below the full party actually makes for interesting scarcity scenarios. That would ironically go away if they designed for 4 to begin with.


  • Nonek and Lychnidos like this

#42
Sacred_Path

Sacred_Path

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1328 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer


Anyway, I'd say that if it's fantastical nature of the setting we're discussing, major recurring themes of the setting are not exactly unimportant - and soul manipulation was one of the most intriguing and fantastical themes Pillars of Eternity operated with, albeit it was premise that was fantastical while its exploration much more grounded. Which... You know, was one of my favourite things about Pillars.

 

Sacred_Path, on 25 Aug 2016 - 9:12 PM, said:snapback.png

I've said repeatedly that Josh isn't actually aware of the problem I've pinpointed - either that or he doesn't admit it publicly (and with good reason, because it's one thing to say "our mechanics need tweaking" and another to say "on the whole our game was pretty uninspired").

 
Allow me to remind you that this discussion on "What did mr. Sawyer mean" started with this response to my post:

Sacred_Path, on 24 Aug 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:snapback.png

By "disappointed with PoE" I meant no more than "disappointed with this certain aspect of it", although I've seen enough people criticize the game at large. Still, Josh has taken notice of the problem so it's kind of pointless of you to deny it exists.

Which is where I started to try and figure out where has Josh Sawyer admitted it's a problem in the first place. Because without it, bringing up his name in the conversation is kind of pointless in the first place so I figured you probably know something I don't.

 

It's quite obvious that when he uses the word soul but then goes on to talk about silly characters, that's not the whole truth. Humour isn't synonymous with soul. There's no need for inside information here.



#43
Sacred_Path

Sacred_Path

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1328 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer


Not everything that requires a suspension of belief is wacky, nor is escapism always a silly thing, there are massive varieties of both these things that are not silly or wacky, horror, insanity, rage, sorrow, delusion, awe, greed, ultimate evil or good. I would say the game sticks out from Durance too much, exploring his story as a protagonist would have been a fantastic introduction to this world, personal and yet intrinsically connected to the themes they sought to introduce.

 

I remain convinced that adding wacky elements that frankly soured the BG series for me is not the answer to sorting out the problems I found in Poe, a better crafted, more well explored, thematically relevant and reinforced design through gameplay is what I would ask for rather than silliness. The fantastic elements are there already, they simply need exploring and reinforcing.

 

I intended wacky to mean anything epic, larger-than-life, and by extension, supernatural. Korgan laughing in the face of every terrible monster is such an element, as is the Planar Sphere with its planar travel and its theme of atonement, or the Underdark which is obviously like a flipside or parallel world of the surface world, with its almost comically twisted inhabitants. At times all these emotions you mention come into play here, and I have to say I find this epic delivery ultimately more touching than Pillars', much like a fairy tale can be more touching than a milieu study.


  • Nonek likes this

#44
Nonek

Nonek

    Not of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 3040 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

That's an extremely unusual and very broad definition of wacky if I may say so. Korgan I would say is well characterised and stays true to that character throughout. The Planar Sphere is an interesting and well implemented locale, the Underdark much the same. I would add that in comparison I find Pillars companions about equal all told, Durance and Korgan two of my favourite characters would no doubt get on like a house that they'd set on fire. Whereas if you are saying that Poe's locales suffer in comparison to BGs, then I would agree with you. The easiest example is Durlag's Tower versus Od Nua, nothing need be said here.

 

As for emotionally touching, I really wasn't affected by the BGs in this manner, Torment yes, the Ultimas of course, Krondor without a doubt, but the BG series was just an ARPG to me. Though as i've said before this is coloured by playing through the Ultima saga before BG and seeing it as an enormous decline in terms of features, worldbuilding, non combat gameplay, exploration and thematic strength.

 

Edit: I never went with a six man party in IWD, always used four, far better in my opinion.


Edited by Nonek, 26 August 2016 - 08:32 AM.


#45
Sedrefilos

Sedrefilos

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2060 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

I believe part 3 of the game, with the druid city, was pretty "wacky". Too much wacky then becomes silly. If you're hit by non-stop wackyness then you stop taking the game seriously after a while and, having in mind that anything can happen, nothing surprises you from a certain point after.

 

One good expample I have in mind as a comparison is the "Lost" TV series. The first 3 or 4 seasons were non-stop wacky yet mysterious, making you think of explanations of what might be actually happening. After that, you realized nothing adds up, it's just strange stuff for the sake of strangeness and you are not surprised nor getting excited by any twists the producer throw at you because you think that anything can happen. No rules apply whatsoever, so why not this, and this, and that? I dropped it before it was over (for the best as I later learnt :D ).

 

So, lack of "wackyness" not so much of a problem for Pillars as, maybe, lack of area diversity and inconsistent content quality (parts of game had much better writting/roleplay/quests/stories than others).



#46
Loren Tyr

Loren Tyr

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 858 posts

I intended wacky to mean anything epic, larger-than-life, and by extension, supernatural. Korgan laughing in the face of every terrible monster is such an element, as is the Planar Sphere with its planar travel and its theme of atonement, or the Underdark which is obviously like a flipside or parallel world of the surface world, with its almost comically twisted inhabitants. At times all these emotions you mention come into play here, and I have to say I find this epic delivery ultimately more touching than Pillars', much like a fairy tale can be more touching than a milieu study.

 

So,. you're using the word 'wacky' in a manner entirely disconnected from how it is defined in the English language? In a conversation entirely conducted in English? Yeah, what could possibly go wrong there...







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: counseling, soul, feedback, wacky

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users