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Some Thoughts on Daily Challenge...

Daily Challenge Suggestion

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72 replies to this topic

#61
wakasm

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The misreading continues.  I might need a potion of healing soon if this keeps up.  

  • I'm familiar with gold farmers.  Daily gold is capped.  You can't farm more in a daily system.
  • The challenges are the same.  if I am able to do do a challenge on Monday, I'm most likely also able to do it on Tuesday.  The gold I get between days isn't what is going to make this "exploitable" (even though it's not even exploitable)
  • You keep stressing these extreme examples as if I have a choice what challenges I get, how hard they are, and how much they pay out, and how much they synergize with each other.  
  • Farmers will/already are exploiting the other sources of gold... its irrelevant 
  • Farmers will farm anyway, and there is no economy for them to break other than not paying for a FREE TO PLAY GAME
  • It's not more gold.  It's the exact same amount of gold 
  • I don't even talk about everyone having unlocked everything? 
  • i didn't talk about buying a character, or it's relevance?
  • No, i don't want revenue hurt even more... (now that is an assumption)  which is why this is a better alternative 
  • IF they are losing money, it's not from being F2P, because they decided to MAKE it F2P.  They are losing money from bad experiences, like bugs, missing content, slow content, people quitting because there is nothing new, etc, burn-out.  (which is all completely irrelevant to this post...)
  • IF they are losing money from gold grinding, it has nothing to do with daily quests, because as mentioned, it's not even the optimal way to get gold!

Now the big misguided response

  • Frequently (every 2-3 days) is just as healthy as Daily for an app.  Keeping someone in an ecosystem is healthy. 
  • There is nothing stopping or encouraging from being in the app daily in both scenarios
  • Daily, especially in a game that is missing content, is less healthy for everyone due to burn-out, except for those who want to be here daily, which is the minority of people, which has been pointed out multiple times

And the biggest one:

  • Inaccessibility is the whole point of this post... make the daily challenges more accessible, with a better system, like a queueable 3 quest system.  It's called a Quality of Life change.   Improving the accessibility of these challenges improves the QOL.  
  • The daily challenge system is like, the least priority in this game.  It doesn't even require this much discussion. 

At this point, I'm convinced you aren't even reading anything anymore and just coming up with random stuff lol.  

 

I mean, we can keep going forever!  Devs are watching this thread, so maybe it amuses them.  Just need popcorn!


Edited by wakasm, 18 August 2016 - 11:13 PM.

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#62
Chris_R

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Developers need to avoid "feels bad" moments whenever it's reasonable to do so. The daily challenge timer is a HUGE source of "feels bad" for players and there's no earthly reason for it to be. I hope it is changed in the future.

 

I feel a little bad about this, because the post this is quoted from is largely excellent. But this bit absolutely is not at all excellent.

 

I bought this game on Android, where it has sales figures in the tens of thousands. I don't have figures for other OS.

 

This thread has, charitably, including yourself, 7 or 8 people who express some kind of dissatisfaction with the daily challenges, and is dominated by 2 voluble posters who have a range of issues with them. There is no earthly justification for saying that there is a huge issue here. Any developers who immediately acted because 2 people on a forum were cross about a new mechanic, that appears to be working as designed, in a product owned, at least, by tens of thousands, would be absolutely barking mad.

 

The way gaming forums work is very simple. No matter what any change is made of any kind, someone, probably more than one someone, will immediately go onto the forum and complain, vocally about it. Every single time. If Obsidian sent every user a kitten, the very first thing that would happen would be someone logging on to the forum to start a thread vowing never to buy Obsidian products ever again because of their cat allergy. Nobody would initially log in going 'wow, thanks for the kitten guys, this kitten is awesome', even if the kittens made you breakfast and shot lasers out of their eyes at your least favourite political figures. They would probably only starting doing so once the anti-kitten guys started demanding free llamas or utahraptors instead.

 

That does not mean those issues are without foundation, and absolutely does not mean that the devs should not be listening. The fact that some people have enough of an issue to be motivated to post - and have made sensible suggestions - is worth hearing out, reflecting on.

 

But there is no justification with the numbers we have here to say that the devs have obviously made a mistake, that the devs are obviously lazy, incompetent or haven't thought this through, or that there is an issue here that obviously and immediately needs to be changed. Because the other thing about this thread is that quite a few people have also been motivated enough to post saying they don't see a problem. So the devs have to balance those people who say they aren't happy with those who say they are and consider that if they make changes, they have to make changes that make those people currently saying they're unhappy happier without annoying people who are currently happy. This is not always an easy balance.

 

Never, ever assume the views you express online are representative of anyone or anything other than your own, or that because some people say a thing online that thing is important or even true.


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#63
Bajie

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Ok, we can say simply that challenges have 2 different resolutions:
 
- a fast resolution, if you have all abilities you need AND characters you need AND unlocked scenarios you need AND high experience to link all that together AND you are open to stratagem for extra 150-200 gold. In other words if you are an expert player that burn gold because you have already 80%+ of discovered treasury card. No offense, just verification.
(I completely forgot about evade on top and General Store .. and I haven't used it later anyway)
 
- a slow resolution, if you miss ANY point of above. For new players or normal players (both p2p or f2p).
(If you don't have evade on top for example you have to play almost two hours to complete the challenge normally with medium quality decks)
 
We can also say that playing a normal game is what let us get fun in the game. So if you pass minutes on a stratagem to do 30 evade on top in a row is quite different and perhaps boring, and you do that just to have 150-200 gold fast.
 
So different play style for different players that get fun in similar way but not identical, with no difference between p2p or f2p categories.


In both case, the challenges makes you invested a little more in the game either timewise or moneywise, which is good for the dev and in a long run good for the game.

The challenge doesn't let you not play the way you like, it opens a possibility that the game can be played outside your comfort zone and at leasts entices and offer you to play a different way. If this is not possible for you, then yeah, the challenge maybe not suited for your gameplay but of course you can still play the game you want the way you want it.

If you look at the current list of known challenges, most of them can be played in a single scenario (40 minutes even 30 minutes per is a bit slow stretch here), even with most basic cards or at the lowest of level (e.g. touched by the gods, 30 damages, 30 banes). Most of the complains here is that the mechanic is bad because I don't want/cant to login everyday when one of the reason it is put in the first place is to make you login daily.
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#64
RedPred

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Not possible your interpretation. We are complaining because players that can do a scenarios a day because don't have half a day as others or don't remember all locations powers or don't have unlocked every ability/power or have simpler decks than yours need more than a single scenario per day to complete almost all the challenge.

 

Easy solution: maintaining active the challenge for more than a single day.

 

But there are players that absolutely disagree if a student who have to study all the night for an examination or a guy with a family that have to take care of his children or the worker with a longer day in office can complete a funny challenge... they have to lose that possibility! how pathetic they sound!

 

All for the exclusive right to be the only true expert of the game that earn 150 game currency bonus a day.... no words to say how unhappy they appear!

 

Philosophic reasoning about cash income reduction of a great software company who decided to release a f2p game of a wonderful board game! ... no words to say how incompetent these statements are in a business contest......

 

I have better chance to explain Np-hard problem to a child... 



#65
Bajie

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How is it not possible to complete something as assisting someone 15x in a day? As of now,some players are gathering data for existing challenges and how to complete them so those having a hardtime with it can have an idea how to approach it efficiently?

And the solution I'm against is Stackable multiple unlimited time quest..persistent single quest that doesnt change if you done complete or abandon it would be ok for compromise.


And again, if youre not complaining about missing out on gold, there is a list currently being made on existing challenge which you can look and choose and compete on your own when you are able to play to begin with.

Its not about exclusivity, its about offering someone who plays it frequently some reward apart from someone who occassionally play. Because a game should behave like that..the more you play, the more it should reward you because if not whats the point of playing more?

Because the business model of a F2P game without exclusive content for paying customer and without some competitive environment should have something leaning towards the paying client more favorably. With the introduction of an additional gold generation swings the game more favorable to me as a F2P player?

And what is the daily cap for gold gain here, I haven't encountered it before..i'm playing today and passed 2k gold on legendary today in a short amount of time (not because im "pro", its because its doable) and if an AP cost 4k gold, thats almost half the cost which begs to question why would someone pay for it in real money when its so easy to just buy it in gold ingame?

#66
Ripe

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And this is why western civilization is going to crash and burn... in face of adversity (no matter how small or inconsequential) we no longer try to surpass and overcome it. We no longer try to adapt. We whine and complain (or at least some of us).

 

Today it's Daily challenges, few weeks ago it was Nighbelly Boa in Quest mode and next week will be something else.


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#67
boxerboyhomer

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This is the problem with opinions:

 

Yours:

I'm a customer.  I'm allowed to apply feedback and want things. This is how capitalism and being a consumer works. 

 

The game would be better if they implemented this. 

 

 

Mine:

I'm a customer.  I'm allowed to apply feedback and want things.  This is how capitalism and being a consumer works. (These last two aren't actually accurate, but we'll ignore them for now)

 

The game would be terrible if they implemented wakasm's ideas.

 

See the problem?  You argue that Obsidian should implement something because you like it in another game.  Great.  You've voiced your opinion.  Good job.  But this isn't another game.  And the Obsidian devs, while grateful I'm sure for feedback, don't need you to tell them how to do their job.

 

I think the current system is great.  And there's a reason I play this game instead of others like Hearthstone.  I don't like the way other games are designed and I do this game.

 

But my opinion doesn't trump yours, it's just different.  And no, you'll never convince me that your opinion is better.  


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#68
boxerboyhomer

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Also, just because someone can't complete a daily challenge doesn't mean there's a problem with the challenge system.  The challenges are there for those who wan't to do them.  If you don't want to, don't.  If you can't, then the challenge isn't for you.  

 

I don't want the daily challenges turned into non-challenges by allowing them to sit around.  

 

Maybe the devs will introduce 3-day duration challenges.  Some will be just as easy as the current ones for those who don't/can't log in every day.  Others will be harder, multi-part challenges for folks like me.  

 

Not all content has to be accessible to all play styles.


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#69
kurtalb1

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I can't believe this topic has gotten so controversial.  In the overall scheme of things, this feature (in my opinion) is such a minor aspect of the game.  It's a cute little bonus that I'll do them if I feel like it and won't if I don't.  Then again, I actually paid for the game, so the gold isn't that big of a deal for me and I get plenty of it playing Quest Mode.  To each their own, I guess.


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#70
PinkRose

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Wow, Chris_R, you should post more.

Just not in this thread. It's stinky and should be left alone now.


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#71
Pediatron

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Wow, I am kinda shocked to see so much emotion attached to a new feature that is only a week old. First, i would like to applaud the developers for adding something new. I personally look forward to 5 pm each day to see what the new challenge is. I had earlier started a thread regarding keeping interest in the game while we (continue to) wait for AD4. I find the daily challenge a nice solution at least for me. It gives me a reason to log on and play a little everyday. I understand people are busy I am a full time Pediatrician and mom to 2 kids - often working long hours and weekends, but I still can manage a little bit of time each day. And if I don't manage to log in or finish the challenge -- I didn't actually LOSE anything. I just didn't gain something extra. 

I acknowledge that no new feature will be loved by everyone, but this thread does seem to have lost its original topic -- of allowing MULTIPLE users to express their ideas regarding this very new feature.


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#72
Hannibal_PJV

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So true!

#73
wakasm

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I can't believe this topic has gotten so controversial.  In the overall scheme of things, this feature (in my opinion) is such a minor aspect of the game.  It's a cute little bonus that I'll do them if I feel like it and won't if I don't.  Then again, I actually paid for the game, so the gold isn't that big of a deal for me and I get plenty of it playing Quest Mode.  To each their own, I guess.

 

I agree that this daily quest feature is small and most likely not a huge priority (which I have stated multiple times).  However, in the grand scheme of things, this is, in my opinion, another small thing that can be improved upon, and thus, should not be swept under the rug as it all adds up. 

 

This thread got so long, because as usual, certain members of this forum think it's ok to trivialize other's opinions if their opinions are negative, vs just letting people post their opinions and be done with it. 

 

Either way, the devs have said they are looking into it, and there have been mostly good points brought up on both sides, and multiple people have said they agree or disagree.  So it's not like a 1-off issue and a good debate is good for everyone. 

 

At end of the day - this is a FORUM.  A place for people to discuss anything related to the Pathfinder Adventures App.  People who think otherwise, or who think all comments should either be short, positive, or whatever mold they see fit really should realize how the internet and being a consumer works. 

 

 

Wow, Chris_R, you should post more.

Just not in this thread. It's stinky and should be left alone now.

 

Yes, we understand, you already pointed out that we as consumers are not entitled to things we want.  <link>

 

Yes, we understand we should go play something else if we are unhappy. <link>

 

Yes, our opinions are stinky, and our discussions should be left alone... thanks for that too. <link>

 

This should all be stickied somewhere so people don't come into these forums and try to leave feedback.  Can a mod sticky these for newcomers? Please?


Edited by wakasm, 19 August 2016 - 12:24 PM.






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