What You Did Today

[Longknife]

 

Got banned from my third game community for criticizing the game.

 

Look, I'm fully willing to admit that things get heated when people develop personal ****ing grudges towards you when you criticize their game, and I'll fully admit I'm not the most polite person the fourteenth time I have the same brigade of rabid fans following me around shouting down my criticism.

 

Having said that, I do find it REAL ****ing convenient it's always the minority opinion and the critic that is expected to uphold the "be polite" rules, the very people I was speaking with who equally lost their cool do not seem to be hit with any such slap on the wrist, and that two of these three communities have lept past any warning system, instead immediately springing to permanent bans. Yes, I get it. You can absolutely argue I am the "heart of darkness" in the quarrel, but I would be quick to argue that anyone is going to become a heart of darkness if they cannot walk two feet without people with personal vendettas arriving to shout you down. Should I really be punished for the heat of things while those that stood opposed with me walk free...? If you read this and think "maybe it's time to question if you aren't the problem," well quite frankly it's difficult to believe that when people guilty of the EXACT same degree of hostility (which in and of itself seems like a debateable reason when referring to regular members rather than new accounts that haven't a calm post to their name) are completely unscathed by any moderation action.

 

Yes, it's a game forum. Who cares, right? Right. I'm not bothered by this because boohoo cross another forum of the list of places to drop by. I'm bothered by it cause seeing the amount of people in society that are absolutely phobic of criticism is absolutely alarming to me. What's more, the first time I could easily believe someone genuinely felt I was the guilty party. And while I may not sound it, yes, I am very self-critical, so even though I can sit here with my gut saying "this is BS," I will absolutely spend a long time wondering if I truly am the problem.

Yeah, they must be 'phobic to criticism' or it might just be you're a total ****.

 

 

Hey man, trust me, I've given both consideration.

 

Took a step back actually though, read the convo I suspected, and I actually wasn't swearing, let alone any personal insults. Likeiwse, it truly is a no-warnings-your-gone scenario with a community I've been a part of for months, not to mention the same mod that banned me did not reply when I asked why the ban happened, even though I was welcomed to do so and sent the message not 5 minutes after the ban.

 

If you don't like me, that's fine, but when I reviewed that particular one, I actually am puzzled at this point. Lord knows I swear plenty, lord knows I speak my mind. But in that particular scenario, what happened was someone stepped into a conversation and just asked "why do you continue bothering talking to these guys if you yourself say you sense passive aggression," and from there the convo was more or less me and that guy talking; him asking genuine questions, me answering.

[melkathi]

Moderators are one of those cases where once they get in they can keep their job, since they are the ones handling the complaints about themselves.

[Gfted1]

in my case it's not. i never found anything fun about dancing, especially those traditional dances, and i just can't stand the music that goes along. when i see people dance like that, i'm always wondering if they really enjoy what they do or they somehow brainwashed themselves to think that they do... or they simply pretend to have fun doing it because everyone else is pretending too and they don't want to look uncool?

well, in the end the thing works both ways: i can't understand what's so fun about dancing, and those who find it fun can't understand how can i not find it fun

Hehe yeah, I couldn't dance if my feet were on fire but I enjoy watching some of the traditional dances from time to time at festivals and stuff. 

 

Moderators are one of those cases where once they get in they can keep their job, since they are the ones handling the complaints about themselves.

Not here. All complaints are handled by committee.

[teknoman2]

does that mean that no consensus is ever reached and all complaints end up ignored?

[Gfted1]

Consensus is always reached and we only ignore the dumb complaints.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Reporting for jury duty. Looks like a cute girl on Tinder is here, might go to lunch or bump into her in the bathroom.

[Raithe]

Getting the phone call of a job offer with the key thing being you start immediately.  Just happens to be the day after you've been put on the sicknote for minor post-op recovery and you can't work for two weeks.

 

[Blarghagh]

Consensus is always reached and we only ignore the dumb complaints.

 

Which, to be fair, is most of them.

[Azdeus]

Passed my theory test, got 96% correct. Feels good, just need to pass the practical test now and I've got that licence

[Gromnir]

 

Not here. All complaints are handled by committee.

 

a committee of fellow moderators. am also suspecting that not all complaints of individual moderators actual go to committee.  if bob complains 'bout finovar to finovar, is up to finovar to bring that complaint to the review committee, yes? 

 

*shrug*

 

is extreme rare Gromnir has an issue with a moderator which results in a complaint.  one time we "complained" public 'bout a mod by expressing surprise at his/her being recent chosen to mod. the mod had recent been involved in a apoplectic confrontation with our self and the confrontation had shocked us at the time as we were, surprisingly, not being the least bit confrontational our self at the time.  were some general anti-american rhetoric from the new mod and other nonsense.  the new mod apologized retroactive for the post, but am doubtful the issue went to committee.  

 

another one o' our infrequent complaints were 'bout treatment of karzak by a mod, but our complaint were limited to pm 'tween the mod and our self.  mod admitted the specific karzak behavior that elicited censure  would not have been a problem if posted by many other posters, but given the mod's knowledge and past dealings with karzak, he decided to take action.  we observed that application o' the board rules in such an ad hoc, personal and inequitable manner rendered the board rules meaningless.  rules is different for Gromnir than for bruce? am having a hard time believing our "complaint" were reviewed by committee.  we complained in a pm. the mod discussed briefly. the mod dismissed our concerns. the end.

 

no doubt gifted can see the inherent flaw in the system that requires the mod to bring the complaint to committee, yes? 

 

*shrug*

 

where does one direct complaints of mods to be ensuring they go to committee?  am asking for future reference.  am doubting an obsidian administrator goes through all moderator posts and pms to ensure that complaints is being proper routed to committee.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps yes, Gromnir actual complained to moderators regarding karzak being treated unfair by mods.  our defense o' karzak alone shoulda' given the mod in question pause. 

[Gfted1]

where does one direct complaints of mods to be ensuring they go to committee?  am asking for future reference.  am doubting an obsidian administrator goes through all moderator posts and pms to ensure that complaints is being proper routed to committee.

You are correct that PM's are only viewed and responded to by the recipient.

 

Now if someone clicks the "report" link found beneath every single post its different. Then that post, and whatever grievance the "reporter" has, creates an independent thread that only we mods, globals, and Fionavar can see. All people who mod the forum where the report originated receive a bright orange notification on our UI and then we go read the complaint and all chit chat about it. Each of us give our .02 and then if it is deemed to require action, the moderator of that particular forum will contact the "offender". If it doesn't require action, we don't do anything.

 

So, complaints are automatically routed to the appropriate people if you use the "report" button.

[Gromnir]

curious:

 

is the old policy that board rules is applied ad hoc and inequitable the norm or simple a quirk o' the mod with whom we conversed?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

curious:

 

is the old policy that board rules is applied ad hoc and inequitable the norm or simple a quirk o' the mod with whom we conversed?

 

HA! Good Fun!

While there are black and white situations where we show little to no latitude, generally speaking, I try to take the poster and their history into consideration when I am forming an opinion on a reported post. I do not know the details of your PM conversation but I would consider a PM to be a kind of informal conversation and wouldn't necessarily run it up the chain.

[Hurlshort]

Got banned from my third game community for criticizing the game.

 

I think you need to think about the way you post.  For example, I agreed with pretty much all of your criticisms about Fallout 4.  But when the game came out, you took over the thread we had here about the game.  You posted these long essays about all the things Bethesda did wrong.  Given that the game had just come out, many of us were making our way through the beginning and still trying to form our own opinions.  You kind of drowned out all other discussions, and you were repeating yourself regularly.  When I said something about it, you snapped at me.  We all repeat stuff here, in fact a lot of threads are cyclical, but if you take a moment to pause and reflect on whether you've made your point already, it will save you a good deal of sanity.  

 

Your criticisms may be spot on, but that doesn't mean they need to dominate every thread.  Give people space to form their own opinions, try not to repeat yourself too often, and don't forget this is supposed to be fun.  I would hope we all come here to relax and enjoy pleasant discussions on games and other interests.  It's not a competition and no one is going to win the forum someday.   

[Gromnir]

"As a result, equity must be applied to a certain extent - and unfortunately for some - on a case by case basis."

 

am not gonna out anybody, but am disappointed to hear that old scheme is still in place.  if you got a rule that "for some" is applied different than for others, then you ain't actual applying the rule equitably. 

 

*shrug*

 

am sensing another dead end, and this thread ain't the appropriate venue regardless.  disappointed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

We need moderation by combat

[Longknife]

 

Got banned from my third game community for criticizing the game.

 

I think you need to think about the way you post.  For example, I agreed with pretty much all of your criticisms about Fallout 4.  But when the game came out, you took over the thread we had here about the game.  You posted these long essays about all the things Bethesda did wrong.  Given that the game had just come out, many of us were making our way through the beginning and still trying to form our own opinions.  You kind of drowned out all other discussions, and you were repeating yourself regularly.  When I said something about it, you snapped at me.  We all repeat stuff here, in fact a lot of threads are cyclical, but if you take a moment to pause and reflect on whether you've made your point already, it will save you a good deal of sanity.  

 

Your criticisms may be spot on, but that doesn't mean they need to dominate every thread.  Give people space to form their own opinions, try not to repeat yourself too often, and don't forget this is supposed to be fun.  I would hope we all come here to relax and enjoy pleasant discussions on games and other interests.  It's not a competition and no one is going to win the forum someday.   

 

 

First thing I wanna clarify: I am well aware that people read my statements online as hostile. Take my word for it that I never feel openly angry or hostile or upset or wtf ever when posting. The most I get is perplexed fascination with watching things unfold in ways I can't understand. Having said that, sorry if I "snapped at you," I can assure you I didn't attend it to be hostile. For me, the most I ever want to do is avoid beating around the bush or avoid brushing off good points, so for example if someone were to claim something akin to "we need more time before we should jump to conclusions about the overall quality," I consider that beating around the bush because that in and of itself is a non-argument. If evidence thusfar on a topic suggests something (for example that FO4 is bad), then "we should wait to see if it's just a bad first impression" is a non-argument that I would "snap" at. (and no not accusing you of doing this, giving an example for the sake of explaining myself) And if I feel I'Ve got a good point that's ignored? Yes, I'll bring it back up and if an individual in particular seems to be purposefully avoiding acknowledgement cause it's a hard pill to swallow, I will point it out to them again. I'm well aware I'm bold and brash, but for what it's worth, I cannot recall a conversation online where I ever felt angry, or any other strong emotion for that matter, so if you can take my word for it, there it is.

 

Having said that, I find the idea of dominating a thread to be very odd. Everyone is free to skip over my posts. That's exactly why you never see me call out people that say "tl;dr" or complain about the size. By all means, it's not like people are required to read what I say, and if they don't like what I say, I fully welcome them not to. I want to voice my opinion on matters just like everyone else. If I voice my opinion more frequently or with more written backing it up, I don't see how this should discourage anyone else from harboring their own opinions unless they're in direct conflict, in which case....well wtf, that's my point. Why should people be upset if it comes down to "oh no, a person on the internet disagrees with me and he's making good points!" If someone makes a good point, cool, accept it. If it's difficult to accept, why? That's my focus, that's my worry.

 

On the subject of the gaming industry in particular, yeah, I am impatient I'll admit, because it itself sees constant drops in quality because while people may eventually realize a game saw a drop in quality, they do so too slow for it to have a meaningful impact on the game as a whole. You named FO4 as an example, I did not buy it. I thought about what was shown at E3, and after maybe a week or two, determined I expected a drop in quality. Great, I didn't purchase, I "voted with my wallet," but many more gave it a shot, and several more will give FO5 a shot simply on the blind hope it'll be good and regardless of it's actual previews, and the cycle is gonna continue. It's very sad to watch, in my opinion, because it feels like a case where consumers constantly convince themselves something won't suck in hopes of filling an entertainment void, and then it does and what we lost was the potential for something better, had consumers only been more critical. I explain all of that moreso just to give you an idea why I have that beef, though that does not change that okay, I may be bound to come across as abrasive. I suppose I should accept that as a side effect, since honestly I do not feel a desire to change what I care about in such discussions.

 

And nah, it's not about winning. I would happily concede if and when I'm wrong. For me, as I said, it's more about how with the topic of gaming in particular, this image sums up how I often view the gaming community as a collective, and what saddens me is less "no my hobby is dying" and more that this pattern can continue in a number of ways and a number of industries to the detriment of the average joe.

 

Anyways, sorry for talking your ear off, it's what I do. If anyone cares (lolno), I might reveal what community this is exactly once I get confirmation it really is a 0 to 100 permaban for the conversation I suspect, simply because I think the community may say a little something about why I feel less guilt with this one in particular. Not really in a rush to get an answer from their mod staff yet, who have until now ignored my message, simply because the current election news is clearly more interesting and important.

[Nonek]

If it's of any use Longknife, what I do when criticising something is to intersperse my negative points with positive ones, this creates an opening for those who are arguing with you to see your point of view, informs them that you see theirs, and perhaps even admit that some of each others points are valid. It gives a little wriggle room in a conversation and builds empathy, which is essential in communication I think. It's also not so hard, there are good and bad points to everything, and even the most faint praise can pass muster as a compliment.

 

Maybe worth giving it a try, though i'm hardly a master debater or a cunning linguist.

 

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

[Longknife]

If it's of any use Longknife, what I do when criticising something is to intersperse my negative points with positive ones, this creates an opening for those who are arguing with you to see your point of view, informs them that you see theirs, and perhaps even admit that some of each others points are valid. It gives a little wriggle room in a conversation and builds empathy, which is essential in communication I think. It's also not so hard, there are good and bad points to everything, and even the most faint praise can pass muster as a compliment.

 

Maybe worth giving it a try, though i'm hardly a master debater or a cunning linguist.

 

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

 

 

You're right, but you're also right it's quid pro quo in a way with all the different ways you can approach. A part of me is stubborn and doesn't want to have to "seduce" people into listening, and it bothers me that people can't just acknowledge solid points for being solid points. Undoubtedly though, what you suggest would work, as I recall a study that found when you call people out on being wrong about something, human nature makes it so people have a tendency to double down on their stance rather than concede. Hell, you could call someone out for saying the sky is green, and they'd likely double down instead of saying they were wrong. I mean in a way, even my post above showcases this in that it's more "let me at least explain the method to my madness" rather than me admitting wrongdoing. Sure, I could be more polite or soft about how I voice my opinions, but I guess in the end I do have my reasonings for doing things the way I do, and I guess I have to realize that being upset if people get annoyed with me about it is a sort of "having my cake and eating it too." Yes, it's upsetting to feel unwelcome, but I suppose I should remember that I did choose to condone myself in this way and quite frankly...? I can't say for certain, but I get the sense you all would be rather shocked if you spoke with me face to face. It seems to me I give the impression I'm this abrasive, pushy, stubborn ass that only cares about results. The reality is much of the reason I am this way online is because if you are going to upset someone and call them out on something, online is probably the kindest, most inoffensive way you can do it; online is my place to call people out on things I normally wouldn't because I can't stand upsetting people.

 

Really the only "annoyance" that remains? Every so often I get a "shadow" in the form of a member of a community that just does not like me, and decides to go on a crusade every time I post and to immediately start something. Understandably that's frustrating, because all it takes is 1-2 of those and it amplifies my issues, because now suddenly I can't post anywhere without a quarrel of some kind. Still, choosing to engage with them is still my decision at the end of the day, because once again, I would rather repeat myself and make it clear that person fails to respond to points instead of just ignoring them. Anyways, I do appreciate the input.

[Nonek]

Even the greatest general in the moment of his Triumph had a slave whisper the Momento Mori in his ear, there is nothing wrong with the blunt application of honesty from time to time.

[teknoman2]

it's very shaky today, there was a small earthquake about 60km away from where i live this morning. while the quake itself was not too strong (they didn't even bother mentioning it in the news), there are lots of aftershocks all day long 

[Guard Dog]

Working from home today. I'm preparing my part of a Power Point presentation for the TN House Agriculture & Natural Resources Committee when they get back to work next month. It's pretty boring stuff. Just a regression analysis on riverbank erosion post-reinforcement with the change in river current patterns. And they DO change. A lot. Something I never realized or realized was important. 

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I got one of my laptops back from Dell after sending it back to replace a defective keyboard (normally I'd open it up and do the fix myself but it was still under warranty and I figured that I should use that instead of invalidating it). Thus far it seems to be working so that's good.

[Azdeus]

Got my drivers licence! **** YEAH!!!

[Gfted1]

HUZZAH!