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My Name Is Bob

Wizards are completely useless!

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So i love all classes in POE but this one i hate. Here are my top reasons why i hate wizards

1)Worst fighters in the game. At least druids have the shapeshift spell that can help tremendously during battle

2)Limited number of spells PER REST. This is the primary reason i hate wizards. Ciphers or enchanters can cast spells indefinitely 

3)Many of their spells can harm your mates. Fireball, roll of fire etc are nice spells but they can harm your team. Always sucks to cast ray of fire and seeing the enemy changing position just in order for your wizard to harm your teammate 

4)Most wizard spells can be crafted or found in scrolls. So if you think that wizard spells are incredibly helpful you dont actually need a wizard to cast them!

 

From all the classes that specialize in magic wizards are by far the worst. I mean why not pick ciphers or enchanters who can cast spells indefinitely?

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Well, one's man meat is another man's poison it seems.

Personally, I adore wizards in this game. They are my second favorite class, right behind ciphers. I like the way the spells system has been implemented in the game (especially all the grimoire "lore"), an prefer it over other games' (such as Baldur's Gate's and other AD&D based rpgs). Being an inveterate cipher-head myself (most of my "serious playthrough" mains but one- a chanter- have been ciphers), I'd say all these classes are quite different in concept, purpose and fighting role. So, using them instead of wizards only because they can "cast indefinitely" sounds quite strange to me. I've always thought class-based rpgs to be a lot like a game of chess: every piece has its own, very peculiar role and must be deployed with the correct strategy.

For me, wizards are great mob rulers and invaluable damage dealers. I can't imagine building a party without one, ignoring the fact that, from a role-playing perspective, I won't enjoy fights as much as I do if I didn't have a mage on the battlefi- TASTE MY FIRE, SU****!!

Cough. Where was I?

Ah yes. Jokes aside, here you can find a few tips on how to use your mage without getting too frustrated by the excessive amount of pained "Agh!"s, "Oof!"s and "Yelp!"s coming from the edge of the arena:

 

1) Give your mage a pistol or arquebus and keep them far enough from the heart of the fray. Don't waste your time by giving them a close-range weapon: rushing into battle kicking and screaming is just not what they're meant to do (unless you want to create a specific mage build for that, AKA the Melee Wizard). Also, the Ring of Wonders can work... wonders in boosting your mage-related confidence.

 

2) I never really thought of them as "insufficient". Yes, low-level wizards have... limited resources at their disposal, but as soon as they level up, the number of spells they can use tends to increase quite delightfully. Also, the Ring of Wizardry can help (I found it nearly game-breaking at a certain point. High-DEX cipher + overpowered wiz and WM 1= steamrolled). Giving them even more spells per rest would turn an interesting and challenging class into an avalanche of gruyère: cheesy as heck.

 

3) Wizard and party placement is CRUCIAL. That's where all those movement speed-related abilities (fast running wiz for the win!) come into play. I, for one, love casting Rolling Flame and Twin Stones. They can create a whole lot of confusion on the battlefield and are very useful in interrupting enemies. But yes: the danger of harming your own is omnipresent with these kind of spells. And this is exactly when the chess-playing logic comes to mind: "sacrifice a few for the good of the many". Oh blimey! I'm so sorry, Durance! I didn't mean to turn your burning passion for Magran into a literal, physical manifestation! Here, let me help you. Ha! Suits ye well, ye auld bampot!

 

4) You know who really likes crafting and using scrolls in battle? Me. Would I swap my multi-purpose wizard (who comes with a nourished, ready-to use arsenal of those spells in the first place) for an intensive scroll employment? No. Because it would be impractical. Imagine a fighter, busy hacking away at an enemy's head. Or a cipher, struggling to gather some much-needed focus for his casting. They both need to STOP what they were doing in order to produce, unfold, make sense of and finally read a scroll out loud (all while receiving a sound beating in the process).

Scrolls can be used as support casting resources and they can be very useful indeed, but they cannot substitute the wizard class in any way. Also: try and give your wizard a few scrolls for an extended spell roster. It's hilarious, I assure you.

Or try and give them some healing and revive spells they can cast on fallen party members in tandem with a priest. You won't regret it, I assure you.

Edited by Barbedbeat
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1. Your complaint is that wizards are bad fighters, seriously? Apart from the fact that you can actually make quite an effective melee mage (or just go gun mage or blaster)... they're wizards! Doing melee damage isn't really their main point. Besides, it's not like Priests are such melee powerhouses. 

 

2. So do Druids and Priests. Means you have to manage them a bit more carefully. It's not like they could have made them all per encounter without completely rebalancing all the spells. And it's not like Ciphers or Chanters can just be slinging an endless array of spells. The former need to get enough focus every time first, so they will always have to alternate spells with regular attacks. This also gives them a slower start, whereas Wizards (and Druid and Priests) can use their most powerful spells as a combat opener. Chanters are even more intermittent in their casting, and take far longer to get going. That's also why those tend to be quite powerful; I mean, a level 1 Chanter can theoretically summon a Phantom. 

 

3. Applies to many Druid spells as well. Again, it's a matter of balance: such spells tend to be more powerful as well, it's greater risk vs. greater reward. Besides, the AoE indicator is perfectly clear on where your own guys will be safe in most cases. Less so for more dynamic spells like Crackling Bolt or Ray of Fire, but that's just a matter of timing it right (and occasionally taking a hit). 

 

4. As noted by Barbedbeat Wizards can use these as well. And sure, it can be fun to build a scroll-casting tank or something (just like it's fun to build a melee mage); the tanky dude up front is an excellent place to store some Fans of Flames, for example. But 'most', really? Of the available scrolls, eleven are wizard spells. Wizards themselves already have fourteen at level 1. 

 

So yeah... you're wrong. If you don't know how to make effective use of a wizard or if they just don't fit your playstyle, either ask other players for some advice or just play something else. But to just write them off in this manner because you couldn't make them work on your own is myopic at best.

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Jeepers, not sure how you can claim possibly the strongest class in the game is the weakest... ;(

Are we even playing the same game?

Pillars of Eternity - http://buy.pillarsofeternity.com/

 

I personally don't like wizards or play them, but hell they are pretty darn potent. Regarding fighting, well that's not what they are there for.

Though there are some pretty good builds and spells if that's the way you want to go. But for crowd control and damage spells they are pretty much untouchable - only a druid can compete really with the storm spells.

Edited by rheingold

"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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So i love all classes in POE but this one i hate.

Everyone is free to love or hate any class he wants.

But just a question: is that your first playthrough? The thing is that before you get a handle on it and especially in early game, wizards do indeed feel weak. But they have lots of tools to compensate for that later, and you come to appreciate that once you start to understand how stuff works.

 

Here are my top reasons why i hate wizards

1)Worst fighters in the game. At least druids have the shapeshift spell that can help tremendously during battle

2)Limited number of spells PER REST. This is the primary reason i hate wizards. Ciphers or enchanters can cast spells indefinitely 

3)Many of their spells can harm your mates. Fireball, roll of fire etc are nice spells but they can harm your team. Always sucks to cast ray of fire and seeing the enemy changing position just in order for your wizard to harm your teammate 

4)Most wizard spells can be crafted or found in scrolls. So if you think that wizard spells are incredibly helpful you dont actually need a wizard to cast them!

1). Citzal wizard has potential to outdps any fighter or shifted druid if built right.

2). I don't like that as well. But provided how powerful their spells are plus the possibility to cast without cooldown/resources/delay making them per-encounter would make the class overpowered. Also there is always available a compromise of going for a blasting mage, that just auto-attacks most of the time, and deals ~75% of barbs damage; but is still able to use Minor Blights or spells when damage/cc is really needed.

3). High reward comes with a drawback. And tbh with the way INT affects AoE radius it's not such a big of nuisance. As the extra area is FoE only.

4). Scrolls are consumables. That's one. There are way more spells available to wizards than those in scrolls. Especially Gaze of Adragan. That's two. 

 

From all the classes that specialize in magic wizards are by far the worst. I mean why not pick ciphers or enchanters who can cast spells indefinitely?

Because if you already have 2 ciphers, getting 3rd is a bit redundant. Why not take wizzy for the x2 focus generation via gaze, and let the ciphers make the world burn. Also easy encounters are already easy. And with wizzard you strengthen the party for the boss fights.
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attachicon.gifSchermata 2016-05-29 alle 10.58.17.png

 

I, for one, love casting Rolling Flame and Twin Stones. They can create a whole lot of confusion on the battlefield and are very useful in interrupting enemies. 

 

Ah, nothing like casting Rolling Flames and going around the corner. Or Overwhelming Wave before combat even begins. :)

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I mean why not pick ciphers or enchanters who can cast spells indefinitely?

Because chanters are mind-numbingly boring and wizards are delightfully versatile.

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I don't know, I had two epic long battles in White March II were Aloth was last member standing.

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Well...
1 - Deleterious Alacrity of Motion + Eldrich Aim + Merciless Gaze + Infuse With Vital Essence + Llengrath Displace Image + Mirrored Image + Bulwark Against the Elements + Citzal Sipirit Lance + Citzal Martial Power. Pop Arcane veil and go to the front line, he will do more damage than any other class in the game probably.
Even at level 1, cast Wizards Double and Concelhaut Parasitic Staff, his damage output will be pretty high for the level.

2 - Yeah... That sucks a bit, but you can rest at any time you want, also, the good thing about that is that it forces you to be economic with your spells, making you to plan your fights a bit more.

3 - It's a risk, but I prefer that than my party members staying at the middle of a explosion or being hit by a flamming boulder and simply ignore it as if nothing happened. I mean, fire hurts, even the ones that you lit yourself. (It's a fantasy game, but that kind of detail matter to me).

 

4 - Wizards have way more usefull spells than what you find in scrolls, specially  after the White March, also usually a wizard is a better option than scrolls, since in theory your other character are busy doing things from their own classes.

If it's just a preference thing, fine. I personally like priests more than any other class in the game, (ciphers come in second and wizards in third) but there is no "worst class". As for Wizards, it takes some time to get used to their form of playstyle, I struggled with then in my first playthrough (Partially because I went to PoTD with like no knowledge of the game at all), but wizards are beasts!


Sorry about my bad English.

Feel free to correct it, I want to get better at the language.

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Obviously "My Name Is Bob" just don't know yet how to use a wizard properly and hasn't reach lvl 9 yet. For me (I have some hours+ experience) wizard's still the greatest class of the game - in terms of power, fun, versatility and build options. That doesn't mean that I don't like the other classes as well. But hey you can build a wizard who may cast 17(!) fast casting Fireballs per rest (plus 1 per encounter) without using any scroll and he will still have all his other spell levels left. You just shouldn't spare all your spells for the "next big" encounter. Just spit them out all the time - that's the secret. ;) And on top of that he has awesome spells that let you steal spells from others which he can cast then infinite times while that stealing spell lasts. Isn't that totally awesome? Sure it is...  :yes:

Edited by Boeroer
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I am surprised this would be said,  from my experience,  i have found the Wizard class in POE to be vastly more versatile, durable, and generally utilitarian than most D&D esk games.

I personally setup the NPC character you gain fairly early into the game as a Spell Sword style Wizard.

gave him a nice pokey,  focused his spell casting in defensive and he's filled my need for backup tank more than once!

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I am surprised by the tittle of that topic, wizard are absolutely not useless, Sagani is useless, chanter may be too (mine usually summon his "pets" when the fight is ended, but wizard are extremely useful to debuff enemies, and damage them badly ;)

Edited by fced

Pillars of Eternity PS4 - RPG fan - Native language French, so please forgive my poor English speaking ...

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No class is useless in PoE if you really know how they work. Not Sagani and especially not chanters.

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it depend also their starting stats I should think, sadly we can't rebalance the attributes ... and change the pet...

Edited by fced

Pillars of Eternity PS4 - RPG fan - Native language French, so please forgive my poor English speaking ...

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What's wrong with the fox? It's basically a wolf companion which I'd prefer on a ranger anyway.


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Stats make my a minimal impact at best once you reach mid levels. Your build is everything. Talents/Abilities/Gear combos rule the day. Just choose 13 in all stats and play. You will find equipment, buffs and resting can bring any of your stats to high levels.

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No matter which fork in the road you take I am certain adventure awaits.

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What's wrong with the fox? It's basically a wolf companion which I'd prefer on a ranger anyway.

 

in fact I saw him in action on a kicked down enemy, I took him in hand and started to attack that enemy, but no effect, I haven't see any damage, of may be too few to be noticed on the enemy life bar... I don't know, I should have a better look on Sagani build, and may be give her an arbalest (she is using her original bow because of the two damages type - enchanted to exceptional) ... i appreciate the character, but ... I should try to review her build, may be I made something wrong with her..


Pillars of Eternity PS4 - RPG fan - Native language French, so please forgive my poor English speaking ...

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1 talent for pet's DR + 3 talents for pet's damage + Percistence bow = constant 30-50 dmg on hit/crit from Itumaak and decent sturdiness. Don't know why you don't like this sweet couple.

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Just after the first POE1 release, some of the classes felt a bit weak to me (Rangers and Paladins come to mind), but most of that got improved quite a lot by subsequent patches.  I hold with the "no classes are terrible now" school.  Every class brings something good to the table.  I used a Paladin main tank in a POTD run to great success: they felt great compared to the original release.

 

Wizards have never been anything that could in any remote sense be called "useless" by the most inebriated observer in his most irrational moment.  I worry about them for POE2 given I don't like some of the changes to their core mechanics, but it's still early beta, so hopefully improvements will be forthcoming.

 

Chanters are also a great class in POE1.  Extremely flexible.  Used one as an secondary melee / CC to great success.

 

Don't even start on Cyphers.  Silly powerful.

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1 talent for pet's DR + 3 talents for pet's damage + Percistence bow = constant 30-50 dmg on hit/crit from Itumaak and decent sturdiness. Don't know why you don't like this sweet couple.

? It's more around 80-100 damage for me (on crits). Depends on the level of course - because the pet's base damage scales with level.


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1 talent for pet's DR + 3 talents for pet's damage + Percistence bow = constant 30-50 dmg on hit/crit from Itumaak and decent sturdiness. Don't know why you don't like this sweet couple.

? It's more around 80-100 damage for me (on crits). Depends on the level of course - because the pet's base damage scales with level.

Yes, you're right. I mean 5-7 lvl - becose i played recently and remember exactly this numbers.

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Ah, yes. Quite strong for early levels, too. :)


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Level 7 exactly, 4th level Od Nua, after i got Percistence for constant DoT to activate Itumaak + 50% bonus dmg. All and all, Sagani's pet have +85% bonus and 3 DR bypass, and nearly outdamage my rogue (sadly Itumaak have relatively slow attack speed). Quite enjoyable setup and new to me, becose i used Sagani only with firearms earlier. If only i have a pistol with DoT damage... ;) For now i activate Wounding Shot with St. Guaram pistol for decent damage and bonus accuracy for Itumaak, then switch to Percistence.

Edited by Phenomenum
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Yes, the animal companions hit hard but have relatively slow attack speed. 

 

Predator's Sense can also be triggered by Envenomed Strike for example (which lasts a very long time with decent INT). It's also a good alternative because it's not connected to weapon damage. So, unlike Wounding Shot it doesn't matter if you use it with a gun or a bow.

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1 talent for pet's DR + 3 talents for pet's damage + Percistence bow = constant 30-50 dmg on hit/crit from Itumaak and decent sturdiness. Don't know why you don't like this sweet couple.

? It's more around 80-100 damage for me (on crits). Depends on the level of course - because the pet's base damage scales with level.

 

 

I like the two of them, but I probably have problems to set her correctly... ;)

What weapon are you giving her to do 80-100 dmg ? 


Pillars of Eternity PS4 - RPG fan - Native language French, so please forgive my poor English speaking ...

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