Take Boa's out of the Quest monster list

[Kamikazi]

Good thing I can forfeit rather than waste my time on that. It was a bit of a shock when I wasn't able to close the location. They are designed for a scenario with no villian, doesn't quite work in the Quest format. 

[delpheki]

I love them, it just means you need to close each location 1 at a time instead of bouncing around.  They're worth like 400xp each time you fight them too so if you find yourself with lot's of blessings left and only 2 locations you can ping pong them to power level.

[Kgk4569]

What is everyone's problem with the Boa? I've encountered quite a few and have never had any problem with them. I have bigger problems with that &$*# Zeren (Seriously? start with a zombie to drain resources, then roll 1's & 2's well more than it statistically should to cancel out my checks???) and the villians/henchmen that deal you damage before you act.

[Blave]

The Boa is easy to beat but the fact that you can't close the location after beating it makes it one of the worst henchmen to encounter. This is especially true for 6 man parties. Good luck going through 80 cards in 30 turns. That's nearly impossible unless you manage to fight the villain multiple times to close locations.

[Hannibal_PJV]

Boa is just fine, you just Are in hurry. I Also "hate" Zeren much more ;-)

He is real pain in the a****

My best is now three times 1 or 2 in row against him... So 4 times to beat him. Ugghh. I have spoken.

 

Boa is hard but doable just like Zeren, so no problem of having them. Sometimes you just can not win )

[Kgk4569]

The Boa is easy to beat but the fact that you can't close the location after beating it makes it one of the worst henchmen to encounter. This is especially true for 6 man parties. Good luck going through 80 cards in 30 turns. That's nearly impossible unless you manage to fight the villain multiple times to close locations.

That's why it's a challenge.

[Rhygar]

Ah death cheating zeren, I had a record of rolling six times against him. quite the tenancious fella he is haha.

 

As for boas, you need to really ' burn ' through the location decks should you find them in a scenario. Having certain character will help especially ezren and seelah but in general even with other party build, save those blessing and allies for exploration. Divine caster really work here with their general slots of blessing and ability to cure back the blessings and having aid etc which you use in lieu of blessing to enhance die roll. Ever had merisiel wondering what to do with her generous item slot? Whenever I find that divine candle I make sure she carries it for that rainy day.

 

In 6 man party I had once burned through at least 75 explorations in 37 turns I think. Can be done even if odds are heavily stacked. But boas should make a nice pleasant run of game in 4 man party and less.

[Kamikazi]

I think it was the fact that I still have yet to get any cards from deck 1. I am literally running with a Deck B/C/P party as I have yet to run across a single deck 1 item that improves my decks. Yet I get Deck 3 villans/henchmen. 

 

The scenario power didn't help either, it was the one where everyone gets an ancient skeleton when I find a boa. Perhaps a bad pairing.

[delpheki]

Jealous, once you have all of your boons and you're just trying to get exp you dream about that pairing.  I understand the frustration early on though they should adjust bane placement like the did boons.

[Hannibal_PJV]

They have allready adjusted bane plasement! Some you met earlier than story mode and some later. If I can see From my Gaming sessions.

[Kgk4569]

Jealous, once you have all of your boons and you're just trying to get exp you dream about that pairing.  I understand the frustration early on though they should adjust bane placement like the did boons.

 

The above mentioned, with a Garrison === ROLLING in XP if you can beat it.

[wakasm]

The Boa is easy to beat but the fact that you can't close the location after beating it makes it one of the worst henchmen to encounter. ...That's nearly impossible unless you manage to fight the villain multiple times to close locations.

 

This is literally the strategy for boas though.  You have to go after the villain.  You do this in two ways: 

1. Keep your guys spread out so that you can always perform some temp closing checks to keep the pool of possibilities of his escape route small
2. Pay attention to Blessing Counts.   When you defeat the Villian... he adds 1 blessing into any location he is NOT in.  

Usually, you know where the villian is/is not based on the Henchmen.. However, after the villian has escaped, you can still know where he is/is not based off of blessings.  So a good strategy is to leave locations with 0 blessings open, and let him run away to one of those, and then only go deep enough until you hit a blessing (or villian). Once you hit the blessing...  STOP, you know where the villain is NOT.  Rinse and repeat.  

 

So you don't need to go through 80 cards in 30 turns.  You do need to go through each location with strategy to cut down the amount of cards you do need to encounter.  You can still get unlucky, if a villian/blessing is at the bottom... but IMO, this is where scout-based hero/items like the spyglass help a lot.  

 

You can do this with locations that have blessings as well... but it just requires some memory.   IIRC though, the app handles this by putting the potential blessings under a "?" icon (which represents the villain/henchmen) so the game I believe does give you some visual aid to help your memory.  I am not sure how it handles it with locations with blessings... I should probably pay attention to that next time I play.  

 

Regardless... I do this naturally in the real life card game for any scenario... so I forget how the app handles it.

Edited May 23, 2016 by wakasm

[Brainwave]

Yes, that's the strategy. It doesn't really change that it makes winning the scenario significantly more difficult / random compared to a "normal" henchman, depending on whether you can locate and corral the villain early. There's only so much spyglass/augury/etc to go around. Do I think boas make the game impossible to win, no. But I think they make it significantly harder. By the same logic that the staff of minor healing makes the game easier to win and thus those cards are bumped at least 2 "tiers" in quest mode, shouldn't the boas be bumped at least the same? But instead they appear to be bumped down, rather than up for some reason. (I'm not sure what deck they are from but pretty sure it's at least Deck 3 and I encountered them at tier 2).

[wakasm]

More difficult/random - yes.  

 

But the whole game is random, and that randomness can negatively effect the chance of success in any scenario.  I don't see this being any different.  

 

There have been times I've encountered the Villain on the first turn making the particular scenario way too easy.  It evens out.  

 

However, I personally enjoy alternate objectives than "Find and kill the henchmen - Villian".   I think the game needs more of these types of scenarios... not less!  While this one with Boas is just a slight variation... I think it's worth keeping as an option, maybe tweaked so that the chance of being encountered is less than other scenarios.  

 

I don't think BOAs though are broken at all.  They just require a more targeted/stricter strategy.  

Edited May 23, 2016 by wakasm

[Rhygar]

Still need a dose of luck though it's after all a dice roll game . Had my second run in with 7 boas and whilst this time the villain didn't exactly pop in first round of turns for 6 guys, it did surface early enough so I didn't have to burn through 7 location to hunt it. Finished it with 9 turn remaining although seelah did cop it taking in 3 blessings in the lamashtu temple ( first time she bit the dust in my game) .

 

In short I agree with wakasm , boa isn't broken to that extent you can't finish; and its real playable if 6 man team aren't your fancy

[Irgy]

The fact that it's not impossible to win against them doesn't change the fact that it's significantly more difficult in a way that was almost certainly never intended in the design. They really should just make a new card "Giant Eel" with the same stats and a closing clause for quest mode.

[Rhygar]

The fact that it's not impossible to win against them doesn't change the fact that it's significantly more difficult in a way that was almost certainly never intended in the design. They really should just make a new card "Giant Eel" with the same stats and a closing clause for quest mode.

I can't argue with design intent since I won't be following their designer that closely and hadn't done so but imo I don't think a boas was placed in game as an oversight . If anything I believe it's to make it that more , well, challenging.

[wakasm]

The fact that it's not impossible to win against them doesn't change the fact that it's significantly more difficult in a way that was almost certainly never intended in the design. They really should just make a new card "Giant Eel" with the same stats and a closing clause for quest mode.

 

There are lots of instances, in both directions easy and hard, that weren't designed for "quest mode" which I think is the whole point of quest mode.  

 

I do think the rate of encountering them should be considered, it will probably suck if BOAS have a simple 50% chance of being the quest henchmen at the tier you are experiencing them, but if they were a 10% encounter rate... I'd say that's perfectly fine.  

 

I also think if they add partial XP gain for not winning a quest (like has been suggested in other threads), then it all becomes moot.  You can forfeit as well.  But removing them leaves those who like the challenge is once again penalizing people who want to see unique combinations of challenge.

[Rhygar]

There are lots of instances, in both directions easy and hard, that weren't designed for "quest mode" which I think is the whole point of quest mode.  

 

I do think the rate of encountering them should be considered, it will probably suck if BOAS have a simple 50% chance of being the quest henchmen at the tier you are experiencing them, but if they were a 10% encounter rate... I'd say that's perfectly fine.  

 

I also think if they add partial XP gain for not winning a quest (like has been suggested in other threads), then it all becomes moot.  You can forfeit as well.  But removing them leaves those who like the challenge is once again penalizing people who want to see unique combinations of challenge.

From I can tell, there's no particular bias for or against boas making their grand entrance . The henchman are probably taking from a pool of henchman made available by your tier level. For instance, I could get black fang and ancient skeleton even at tier 3. Out of the numerous runs in my present 6 man teams I'd encountered boas 2 times. Coupled with the fact I'd seen boas generated with Lucrecia and other henchman, I'd say you can often not face the most extreme situation with boas.

 

Not that I think the argument against boas is about their frequency of appearance that most players on here are objecting to.

[Blave]

Funny that some of you mentioned Zeren. I once had an encounter with him and he was saved by his ability no less than TEN times. Even with Amiri being the one fighting him (as oposed to a caster), my party eventually ran out of steam and I lost the fight. Still managed to complete the scenario but that was beyond unlucky :-/

[wakasm]

 From I can tell, there's no particular bias for or against boas making their grand entrance . The henchman are probably taking from a pool of henchman made available by your tier level. 

 

 

Well I assumed this was the case, I just didn't do any real Math on what the % chance would be, was just stating a random made up example.  

 

My point though was instead of "removing them entirely", if the % chance to encounter them was extremely high due to there not being enough villians/henchmen to pull from... the devs could adjust this with a bias, lowering the encounter rate a bit... vs removing them completely, which this thread is aptly named "Take Boa's out of the Quest monster list".  It is this viewpoint I disagree with completely. 

 

 

I'd say you can often not face the most extreme situation with boas. 

 

I actually assumed this was more the case.  But I don't really know the Math behind the quest pool stuff as far as what is possible to encounter at any specific XP level.  At some point they have to phase out easier henchmen/villian so there could be some weird circumstances where you might face the wrong henchmen too often.    

Edited May 24, 2016 by wakasm

[Rhygar]

I actually assumed this was more the case. But I don't really know the Math behind the quest pool stuff as far as what is possible to encounter at any specific XP level. At some point they have to phase out easier henchmen/villian so there could be some weird circumstances where you might face the wrong henchmen too often.

 

I expect this to be implemented at some point. Logically if the team is lv 70s the equivalent to adventure pack 6 completion on rough estimate they shouldn't be twiddling their thumb facing off black fang and ancient skeleton .

 

May not lead to what you said about the boas being in a smaller pool and hence bring more probable to encounter . Could be designed to be a moving band of accessible henchman by tiers as the pool to draw from ( like deck b to deck 3 for any party at or below tier 3 , if your party is at tier 7 , the draw pool would be something like henchman from deck 4 to deck6 ) . This would provide a somewhat consistent size of the pool while ensuring lower end villains and henchman are replaced by higher end ones. At this point though, it's any body guess as to what obsidian have in mind.

 

Having said that I believe the higher deck boons will comparatively make the encounter with boas easier , even if the worst case scenario happened where you find yourself facing boas more often as your party levels up.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Rhygar

[delpheki]

After almost getting screwed by these boas but pulling it out at the end with tedious strategic planning I have to say I would really miss the challenge these pose.