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Are you going to release Tyranny on GOG?


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Since you didn't use crowdfunding, I suppose Paradox will own the game. Do you know if they'll allow you to release the game on GOG like you did with Pillars of Eternity? A lot of Paradox games aren't sold on GOG, so the fact that they fund you instead of crowdfunding causes some level of concern.

 

Thanks!

 

For those interested in the GOG release of the game - please vote for it in GOG community wishlist: https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/tyranny

Edited by shmerl
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Sigh.

 

There are two issues here. Paradox's policy is steam only and that is unlikely to change for this game. PoE was only on GOG due to the kickstarter promise (and Origin presumably due to the limited no cut policy) and while it would be nice to think PoE's sold well enough there to get a version of Tyranny it isn't likely; far more likely Paradox will simply decide that people will buy on steam if that's the only option. But, that is obfuscated because Paradox's forums are full of misinformation as Paradox is, well, full of crap on the issue- so there isn't any direct reason to believe anything said there.

 

I'll spoiler the rest as it's ranty. I always end up wanting to give someone an uppercut after reading Paradox foums; sometimes that person is me for going back there.

 

 

Paradox hung their hat on DRM free so now have to claim that steam ain't DRM. Well yeah, it is, it's a 3rd party extraneous gateway app which requires a 3rd party account and download, even in best case it checks on install exactly like SecuROM launch control which is acknowledged DRM. If it were called 'Denuvo App' requiring Denuvo download and Denuvo account instead of steam there'd be no doubt whatsoever as to what it was. The myth that just because the DRM is only applied at install it doesn't exist is laughable and designed solely to defend against arguments of hypocrisy. FWIW Galaxy would be DRM too for exactly the same reasons, were it compulsory.

 

Paradox's reason for going Steam only were bull also. Johan stated repeatedly that Gamersgate and steam version were identical, and since they had the same checksum they were in reality too. Then, suddenly, two different versions were required with two different sets of testing which cost oh so much etc, when they wanted to go steam only after steam 'persuaded' them to drop Paradox Connect. I particularly like that after retroing in steam to CK2 they then cut off relations with Gamersgate, rendering the compensatory steam keys given there non functional. Nice. Shame for whoever it was I was going to give them to a few months ago.

 

Edited by Zoraptor
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There are two issues here. Paradox's policy is steam only and that is unlikely to change for this game.

 

Is that position of the Paradox studio, because they can't handle developing for Steam and non Steam at the same time, or it's position of Paradox as a publisher because they don't see a point of releasing outside of Steam? Or it's really one and the same?

 

 

But, that is obfuscated because Paradox's forums are full of misinformation as Paradox is, well, full of crap on the issue- so there isn't any direct reason to believe anything said there.

 

Yeah, I realized that. So much pointless referring to 2.5 year old arguments there (as if market stays in one place), and claims that "everyone will use Steam anyway". And all that from people who don't even represent Paradox. It's as if they represent Valve :)

 

 

 

Paradox hung their hat on DRM free so now have to claim that steam ain't DRM. Well yeah, it is, it's a 3rd party extraneous gateway app which requires a 3rd party account and download, even in best case it checks on install exactly like SecuROM launch control which is acknowledged DRM. If it were called 'Denuvo App' requiring Denuvo download and Denuvo account instead of steam there'd be no doubt whatsoever as to what it was. The myth that just because the DRM is only applied at install it doesn't exist is laughable and designed solely to defend against arguments of hypocrisy. FWIW Galaxy would be DRM too for exactly the same reasons, were it compulsory.

 

 

The most annoying part is all these "so what - use Steam, it's DRM-free there". These people don't get the idea - there are enough people who don't use DRMed services, and it's actually major GOG's selling point. Since Galaxy is optional and as well gives an option of backing up standalone packages, it's not DRM either.

 

 

Paradox's reason for going Steam only were bull also. Johan stated repeatedly that Gamersgate and steam version were identical, and since they had the same checksum they were in reality too. Then, suddenly, two different versions were required with two different sets of testing which cost oh so much etc, when they wanted to go steam only after steam 'persuaded' them to drop Paradox Connect. I particularly like that after retroing in steam to CK2 they then cut off relations with Gamersgate, rendering the compensatory steam keys given there non functional. Nice. Shame for whoever it was I was going to give them to a few months ago.

 

Their main argument is framed as cost saving. I.e. they claim that Steam is so big, that anything outside Steam is insignificant and only requires more expenses than gives profit. Not sure where they get that data, but it's incorrect factually. GOG has grown and is continuing growing, same goes for stores like Humble (though the later is somewhat moot, since they often work as Steam reseller).

Edited by shmerl
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It is safe to probably assume this will be Steam only.  This is a Paradox title that Obsidian is developing, so Obsidian will have no real say in anything in regards to the publishing side.

 

That isn't to say that you can't put some pressure on Paradox to branch out from Steam.  Maybe start a petition.  I'd sign it, even though I have little issue using Steam.

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There are two issues here. Paradox's policy is steam only and that is unlikely to change for this game.

 

Is that position of the Paradox studio, because they can't handle developing for Steam and non Steam at the same time, or it's position of Paradox as a publisher because they don't see a point of releasing outside of Steam? Or it's really one and the same?

 

 

It's the position of both Paradox (publisher) and Paradox Development Studio. They are the same thing, PDS is not an independent entity.

 

While their blog post is 2&1/2 years old (and based near entirely on Steam's 'how to sell your move to steam exclusive' PR crib sheet as well) there's no evidence at all that anything substantive has changed from that time, as such their reasons and whether they differ from those stated don't really matter. So far Paradox's entire relationship with GOG is based on PoE, which they inherited, and releasing old already drm free games there which takes no additional effort. It'd be different if they'd released previous steam exclusives/ drmed titles there as Nordic or Deep Silver have done, but they haven't. It's a bit more complicated than that* but that is their current policy.

 

*Bottom line is Paradox needs steam, steam doesn't need Paradox. It's funny reading Johan defending steam vehemently when I know perfectly well he said that the drm/ steam versions were the same, and his hating on steam over the Divine Wind, dlc, patching etc debacles they had with them. But end of the day they just had to suck it up anyway because the relationship is just so slanted.

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While I can’t say anything about the future decision from Paradox on this matter, I sincerely hope Obsidian will put some pressure on them so we can get a DRM-free version sold somewhere (be it GOG, Humble or directly on Obsidian website).

I won’t consider buying a DRMed version of the game, no matter how good it looks. Hey, I would even pass on Pillars of Eternity 2 if it is not sold DRM-free, and that’s from someone who *love* the first game!

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While their blog post is 2&1/2 years old (and based near entirely on Steam's 'how to sell your move to steam exclusive' PR crib sheet as well) there's no evidence at all that anything substantive has changed from that time, as such their reasons and whether they differ from those stated don't really matter.

 

What about growth of Steam's competitors? That's surely happening every year. Do Obsidian have numbers for sales percentages per distributor? Would that be enough to bust the exclusivity logic? My expectation is that it's already at the point when not using more distributors means significant amount of lost sales.

Edited by shmerl
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While their blog post is 2&1/2 years old (and based near entirely on Steam's 'how to sell your move to steam exclusive' PR crib sheet as well) there's no evidence at all that anything substantive has changed from that time, as such their reasons and whether they differ from those stated don't really matter.

 

What about growth of Steam's competitors? That's surely happening every year. Do Obsidian have numbers for sales percentages per distributor? Would that be enough to bust the exclusivity logic? My expectation is that it's already at the point when not using more distributors means significant amount of lost sales.

 

 

Locking game in Steam don't necessary cut sales, because even though people may prefer to use different distributors if such option exist that preference don't necessary mean that they will not buy the game from Steam if it is only store that sells the game. So loss comes only from those people that will not buy game if Steam is its only distributor.

 

Although Tyranny to non-Steam distributors is simpler thing than with many other Paradox titles as number Steam features that it use is nearly non-existent in comparison, lack of use of features like steam match making, or steam workshop make releasing games in non-steam stores much easier and simpler process and as single player game there isn't even threat of dividing player base.  

Edited by Elerond
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I certainly hope it makes it on GOG, and that the GOG version is properly supported. The latter wasn't the greatest for POE.

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Locking game in Steam don't necessary cut sales, because even though people may prefer to use different distributors if such option exist that preference don't necessary mean that they will not buy the game from Steam if it is only store that sells the game. So loss comes only from those people that will not buy game if Steam is its only distributor.

 

Major selling point of GOG is DRM-free distribution, so significant amount of GOG users don't use Steam. Anyway, simply having the game in multiple stores increases discoverability and potential reach.

Edited by shmerl
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Locking game in Steam don't necessary cut sales, because even though people may prefer to use different distributors if such option exist that preference don't necessary mean that they will not buy the game from Steam if it is only store that sells the game. So loss comes only from those people that will not buy game if Steam is its only distributor.

 

Major selling point of GOG is DRM-free distribution, so significant amount of GOG users don't use Steam. Anyway, simply having the game in multiple stores increases discoverability and potential reach.

 

 

Sadly it isn't that significant in reality, especially after all Steam isn't DRM tosh that goes around internet forums (even GOG's own). In theory multiple store add discoverability, but even with that sad reality is that Steam has such dominance that if you get coverage there then other store's effect on your games discoverability is quite insignificant. Other stores are good if your game don't get coverage in Steam. And Paradox has good relationship with Steam and all their games get significant coverage there. And for potential additional reach to people that don't buy game from Steam significance is still questionable. 

 

I have been big supporter of GOG from beginning and bought couple hundred games from there in past 8 years, but during that time it is also become quite clear that GOG can't compete really with Steam when it comes to new games. But hopefully their new branding, galaxy and other things that they have done will let them attract enough customers to start give even little challenge for Steam and its suffocating dominance in PC market. Maybe couple big hits more from CD Project will give them enough status.

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I'd prefer GOG personally, I tend to avoid the hassles associated with logging in to Steam, having to authenticate my account, the advertisements and pop ups etc. Also I never understand why exactly they want a shipping address, even though I routinely use Sherlock Holme's residence, as I am not recieving any physical product from them.

 

Edit: The service just seems to be overly nosy.

Edited by Nonek
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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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There are two issues here. Paradox's policy is steam only and that is unlikely to change for this game.

 

 

Is that position of the Paradox studio, because they can't handle developing for Steam and non Steam at the same time, or it's position of Paradox as a publisher because they don't see a point of releasing outside of Steam? Or it's really one and the same?

 

It's the position of both Paradox (publisher) and Paradox Development Studio. They are the same thing, PDS is not an independent entity.

 

While their blog post is 2&1/2 years old (and based near entirely on Steam's 'how to sell your move to steam exclusive' PR crib sheet as well) there's no evidence at all that anything substantive has changed from that time, as such their reasons and whether they differ from those stated don't really matter. So far Paradox's entire relationship with GOG is based on PoE, which they inherited, and releasing old already drm free games there which takes no additional effort. It'd be different if they'd released previous steam exclusives/ drmed titles there as Nordic or Deep Silver have done, but they haven't. It's a bit more complicated than that* but that is their current policy.

 

*Bottom line is Paradox needs steam, steam doesn't need Paradox. It's funny reading Johan defending steam vehemently when I know perfectly well he said that the drm/ steam versions were the same, and his hating on steam over the Divine Wind, dlc, patching etc debacles they had with them. But end of the day they just had to suck it up anyway because the relationship is just so slanted.

Paradox have released some of their previous titles on GOG. It is not PoE only relationship anymore.

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Bought a new game on GOG once, never again, their patches are always late and their installer/gog galaxy sucks compared to Steam. Still great for those old games you can't get anywhere else though.

 

For curiosity's sake though, what would a company gain by not selling on every avaliable distribution platform? Even if only 100 people buy on gog that wouldn't on steam that's still 100 more sold games isn't it?

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There are two issues here. Paradox's policy is steam only and that is unlikely to change for this game.

 

Is that position of the Paradox studio, because they can't handle developing for Steam and non Steam at the same time, or it's position of Paradox as a publisher because they don't see a point of releasing outside of Steam? Or it's really one and the same?

 

It's the position of both Paradox (publisher) and Paradox Development Studio. They are the same thing, PDS is not an independent entity.

 

While their blog post is 2&1/2 years old (and based near entirely on Steam's 'how to sell your move to steam exclusive' PR crib sheet as well) there's no evidence at all that anything substantive has changed from that time, as such their reasons and whether they differ from those stated don't really matter. So far Paradox's entire relationship with GOG is based on PoE, which they inherited, and releasing old already drm free games there which takes no additional effort. It'd be different if they'd released previous steam exclusives/ drmed titles there as Nordic or Deep Silver have done, but they haven't. It's a bit more complicated than that* but that is their current policy.

 

*Bottom line is Paradox needs steam, steam doesn't need Paradox. It's funny reading Johan defending steam vehemently when I know perfectly well he said that the drm/ steam versions were the same, and his hating on steam over the Divine Wind, dlc, patching etc debacles they had with them. But end of the day they just had to suck it up anyway because the relationship is just so slanted.

Paradox have released some of their previous titles on GOG. It is not PoE only relationship anymore.

 

 

Well, it seems all of them are games they had stop updating or developed DLC for.

 

So I guess maybe 10 years later when Tyranny fit in this category they may release it on GoG.

 

Oh well, it is not like there are no other great games to play other then Tyranny.

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Bought a new game on GOG once, never again, their patches are always late and their installer/gog galaxy sucks compared to Steam. Still great for those old games you can't get anywhere else though.

 

For curiosity's sake though, what would a company gain by not selling on every avaliable distribution platform? Even if only 100 people buy on gog that wouldn't on steam that's still 100 more sold games isn't it?

Yeah, because there are no such things like marketing fees, etc when signing a distribution agreement

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Bought a new game on GOG once, never again, their patches are always late and their installer/gog galaxy sucks compared to Steam. Still great for those old games you can't get anywhere else though.

 

For curiosity's sake though, what would a company gain by not selling on every avaliable distribution platform? Even if only 100 people buy on gog that wouldn't on steam that's still 100 more sold games isn't it?

Yeah, because there are no such things like marketing fees, etc when signing a distribution agreement

 

 

What are "marketing fees"? Signing legal agreements has lawyers' fees if anything which is a one time thing.

Edited by shmerl
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Bought a new game on GOG once, never again, their patches are always late and their installer/gog galaxy sucks compared to Steam. Still great for those old games you can't get anywhere else though.

 

For curiosity's sake though, what would a company gain by not selling on every avaliable distribution platform? Even if only 100 people buy on gog that wouldn't on steam that's still 100 more sold games isn't it?

Yeah, because there are no such things like marketing fees, etc when signing a distribution agreement

 

 

What are "marketing fees"? Signing legal agreements has lawyers' fees if anything which is a one time thing.

 

 

Visibility in stores that sell hundreds/thousands of products don't usually come free.

Edited by Elerond
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What are "marketing fees"? Signing legal agreements has lawyers' fees if anything which is a one time thing.

 

 

Visibility in stores that sell hundreds/thousands of products don't usually come free.

 

 

Stores are paid by splitting sales percentages, i.e. sharing profits. It's not free sure, but that's expected. You don't need to pay anything upfront to them though. So I'm not sure what you mean by "marketing fees". It's the first time I hear about it.

Edited by shmerl
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What are "marketing fees"? Signing legal agreements has lawyers' fees if anything which is a one time thing.

 

 

Visibility in stores that sell hundreds/thousands of products don't usually come free.

 

 

Stores are paid by splitting sales percentages, i.e. sharing profits. It's not free sure, but that's expected. You don't need to pay anything upfront to them though. So I'm not sure what you mean by "marketing fees". It's the first time I hear about it.

 

 

You have no clue about a business... sorry to say it, but you simply lack the knowledge.

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