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Brimsurfer

Post 3.0: Paladins.....

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I had Pallegina ever since I could in my party, and she definitely earns her keep. Her damage is good, her tankyness is acceptable for someone using a two-hander, Lay on Hands is endlessly useful, Reviving Exhortation is a lifesaver when Durance eats one blow too many, Zealous Focus is nice, and Sacred Immolation is so gud.

 

Given that Obsidian's vision for the Paladin is of a support-heavy frontline combatant, I'd say they do that job well. If you want melee damage, Barbarians and Rogues are here for that. My bow-using Cipher does less raw damage than a Ranger, but he compensates with his array of useful spells. Same deal for Paladin vs other melee combatants.

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I had Pallegina ever since I could in my party, and she definitely earns her keep. Her damage is good, her tankyness is acceptable for someone using a two-hander, Lay on Hands is endlessly useful, Reviving Exhortation is a lifesaver when Durance eats one blow too many, Zealous Focus is nice, and Sacred Immolation is so gud.

 

Pallegina Order Abilities > Protagonist Orders Abilities 

 

And you get Sacred Immolation at level 13, that's way too late, that's almost near the end of the game and so we can safely say that protagonist paladin is pretty much reduced to zealous aura and the exhortation.......and honestly i don't find exhortations appealing....... so its basically zealous aura that they are sort of good for......I find this class quite underwhelming, don't see any reason to play it.....

 

I think its a bad class design, some think its good but I find it quite bad and unappealing.............not my cup of tea, an utter disappointment for me......

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I had Pallegina ever since I could in my party, and she definitely earns her keep. Her damage is good, her tankyness is acceptable for someone using a two-hander, Lay on Hands is endlessly useful, Reviving Exhortation is a lifesaver when Durance eats one blow too many, Zealous Focus is nice, and Sacred Immolation is so gud.

 

Pallegina Order Abilities > Protagonist Orders Abilities 

 

And you get Sacred Immolation at level 13, that's way too late, that's almost near the end of the game and so we can safely say that protagonist paladin is pretty much reduced to zealous aura and the exhortation.......and honestly i don't find exhortations appealing....... so its basically zealous aura that they are sort of good for......I find this class quite underwhelming, don't see any reason to play it.....

 

I think its a bad class design, some think its good but I find it quite bad and unappealing.............not my cup of tea, an utter disappointment for me......

 

 

There's more to paladins than just auras and exhortations. 

 

1) Lay On Hands/Great Lay on Hands:  Better than any heal spell a priest has for some quick, 1 on 1 healing.   Also good because it gives you some backup when it comes to healing team mates.

 

2) Sworn Enemy:  Once per encounter.  +20% damage and +15 accuracy against a single enemy for the duration of the battle.  In battles against enemy grunts, it may not seem worth the trouble to use, but when the enemy has a one bad guy who is a lot tougher than the rest, it's definitely worth it.

 

3) Reviving Exhortation: Once per Encounter.  How can ANYONE not find Reviving Exhortation appealing?  Seriously??!!!

 

4) Aegis of Loyalty:  Yes, priests have a protection spell against charms.  But what if you don't have a priest?  Or what if the enemy has cast its charm spell before your priest could get that protection spell up? And so on and so on.  It never hurts to have a Plan B for dealing with enemies who charm, dominate, or confuse team mates.  And that's where Aegis of Loyalty comes in handy.

 

5) Righteous Soul:  Never hurts to increase a pally's personal defenses against poison, disease, charmed, dominated, frightened and terrified effects.

 

6) Healing Chain:  Not spectacular, but another useful healing spell you can use as a backup to a priest.

 

7) Sacred Immolation:  Available at level 13.  And if you're a completionist in this game, you can reach the level cap of level 16 even before starting WM2.  So there's PLENTY of game left to make this a worthwhile ability.

 

 

 

Brim, the more you write in this thread, complaining about paladins, the more I'm convinced that you just don't like paladins and don't WANT to like paladins, no matter how hard we try to convince you that they're a lot better class than you give them credit for.

 

And since this seems to be the case, why bother playing them and then whining about it?  Just play some other class instead, and don't bother coming here and wasting both your time and ours when you seem so bound and determined to not accept what so many people are trying to tell you.  Just a suggestion, BTW.

 

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The reason why you can consider Paladin "Best for Something" are lay on hand, Reviving Exo and Immolation.

 

Apart for this, paladin are tanky jack of all trades, anf that is god enough like this.

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I had Pallegina ever since I could in my party, and she definitely earns her keep. Her damage is good, her tankyness is acceptable for someone using a two-hander, Lay on Hands is endlessly useful, Reviving Exhortation is a lifesaver when Durance eats one blow too many, Zealous Focus is nice, and Sacred Immolation is so gud.

 

 if you are trying to build a dps/striker paladin, Pallegina Order Abilities > Protagonist Orders Abilities

 

 

 

 

 

*fixed*

 

if you wanna dps as a paladin, pallegina is your best option. you can still play an effective ranged or melee striker paladin, but pallegina will best you.  so, fixed, but not wholly relevant.  

 

in poe you are able to build a resilient and low maintenance support-class character using multiple paladin orders.  'course that issue has been ground into hamburger over the course o' multiple pages.

 

you do not like the per-encounter abilities or do not believe that such abilities is actual useful.  many other folks disagree.  fine.  play another class.  is a relative large number o' classes, which by necessity means that such classes is more distinct and narrow tailored.  is axiomatic that more genuine unique classes offered by obsidian, the more likely it becomes that you won't like one or more o' those class offerings.  

 

if the per-encounter support abilities don't work for you, then don't play a mc paladin.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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^ that's what I said, I have realised that Paladins in this game are not my cup of tea, I find them disappointing.....IMO its a very bad class design, although people may disagree and that's fine with me, but some how people are not fine with this.......

 

I just wished that Paladins were some how viable, but I find them useless.........and I want to play many classes, 'nobody has any right to tell me that if I don't like a class then I should play another....', and whoever thinks that they can say this to me, I'll tell them to F themselves..........you did not pay out of your pocket and bought me this game, I paid my good money for this game so I had some expectations from this product, it passed in some regards and it failed in some....... but for some reason people on this forum only want to hear good things about this game and any criticism is greeted with evil scorn....... but still if I don't like something about this game, I will make sure to post it here and fanboys will just have to deal with it........

Edited by Brimsurfer

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^ that's what I said, I have realised that Paladins in this game are not my cup of tea, I find them disappointing.....IMO its a very bad class design, although people may disagree and that's fine with me, but some how people are not fine with this.......

 

I just wished that Paladins were some how viable, but I find them useless.........and I want to play many classes, 'nobody has any right to tell me that if I don't like a class then I should play another....', and whoever thinks that they can say this to me, I'll tell them to F themselves..........you did not pay out of your pocket and bought me this game, I paid my good money for this game so I had some expectations from this product, it passed in some regards and it failed in some....... but for some reason people on this forum only want to hear good things about this game and any criticism is greeted with evil scorn....... but still if I don't like something about this game, I will make sure to post it here and fanboys will just have to deal with it........

 

 

Brim, I get that paladins aren't what you clearly wish they were.  And yet at the same time, I get this incredibly strong sense that because pallies aren't what you want them to be you think them "useless".  The fact that so many other people don't find them useless should be an indication to you that you're wrong to think them useless.  They may not be what you wish them to be.  Honestly, they're not really what I wish they were either.  But at the same time, I do NOT think them to be useless because they're not what I wish they were.

 

As for people having a right to say that you should play another class, OF COURSE they have that right.  They have EVERY right to make that suggestion.  And that's all they're doing... suggesting.  And you shouldn't get your undies in a bunch because someone dares to offer a suggestion, for crying out loud.

 

 

 

 

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My only wish is their buff and heal stuff can affect themselves too, it kind weird their ability can only be used on others. I think we shall be given the choice to use their skills on pallies themselves or their teammates. Now we are kind force to use the abilities on others. Like we can only use Exhortation on teammates, kill triggered heal only affect teammates and etc. Fortunately the dev didn't make lay on hand ally only :)

Edited by dunehunter

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From the very beginning of RPG, Paladin are looking for their own destiny beyond being a priest/fighter hybrid.

 

PoE didn't completely succeed at it. Immolation is for me the only ability that sounds completely paladin. And maybe sworn ennemy. The rest is mostly "priest stuff variant".

 

That does not mean class is badly designed in PoE by the way. That's more a reccuring pb in the whole RPG planet. They are quite ok as they are.

 

Furthermore, lore-wise, their background in PoE is really excellent.

Edited by Elric Galad
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^ that's a fair counter argument, they are indeed a bastard hybrid - and it's fairly close to Brim's argument that they are basically a poor priest and a poor fighter - and why choose that when you can just have a fighter and priest than will perfom better together than a pally alone, which you're probably gonna be doing either way.

 

To that I don't really have a counter argument other than they are pretty good at being said hybrid - they can replace either class if you play them right, they offer a decent buff and a decent tank or dps ability. But yeah they don't really shine or stand out on their own beyond Sacred Immolation and Sworn Enemy, I wish they did too.

 

In many ways they remind me of Druids, who are kinda a mix between rangers, priests/wizards and rouges.


Fortune favors the bald.

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^ that's a fair counter argument, they are indeed a bastard hybrid - and it's fairly close to Brim's argument that they are basically a poor priest and a poor fighter - and why choose that when you can just have a fighter and priest than will perfom better together than a pally alone, which you're probably gonna be doing either way.

 

To that I don't really have a counter argument other than they are pretty good at being said hybrid - they can replace either class if you play them right, they offer a decent buff and a decent tank or dps ability. But yeah they don't really shine or stand out on their own beyond Sacred Immolation and Sworn Enemy, I wish they did too.

 

In many ways they remind me of Druids, who are kinda a mix between rangers, priests/wizards and rouges.

yeah, the fact that we can use a single paladin to replace a fighter AND a priest in a potential party loadout is quite the boon. 

 

am knowing we said this earlier, but this thread reminds us o' a few o' the very early, and largely dismissed, post release paladin complaint threads.  

 

"shortly after release there were considerable criticism o' the paladin... which we didn't get.  claims that fighters were better tanks than paladins seemed wholly misguided. after all, the paladin were a support class.  the observation that the paladin, while effective enough in the tank role, 'could support far better than any fighter build, were seeming ignored.  another frequent complaint o' the paladin were that it were not as effective in support as a priest.  'course such folks ignored the fact that paladins were far more resilient than priests and that they typically required less micromanagement than a priest.  claim that priests were better than paladins in support mighta' even have been true, but such claims ignored that priests and paladins played very different and that both were effective at supporting a party.   not as good as a fighter at tanking and not as good at support than a priest were s'posed a meaningful critique.  misguided."
 
we revealed a support paladin earlier in this thread, one that had the kinda overkill deflection that is the prime determinant o' tanky success.   our tanky henchman paladin also had numerous, powerful, per-encounter support abilities that no fighter main character or henchman could replicate. in our illustration, we described how our paladin actual responded in ordinary combat encounters.  our henchman paladin were hardly optimized, but am thinking it took little imagination to see that she would be effective in a potd run.  wanna play a ranged-support paladin with a bit more dps?  is not only viable but extreme effective.  we got a few wood elf archers who make efficient use o' the per-kill abilities.  our bow wielding paladins is not tanky, but they is still resilient and their auras is more likely to affect the second-row party members.  
 
'course other folks offered a few striker paladin builds as an alternative to Gromnir's tank-support hybrid.  for laughs we built a non-optimized, human striker paladin that wields peasant weapons.  
 
post-72-0-02463600-1458665526_thumb.jpg
post-72-0-60000700-1458665583_thumb.jpg
 
is not our favorite poe character build, but it is a potent dps paladin... even w/o a few obvious optimizations such as death godlike and savage attacks.  heck, we had the paladin in relative crappy gear and you can see that he were critting frequent and doing considerable damage... even as we purposeful avoided using immolation.  used durance's staff as our primary weapon. we also did not petrify any foes to inflate our high damage totals.  "bog guardian" is toughest kill 'cause we were using primarily on the mowrghek ien map o' a potd run, so it weren't as if we were facing the wimps o' poe to generate numbers. 
 
is a pretty straightforward striker.  cast liberating exhortation on self for the +10 accuracy and then kill stuff.  wait a moment or two to choose who to target with sworn enemy, likely after a priest or druid debuff on foes, then wade in and use flames o' devotion to make the enemy disappear.  maybe use forge master gloves to create a fire brand for extra laughs. 
 
*shrug*
 
at some point, given all the folks who is disagreeing with brim, folks who is supplying specific builds supported by screenies and tactics, a reasonable person might consider that the problem might not be with the paladin class.  could be a problem o' expectations.  could be something else.  dunno.  regardless, am thinking that nothing said in this thread will change brim's mind.  he needs see to believe, though am not certain what is causing his selective paladin blindness.  the only reason why we posted as many times as we have is 'cause we suspect that there is other critics o' the paladin reading the thread, and perhaps those folks is actual a bit more open-minded.
 
HA! Good Fun!
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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You all are very patient people for contributing so much info and tolerating the lack of appreciation from OP, specifically after asking for tolerating OP's lack of appreciation or acknowledgement, particularly when the original post was in fact asking "I really want to know, what a Paladin is good for?"

 

There's a lot of good info in here for people browsing with interest in how a paladin can function, and there are people who will get something out of it, at least.  So thanks for that, yall.

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I certainly don't want to stomp all over the parade here  (referencing initial posting),  but a Paladin has always been a Hybrid Tank healer class.

 

Paladins provide the highlights of both Tanking and Healing/Support roles while keeping a keen balance of role play present.

 

These players are often very set in how they deal with flaws of character.....(thieves ect...),  Paladin are fantastic backup tanks that in later levels possess great defenses against not only undead but also evil aligned foes in most if not all Role Playing games.

 

General Rule of Thumb.

 

Paladins will not heal as well as a priest of equal lvl

Paladins will not tank as well as a warrior focused on tanking of equal level

Paladins will be able to buff, pinch tank, turn the dead, deal good damage, and will do so for a holly cause!

 

Side Note:

Anti Paladins (Hybrid Tank/Necromancer) (aka Death Knights and Shadow Knights) tend to Harm Touch, Summon Dead, Disease their foe's and generally cause mayhem & fear,  basically the polar opposite of Paladins.

 

Anyone else have a helpfull thought on this posting?

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Not sure why you're necro posting in this thread.

 

Also not sure why you're talking about D&D Paladins in PoE.

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I bit odd, indeed. Paladins in PoE aren't the D&D holy warrior types and have no particular undead-specific abilities (correction: they have one optional one, late game); they are zealots, warriors fighting for some particular cause/ideal/institution. They're also arguably better healers than Priests. So I'm not sure what you're going on about.

Edited by Loren Tyr

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I bit odd, indeed. Paladins in PoE aren't the D&D holy warrior types and have no particular undead-specific abilities.

Tbh, I like it that way.

Giving them extra powers against undead, is usually balanced by the slight underpowerness against other enemy types.

And every time you start a new RPG, you have to guess how many undeads from total there are going to be.

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I like paladins. I think they are good as they are, the best thing is that like all other classes in Poe can be built in a lot of different ways, most still Pretty effective. And as a tank i think they are not inferior to the warrior, since they can gain better deflecion and heal themself better. Maybe just a bit boring in solo, but thats all, in a party playtrough i always take 1.

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The biggest problems I have seen with paladins is liberating exhortation and deprive the unworthy. Also, the low range of lay on hands. 

 

I think that the suspend of liberating would be much more useful if it applied a spell effect similar to the litany against minor/major affliction on the priest.  As it stands you have two casts per encounter that I regularly use only for the effect to be once again applied a few seconds later by an enemy. The best way I have found to use this ability is simply to save it for my priest, after stunned, prone, etc., so he can then immediately cast his spell immunities/litany on other teammates or himself. It can be useful but still relies on another class to be truly effective. 

 

Deprive the unworthy is a single target ability that has no accuracy bonus.  Compared to the wizard arcane dampener which has an aoe, +10 acc, and can potentially be cast up to four times per rest. It is a huge deal when I miss with deprive in a battle because I can only pick one enemy per cast and has a smaller amount of uses.  On the plus side it is fast cast, slightly longer duration and you can use sworn enemy to help land a hit but it is still lacking comparatively to the wizard's option.

 

His heals are very strong and is capable of decent damage once you get sacred immolation however, up to that level thirteen I found him to be a very underwhelming tank/ damage dealer. Even with his higher defenses, on POTD it didn't matter until late game.  I was still getting hit by everything and the point of the paladin was pretty much lost.  PC paladin was a bit more useful because I could use disposition to get higher def much quicker but still felt weak.

 

He is definitely a hybrid class but I feel that some hybrid abilities are not strong enough when you are playing with a team(given you can just have other classes with the superior abilities).  That said he is still probably the best solo class and as far as I know the only one to be able complete The Ultimate achievement.

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Do Paladins really worth it? I tried to start a new campaign with a Paladin and this was to be my first time as a Paladin protagonist......

 

But I was really disappointed to find out that anything that a Paladin can do, there is always another class that can do it better.....they can't compete with damage dealers in damage output like rogues, rangers, ciphers...., they can't compete in support role with priests, they can't compete in mob control with wizards or druids and they can't compete in tanking with fighters or monks etc..........

 

People tell me that Paladins are melee support class and kind of jack of all trades and master of none, but I beg to differ...... Priests are the ones who are kind of jack of all trades and they are master of few as well, they can support, they can crowd control, they can also deal decent damage and can have high accuracy with deities boons (higher than Paladins), Priests can pretty much do almost anything that you build them for.........they can even serve as a frontliner as well if built for the purpose, may not be as resilient as a fighter but still can contribute very well at the front lines, if built with proper talents and use appropriate spells.....

 

Anything a Paladin can do a Priest can do better, so I really want to know, what a Paladin is good for? Does it really worth to play Paladin as a protagonist or is he just a side-liner who is outshined in pretty much all meaniful aspects of the game by other classes? 

 

I think Paladins are definetely much more useful than fighters as tanks and having a tank is important.

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Deprive the unworthy is a single target ability that has no accuracy bonus.  Compared to the wizard arcane dampener which has an aoe, +10 acc

You do realize the accuracy bonus on the wizard's spell is only there because the wizard's base accuracy is kind of ****, right?

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Do Paladins really worth it? I tried to start a new campaign with a Paladin and this was to be my first time as a Paladin protagonist......

 

But I was really disappointed to find out that anything that a Paladin can do, there is always another class that can do it better.....they can't compete with damage dealers in damage output like rogues, rangers, ciphers...., they can't compete in support role with priests, they can't compete in mob control with wizards or druids and they can't compete in tanking with fighters or monks etc..........

 

People tell me that Paladins are melee support class and kind of jack of all trades and master of none, but I beg to differ...... Priests are the ones who are kind of jack of all trades and they are master of few as well, they can support, they can crowd control, they can also deal decent damage and can have high accuracy with deities boons (higher than Paladins), Priests can pretty much do almost anything that you build them for.........they can even serve as a frontliner as well if built for the purpose, may not be as resilient as a fighter but still can contribute very well at the front lines, if built with proper talents and use appropriate spells.....

 

Anything a Paladin can do a Priest can do better, so I really want to know, what a Paladin is good for? Does it really worth to play Paladin as a protagonist or is he just a side-liner who is outshined in pretty much all meaniful aspects of the game by other classes?

 

I agree with a lot of what has been raised here. If a paladin had a 1vs1 fight with a fighter the fighter would win easily I think beacuse of the fighter talents unbending and unbroken. Unbending is an incredibly powerful ability that doesn't get mentioned much on these forums. The fighter can also dish out higher damage due to weapon specialisations.

 

Paladins are still fun to play with though, I have managed to be able to build them to there tank/ buff role with limited success.

 

I can't build barbarians that have any real relevance yet but I'm still trying.

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Do Paladins really worth it? I tried to start a new campaign with a Paladin and this was to be my first time as a Paladin protagonist......

 

But I was really disappointed to find out that anything that a Paladin can do, there is always another class that can do it better.....they can't compete with damage dealers in damage output like rogues, rangers, ciphers...., they can't compete in support role with priests, they can't compete in mob control with wizards or druids and they can't compete in tanking with fighters or monks etc..........

 

People tell me that Paladins are melee support class and kind of jack of all trades and master of none, but I beg to differ...... Priests are the ones who are kind of jack of all trades and they are master of few as well, they can support, they can crowd control, they can also deal decent damage and can have high accuracy with deities boons (higher than Paladins), Priests can pretty much do almost anything that you build them for.........they can even serve as a frontliner as well if built for the purpose, may not be as resilient as a fighter but still can contribute very well at the front lines, if built with proper talents and use appropriate spells.....

 

Anything a Paladin can do a Priest can do better, so I really want to know, what a Paladin is good for? Does it really worth to play Paladin as a protagonist or is he just a side-liner who is outshined in pretty much all meaniful aspects of the game by other classes?

I agree with a lot of what has been raised here. If a paladin had a 1vs1 fight with a fighter the fighter would win easily I think beacuse of the fighter talents unbending and unbroken. Unbending is an incredibly powerful ability that doesn't get mentioned much on these forums. The fighter can also dish out higher damage due to weapon specialisations.

 

Paladins are still fun to play with though, I have managed to be able to build them to there tank/ buff role with limited success.

 

I can't build barbarians that have any real relevance yet but I'm still trying.

 

 

Its not a one on one arena match, its a team based game. On a team a Paladin brings so much more that it is incomparable to a Fighter.

 

Enemy Fighters are tough to fight because they are tough to kill. Even on PotD I don't find my parties in serious death struggles where I need a Fighter to go to that extreme in order to survive the encounter. All of the extra survivability of the Fighter is wasted as it is hardly ever needed. Meanwhile all of the team enhancing abilities of the Paladin are used every encounter in order to improve the efficiency of the team and manage the team's resource usage.

 

If the game was balanced such that only a team buffed Fighter could survive an encounter Fighters would be much more useful, even necessary, but the game would be much worse as you'd need to follow the one true optimal team in order to play rather than the multiple paths that the game allows which can all be successful.

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Do Paladins really worth it? I tried to start a new campaign with a Paladin and this was to be my first time as a Paladin protagonist......

 

But I was really disappointed to find out that anything that a Paladin can do, there is always another class that can do it better.....they can't compete with damage dealers in damage output like rogues, rangers, ciphers...., they can't compete in support role with priests, they can't compete in mob control with wizards or druids and they can't compete in tanking with fighters or monks etc..........

 

People tell me that Paladins are melee support class and kind of jack of all trades and master of none, but I beg to differ...... Priests are the ones who are kind of jack of all trades and they are master of few as well, they can support, they can crowd control, they can also deal decent damage and can have high accuracy with deities boons (higher than Paladins), Priests can pretty much do almost anything that you build them for.........they can even serve as a frontliner as well if built for the purpose, may not be as resilient as a fighter but still can contribute very well at the front lines, if built with proper talents and use appropriate spells.....

 

Anything a Paladin can do a Priest can do better, so I really want to know, what a Paladin is good for? Does it really worth to play Paladin as a protagonist or is he just a side-liner who is outshined in pretty much all meaniful aspects of the game by other classes?

 

I agree with a lot of what has been raised here. If a paladin had a 1vs1 fight with a fighter the fighter would win easily I think beacuse of the fighter talents unbending and unbroken. Unbending is an incredibly powerful ability that doesn't get mentioned much on these forums. The fighter can also dish out higher damage due to weapon specialisations.

Paladins are still fun to play with though, I have managed to be able to build them to there tank/ buff role with limited success.

I can't build barbarians that have any real relevance yet but I'm still trying.

 

Its not a one on one arena match, its a team based game. On a team a Paladin brings so much more that it is incomparable to a Fighter.

 

Enemy Fighters are tough to fight because they are tough to kill. Even on PotD I don't find my parties in serious death struggles where I need a Fighter to go to that extreme in order to survive the encounter. All of the extra survivability of the Fighter is wasted as it is hardly ever needed. Meanwhile all of the team enhancing abilities of the Paladin are used every encounter in order to improve the efficiency of the team and manage the team's resource usage.

 

If the game was balanced such that only a team buffed Fighter could survive an encounter Fighters would be much more useful, even necessary, but the game would be much worse as you'd need to follow the one true optimal team in order to play rather than the multiple paths that the game allows which can all be successful.

Yeah obvisouly a paly is more of a team player. But he is a front line team player first and foremost and a fighter outshines him in that role and a priest outshines him in the buffing role.

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Okay, let's be clear here.

 

A Fighter's tanking ability on PotD is literally OVERKILL (technically even a Paladin's tanking ability is overkill). You do not need it. It's over-tanking. Kind of like over-healing in an MMO. Every extra bit of toughness over what you need is wasted. That is never a reason to pick a Fighter over a Paladin. There are reasons, but that isn't one of them.

 

Oh and after level 13 a fighter cannot out-damage a paladin without the use of some kind of gimicky lore build.

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Personally, I like to keep a Paladin around most times I play.  The buffs are decent, but there's other reasons to keep them.  One is that on PotD you need several frontliners, and Paladins hold their own.  Another is that the nastier bosses can pile damage on single target characters, vanilla Ardra dragon and Ice Dragon are probably the worst of these.  They can occasionally hit so hard that you need two healers on a single target, and taking two priests is a waste.  Perhaps the most important reason is that Paladins are great back up in case your priest gets killed.  Reviving your priest or your mage turns the tide in knock-down, drag out fights (like the first time I fought Concelhaut).  The next time I play, I'll probably be a chanter and still keep a paladin, but skip the fighter.  Team synergies are more important than having one slightly stronger character.

 

And yes, you can build a fighter so that virtually nothing can hurt them.  So what?  They keep aggro for **** in most of those builds, occupying three mobs while their fifteen friends head straight for the wizard or ranger.

 

 

 

 

Do Paladins really worth it? I tried to start a new campaign with a Paladin and this was to be my first time as a Paladin protagonist......
 
But I was really disappointed to find out that anything that a Paladin can do, there is always another class that can do it better.....they can't compete with damage dealers in damage output like rogues, rangers, ciphers...., they can't compete in support role with priests, they can't compete in mob control with wizards or druids and they can't compete in tanking with fighters or monks etc..........
 
People tell me that Paladins are melee support class and kind of jack of all trades and master of none, but I beg to differ...... Priests are the ones who are kind of jack of all trades and they are master of few as well, they can support, they can crowd control, they can also deal decent damage and can have high accuracy with deities boons (higher than Paladins), Priests can pretty much do almost anything that you build them for.........they can even serve as a frontliner as well if built for the purpose, may not be as resilient as a fighter but still can contribute very well at the front lines, if built with proper talents and use appropriate spells.....
 
Anything a Paladin can do a Priest can do better, so I really want to know, what a Paladin is good for? Does it really worth to play Paladin as a protagonist or is he just a side-liner who is outshined in pretty much all meaniful aspects of the game by other classes?


I agree with a lot of what has been raised here. If a paladin had a 1vs1 fight with a fighter the fighter would win easily I think beacuse of the fighter talents unbending and unbroken. Unbending is an incredibly powerful ability that doesn't get mentioned much on these forums. The fighter can also dish out higher damage due to weapon specialisations.
Paladins are still fun to play with though, I have managed to be able to build them to there tank/ buff role with limited success.
I can't build barbarians that have any real relevance yet but I'm still trying.
 
Its not a one on one arena match, its a team based game. On a team a Paladin brings so much more that it is incomparable to a Fighter.
 
Enemy Fighters are tough to fight because they are tough to kill. Even on PotD I don't find my parties in serious death struggles where I need a Fighter to go to that extreme in order to survive the encounter. All of the extra survivability of the Fighter is wasted as it is hardly ever needed. Meanwhile all of the team enhancing abilities of the Paladin are used every encounter in order to improve the efficiency of the team and manage the team's resource usage.
 
If the game was balanced such that only a team buffed Fighter could survive an encounter Fighters would be much more useful, even necessary, but the game would be much worse as you'd need to follow the one true optimal team in order to play rather than the multiple paths that the game allows which can all be successful.

Yeah obvisouly a paly is more of a team player. But he is a front line team player first and foremost and a fighter outshines him in that role and a priest outshines him in the buffing role.

 

 

Don't Paladin and Priest buffs stack?  In that case it's not an either or for buffing.

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