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US Elections 2016


Gorth

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I'm not with you? I dont know the details ....sorry what do you mean?

10 second google search

 

Sorry I did know about this story, Howard Dean is perfectly entitled to vote for Hilary Clinton

 

He has been a supporter of her for ages, he is  a very astute politician. I honestly find it unreasonable and arrogant that the people of Vermont think he has no right to vote for who he feels is the correct candidate

 

I'm not why this even became an issue,,,isnt the principle of voting in the USA sacrosanct where people are allowed to vote for who they want? Or do we break traditional rules  because the people of Vermont now like Sanders?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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L0L To get what I was getting at read the exchange that Bruce and I had just prior to that. <>

Volo please just post what you want ....I'm not going to try to guess what you mean

 

I want to understand your point but surly you can provide links if you want people to understand your point...I'm being honest

 

I dont get your point ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I'm not why this even became an issue,,,isnt the principle of voting in the USA sacrosanct where people are allowed to vote for who they want? Or do we break traditional rules  because the people of Vermont now like Sanders?

Stop being obtuse Bruce.

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I'm not why this even became an issue,,,isnt the principle of voting in the USA sacrosanct where people are allowed to vote for who they want? Or do we break traditional rules  because the people of Vermont now like Sanders?

Stop being obtuse Bruce.

 

No you see you basically expect Howard Dean to somehow not have the same rights as every other USA citizen....remember Baro we aren't Americans. This is not Oz voting where people just vote for whoever they think looks good. In the USA some of these candidates have been planning this for years....its understandable

 

I still fail to see why you think Dean should be  going  against his principles ? 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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No you see you basically expect Howard Dean to somehow not have the same rights as every other USA citizen.

Still ignoring the heart of the controversy.

 

This is not Oz voting where people just vote for whoever they think looks good.

?

 

I still fail to see why you think Dean should be  going  against his principles ?

"Principles". Edited by Barothmuk
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Why do you care about Howard Dean? He's entirely inconsequential.

Also, he was chairman of the DNC. A prerequisite of being chair of either the RNC or DNC is that you are an unprincipled #*@!. To be clear: Dean has no principles to go against.

Edit:

Dean's greatest contribution to American politics, and probably what's going on in his head much of the time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DeanScream.ogg

Edited by Valsuelm
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Why do you care about Howard Dean? He's entirely inconsequential.

 

Also, he was chairman of the DNC. A prerequisite of being chair of either the RNC or DNC is that you are an unprincipled #*@!. To be clear: Dean has no principles to go against.

 

Edit:

 

Dean's greatest contribution to American politics, and probably what's going on in his head much of the time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DeanScream.ogg

Its become an issue because the reality is the people of Vermont feel he should now vote for Sanders ..because the majority of people in Vermont will be voting for Sanders...once again its a strange view and makes no sense to me

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Why do you care about Howard Dean? He's entirely inconsequential.

 

Also, he was chairman of the DNC. A prerequisite of being chair of either the RNC or DNC is that you are an unprincipled #*@!. To be clear: Dean has no principles to go against.

 

Edit:

 

Dean's greatest contribution to American politics, and probably what's going on in his head much of the time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DeanScream.ogg

Its become an issue because the reality is the people of Vermont feel he should now vote for Sanders ..because the majority of people in Vermont will be voting for Sanders...once again its a strange view and makes no sense to me

 

 

Ah.

 

You're confusing Dean's role as a 'super-delegate' with his vote as everyday citizen X.

 

The people of Vermont have a legitimate complaint over Dean's potential act as a 'super-delegate', and the 'super-delegate' system overall.

 

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No you see you basically expect Howard Dean to somehow not have the same rights as every other USA citizen.

Still ignoring the heart of the controversy.

 

This is not Oz voting where people just vote for whoever they think looks good.

?

 

I still fail to see why you think Dean should be  going  against his principles ?

"Principles".

 

Baro its not a controversy, you feel it is but I am telling you Dean can vote for who he wants

 

Yes and Oz politics....you can't tell me you think its stable ? You have people getting replaced in the middle of there term and then people decide to replace that candidate. You have a  PM getting replaced because Oz citizens suddenly get mood swings...its very chaotic to me and seems a little odd 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Why do you care about Howard Dean? He's entirely inconsequential.

 

Also, he was chairman of the DNC. A prerequisite of being chair of either the RNC or DNC is that you are an unprincipled #*@!. To be clear: Dean has no principles to go against.

 

Edit:

 

Dean's greatest contribution to American politics, and probably what's going on in his head much of the time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DeanScream.ogg

Its become an issue because the reality is the people of Vermont feel he should now vote for Sanders ..because the majority of people in Vermont will be voting for Sanders...once again its a strange view and makes no sense to me

 

 

Ah.

 

You're confusing Dean's role as a 'super-delegate' with his vote as everyday citizen X.

 

The people of Vermont have a legitimate complaint over Dean's potential act as a 'super-delegate', and the 'super-delegate' system overall.

 

 

Okay so what is the issue because according to the Link Dean doesn't think there is an issue ?

 

What legitimate right do the citizens have over Dean around who he can vote for?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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It's not an issue of him voting like someone else from Vermont, it's the issue of him being a superdelegate and having the equivalent voting power of 1/16th of the entire primary voters in Vermont.

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands

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Yes and Oz politics....you can't tell me you think its stable ? You have people getting replaced in the middle of there term and then people decide to replace that candidate. You have a PM getting replaced because Oz citizens suddenly get mood swings...its very chaotic to me and seems a little odd.

That's internal party wankery. Little to do with the whims of the Australian public.
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It's not an issue of him voting like someone else from Vermont, it's the issue of him being a superdelegate and having the equivalent voting power of 1/16th of the entire primary voters in Vermont.

Yes sure but once again I ask a simple question....does the USA Constitution not allow him to vote for who he wants?

 

So it seems what would make people happy if Dean used his superdelegate rights to vote for Sanders ....that would be okay right?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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It's not an issue of him voting like someone else from Vermont, it's the issue of him being a superdelegate and having the equivalent voting power of 1/16th of the entire primary voters in Vermont.

Yes sure but once again I ask a simple question....does the USA Constitution not allow him to vote for who he wants?

 

So it seems what would make people happy if Dean used his superdelegate rights to vote for Sanders ....that would be okay right?

 

He can vote for anyone he wants in the general election. He gets one vote. He can support any Democrat he wants at the convention, including one not even running if he wants. The rules of the party allow that. The Democratic Party is not very democratic. They want the voters to give an opinion but they want the voters to know they don't get the final say. What is happening in the GOP is the very reason why the Dems made their rules this way.

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"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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Yes sure but once again I ask a simple question....does the USA Constitution not allow him to vote for who he wants?

 

So it seems what would make people happy if Dean used his superdelegate rights to vote for Sanders ....that would be okay right?

Again Bruce, the issue is not who Dean votes for as a Democratic primary voter or general election voter, it's that he is a superdelegate and his support for Clinton is the equivalent of 1/16th of the entire state of Vermont. It's criticism of the superdelegate system in the Democratic primary because it is undemocratic.

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands

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Yes sure but once again I ask a simple question....does the USA Constitution not allow him to vote for who he wants?

 

So it seems what would make people happy if Dean used his superdelegate rights to vote for Sanders ....that would be okay right?

Again Bruce, the issue is not who Dean votes for as a Democratic primary voter or general election voter, it's that he is a superdelegate and his support for Clinton is the equivalent of 1/16th of the entire state of Vermont. It's criticism of the superdelegate system in the Democratic primary because it is undemocratic.

 

Okay well thats easy to address.....its not Deans fault the system is like that. Once Hilary is elected then you guys should push for changes

 

I just see that reason as a valid point but more a distraction as Dean cant change that 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Yes sure but once again I ask a simple question....does the USA Constitution not allow him to vote for who he wants?

 

So it seems what would make people happy if Dean used his superdelegate rights to vote for Sanders ....that would be okay right?

Again Bruce, the issue is not who Dean votes for as a Democratic primary voter or general election voter, it's that he is a superdelegate and his support for Clinton is the equivalent of 1/16th of the entire state of Vermont. It's criticism of the superdelegate system in the Democratic primary because it is undemocratic.

 

Okay well thats easy to address.....its not Deans fault the system is like that. Once Hilary is elected then you guys should push for changes

 

I just see that reason as a valid point but more a distraction as Dean cant change that 

 

 

Still trying to skew that people here are talking about Dean himself? No one here has said it was at all about him, it was about the power of superdelegates and he was used as an example. Are you deliberately obtuse or do you lack conceptual thinking?

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Yes sure but once again I ask a simple question....does the USA Constitution not allow him to vote for who he wants?

 

So it seems what would make people happy if Dean used his superdelegate rights to vote for Sanders ....that would be okay right?

Again Bruce, the issue is not who Dean votes for as a Democratic primary voter or general election voter, it's that he is a superdelegate and his support for Clinton is the equivalent of 1/16th of the entire state of Vermont. It's criticism of the superdelegate system in the Democratic primary because it is undemocratic.

 

Okay well thats easy to address.....its not Deans fault the system is like that. Once Hilary is elected then you guys should push for changes

 

I just see that reason as a valid point but more a distraction as Dean cant change that 

 

 

Still trying to skew that people here are talking about Dean himself? No one here has said it was at all about him, it was about the power of superdelegates and he was used as an example. Are you deliberately obtuse or do you lack conceptual thinking?

 

You funny :lol:  

 

I just addressed the question of the super delegates ....in the post you quoted. I said " its not Deans fault the system is like that. Once Hilary is elected then you guys should push for changes" 

 

Meshugger I like you...you really weird but you are also the last person who should be calling me  obtuse....and this term " conceptual thinking "  ....are you sure you want to debate something that has a unclear meaning for you?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Sweet Jesus.

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Yes sure but once again I ask a simple question....does the USA Constitution not allow him to vote for who he wants?

 

So it seems what would make people happy if Dean used his superdelegate rights to vote for Sanders ....that would be okay right?

Again Bruce, the issue is not who Dean votes for as a Democratic primary voter or general election voter, it's that he is a superdelegate and his support for Clinton is the equivalent of 1/16th of the entire state of Vermont. It's criticism of the superdelegate system in the Democratic primary because it is undemocratic.

 

Okay well thats easy to address.....its not Deans fault the system is like that. Once Hilary is elected then you guys should push for changes

 

I just see that reason as a valid point but more a distraction as Dean cant change that 

 

 

Still trying to skew that people here are talking about Dean himself? No one here has said it was at all about him, it was about the power of superdelegates and he was used as an example. Are you deliberately obtuse or do you lack conceptual thinking?

 

You funny :lol:

 

I just addressed the question of the super delegates ....in the post you quoted. I said " its not Deans fault the system is like that. Once Hilary is elected then you guys should push for changes" 

 

Meshugger I like you...you really weird but you are also the last person who should be calling me  obtuse....and this term " conceptual thinking "  ....are you sure you want to debate something that has a unclear meaning for you?

 

He is correct Bruce. You are either completely misunderstanding what has been written by many here, and is easily located via search engine, or you are going out of your way to ignore pertinent facts and your mind is truly does lack the ability to think, conceptually, critically, as well as objectively.

 

You will find no honest ethical person, Democrat, Republican, or whatever, who understands the 'super-delegate' system that will defend it. It is an absolute cowpie system, created by corrupt Ftards, and generally made up of corrupt Ftards such as Dean.

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Yes sure but once again I ask a simple question....does the USA Constitution not allow him to vote for who he wants?

 

So it seems what would make people happy if Dean used his superdelegate rights to vote for Sanders ....that would be okay right?

Again Bruce, the issue is not who Dean votes for as a Democratic primary voter or general election voter, it's that he is a superdelegate and his support for Clinton is the equivalent of 1/16th of the entire state of Vermont. It's criticism of the superdelegate system in the Democratic primary because it is undemocratic.

 

Okay well thats easy to address.....its not Deans fault the system is like that. Once Hilary is elected then you guys should push for changes

 

I just see that reason as a valid point but more a distraction as Dean cant change that 

 

 

Still trying to skew that people here are talking about Dean himself? No one here has said it was at all about him, it was about the power of superdelegates and he was used as an example. Are you deliberately obtuse or do you lack conceptual thinking?

 

You funny :lol:

 

I just addressed the question of the super delegates ....in the post you quoted. I said " its not Deans fault the system is like that. Once Hilary is elected then you guys should push for changes" 

 

Meshugger I like you...you really weird but you are also the last person who should be calling me  obtuse....and this term " conceptual thinking "  ....are you sure you want to debate something that has a unclear meaning for you?

 

He is correct Bruce. You are either completely misunderstanding what has been written by many here, and is easily located via search engine, or you are going out of your way to ignore pertinent facts and your mind is truly does lack the ability to think, conceptually, critically, as well as objectively.

 

You will find no honest ethical person, Democrat, Republican, or whatever, who understands the 'super-delegate' system that will defend it. It is an absolute cowpie system, created by corrupt Ftards, and generally made up of corrupt Ftards such as Dean.

 

Interesting, you also dont seem to comprehending my basic point? Guys for the last time, I'm not defending it as I mention in the post quoted AGAIN by you :)

 

 

We cant fix it now, wait till after the election then push for change? Its about activism Vals ....its about not just complaining on a forum. This is why I spend so much time  on radio talk shows discussing politics and events that influence SA 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Yes and Oz politics....you can't tell me you think its stable ? You have people getting replaced in the middle of there term and then people decide to replace that candidate. You have a  PM getting replaced because Oz citizens suddenly get mood swings...its very chaotic to me and seems a little odd

Most of those changes of PM's in Australia the last 10 years were internal party squabbles in the Labour party. They have this weird thing that gives the unions a disproportional influence and they practise cloak and dagger politics a lot. Kevin and Julia taking turns gathering enough votes at political meetings to have each other dragged out of office in the middle of the night and replaced with new labour leader cliques, replacing the top powerstructures with "loyal legionaires" while disposing of anyone loyal to the ruling Caesar PM. It's quite entertaining in a tv drama kind of way. Australia also has an unusually short maximum term of 3 years before new elections are required, making it even more impressive that they backstab each other before elections are up anyway.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Yes and Oz politics....you can't tell me you think its stable ? You have people getting replaced in the middle of there term and then people decide to replace that candidate. You have a  PM getting replaced because Oz citizens suddenly get mood swings...its very chaotic to me and seems a little odd

Most of those changes of PM's in Australia the last 10 years were internal party squabbles in the Labour party. They have this weird thing that gives the unions a disproportional influence and they practise cloak and dagger politics a lot. Kevin and Julia taking turns gathering enough votes at political meetings to have each other dragged out of office in the middle of the night and replaced with new labour leader cliques, replacing the top powerstructures with "loyal legionaires" while disposing of anyone loyal to the ruling Caesar PM. It's quite entertaining in a tv drama kind of way. Australia also has an unusually short maximum term of 3 years before new elections are required, making it even more impressive that they backstab each other before elections are up anyway.

 

Yes, I was referring to Kevin and Julia

 

 

How does a PM get replaced in Oz before his term ends? Who can vote them out....it just seems like a fragile system because the reality is you can't  expect the average common citizen to really understand who is the best person to run a country?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Yes and Oz politics....you can't tell me you think its stable ? You have people getting replaced in the middle of there term and then people decide to replace that candidate. You have a  PM getting replaced because Oz citizens suddenly get mood swings...its very chaotic to me and seems a little odd

Most of those changes of PM's in Australia the last 10 years were internal party squabbles in the Labour party. They have this weird thing that gives the unions a disproportional influence and they practise cloak and dagger politics a lot. Kevin and Julia taking turns gathering enough votes at political meetings to have each other dragged out of office in the middle of the night and replaced with new labour leader cliques, replacing the top powerstructures with "loyal legionaires" while disposing of anyone loyal to the ruling Caesar PM. It's quite entertaining in a tv drama kind of way. Australia also has an unusually short maximum term of 3 years before new elections are required, making it even more impressive that they backstab each other before elections are up anyway.

 

Yes, I was referring to Kevin and Julia

 

 

How does a PM get replaced in Oz before his term ends? Who can vote them out....it just seems like a fragile system because the reality is you can't  expect the average common citizen to really understand who is the best person to run a country?

 

Get enough important party members to summon an impromptu caucus and elect a new party leader. Simple as that. The people vote for the party, not the person, so in the end, the party decides who resides in the "cottage" (the PM's residence, like the White House and 10, Downing Street).

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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