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Revan91

Obsidian, let Sawyer do his historical rpg

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Well, the title is already pretty clear, but I've read many Sawyer's interviews in which he said how he would love to make a real historical rpg someday, preferably set in the Holy Roman Empire around the 15th and 16th centuries, basically a Darklands spiritual heir. 

I personally am very fascinated by what could be done in that kind of setting and game, and I think I'm not the only one who feels this way. As much as I loved PoE and am eager to see a proper sequel in the next years (hopefully sooner rather than later!), I also believe that Obsidian (and other developers) should explore different settings as well, since there are far too many fantasy and basically no one is making a true historical rpg (aside from Kingdom Come, which is a completely different product, though), so it may be an interesting opportunity for the company as well. Here, on these very forums, many people expressed their desires to see more games based on other settings in the future (to be honest, I'd like to have more sci-fi games, or a new Vampire, or an Alpha Protocol heir as well), so the usual assumption that rpg fans only enjoy fantasy games and therefore you have to make one if you hope to make money is wrong.

 

Granted, the game would probably resonate with a smaller audience than PoE, D:OS or TToN, but it wouldn't need a higher budget than any of these games (maybe even less than PoE because Obsidian already has the engine and the tech side covered thanks to their work with Eternity), so I don't think it would be too risky a project for the company from a business point of view, on the contrary I think it could prove to be still profitable. Besides, we don't really know how big that market is since there is no game like that, it could target some of the people that like historical games like the Total Wars (for example, I have friends who don't usually play rpgs but love medieval or roman settings and would definetely play a game set in those times even if it's not their prefered genre, I know it's not really a good sample or anything but nonetheless I believe many other people feel the same way).

Maybe the project could be funded through a new crowdfunding campaign, to see how well it resonates with people, if Obsidian is not sure if the pitch would sell well.

 

Despite all the business considerations that are not really my things, though, I think it could be a very interesting project for your fans and for the rpg genre as a whole. Besides, one of your most talented guys has repeatedly stated how that's his dream rpg project and he did an excelent work on both New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity, so why not give him another chance? ;)

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Sawyer playing Darklands.

 

Edited by Leferd

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Granted, the game would probably resonate with a smaller audience than PoE, D:OS or TToN

 

 

I don't believe this is the case. The setting/being fantasy or not or syfy or not etc is little to do with smaller or bigger audience. It will come down to what type of game it is and how well its gameplay then maybe story-writing. If it's an AAA fps/tps game than it will attract a lot more people regardless of it being realistic history/fantasy/syfy/PA etc. if a realistic RPG in Roman period would be done in the style of PoE with the same budget, it wouldn't be a lot more nor a lot less successful than PoE IMO.

 

Movies were around long before games, it would be a lot more clear what most people wants from movies by this time than what people wants from games and there are a lot more realistic history movies or realistic movies than there are fantasy movies, so why do we assume most people wants fantasy when it comes to gaming?

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I'm not too hots for a "history" RPG that goes too far back in time.

 

Not to say it couldn't be an interesting set up with interesting stories, that Darklands spiritual thingy, but I kinda find going too far back too reminiscent to conventional fantasy from a thematic and gameplay perspective and through that it bores me.

 

I'd rather have a setting that explores the scientific and technological "revolution" of the past couple of centuries.

Edited by Undecaf

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Granted, the game would probably resonate with a smaller audience than PoE, D:OS or TToN

 

 

I don't believe this is the case. The setting/being fantasy or not or syfy or not etc is little to do with smaller or bigger audience. It will come down to what type of game it is and how well its gameplay then maybe story-writing. If it's an AAA fps/tps game than it will attract a lot more people regardless of it being realistic history/fantasy/syfy/PA etc. if a realistic RPG in Roman period would be done in the style of PoE with the same budget, it wouldn't be a lot more nor a lot less successful than PoE IMO.

 

Movies were around long before games, it would be a lot more clear what most people wants from movies by this time than what people wants from games and there are a lot more realistic history movies or realistic movies than there are fantasy movies, so why do we assume most people wants fantasy when it comes to gaming?

 

Well, it's what most publishers think and have repeated over the course of the years, but I agree with you if you say there's room for other settings as well, just as I said in my first post.

Anyway, I believe the game, in Josh Sawyer's mind, was to be an isometric rpg with turn combats (or real time with pause), not an AAA production, and I think it could be a very interesting project with some familiar elements (the top-down view and maybe the engine from PoE) but also unique because of the setting that we don't usually see in games.

 

 

 

Maybe if that Deliverance game delivers Obsidian will think about it. 

 

 

Kingdom Come may help to prove that people likes a historical setting, however it's a very different kind of game from what Obsidian or at least Sawyer would probably do for their own historical rpg. Still, I, for one, am looking forward to see what will come out of Deliverance, it seems a promising game.

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It should play during the 30 Years War if we're already in the HRE. That would be killer awesome! Religious fanatics whipping up everyone, political turmoil all over the country, endless war and destruction... that would be freakishly dark and cool. A true historical horror RPG!

Edited by Campylobacter Jejuni
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I'm ambivalent. It would be a fun setting, maybe, but as a queer lady, I tend to enjoy being able to play as queer ladies, and depending how closely you follow history, that...may not be a playable option. :/


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I'm ambivalent. It would be a fun setting, maybe, but as a queer lady, I tend to enjoy being able to play as queer ladies, and depending how closely you follow history, that...may not be a playable option. :/

I'd like to play a gay character too, and I hope you would be allowed to do it, but get executed or something if you're caught for realism's sake. I don't know if they would be willing to do something as dark as this though.

 

Anyway I think something like this is unlikely right now, considering Sawyer is currently knee deep in Pillars 2.

Edited by RingMachine

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I'm ambivalent. It would be a fun setting, maybe, but as a queer lady, I tend to enjoy being able to play as queer ladies, and depending how closely you follow history, that...may not be a playable option. :/

I'd like to play a gay character too, and I hope you would be allowed to do it, but get executed or something if you're caught for realism's sake. I don't know if they would be willing to do something as dark as this though.

Anyway I think something like this is unlikely right now, considering Sawyer is currently knee deep in Pillars 2.

 

Obsidian isn't exactly pro-romance, so you probably wouldn't get a chance to have sex with other guys, but beyond that nothing prevents from making a gay character even in that kind of setting. I mean, it's your character after all.

 

With that said, I would really hate to see Obsidian go the BioWare way and focus that much on romances and/or include all that LGBT useless sh1t in their games, especially the half of your party is gay/bisex thing (they're just a small percentile of the global population after all). 

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I'm ambivalent. It would be a fun setting, maybe, but as a queer lady, I tend to enjoy being able to play as queer ladies, and depending how closely you follow history, that...may not be a playable option. :/

I'd like to play a gay character too, and I hope you would be allowed to do it, but get executed or something if you're caught for realism's sake. I don't know if they would be willing to do something as dark as this though.

 

Anyway I think something like this is unlikely right now, considering Sawyer is currently knee deep in Pillars 2.

 

Obsidian isn't exactly pro-romance, so you probably wouldn't get a chance to have sex with other guys, but beyond that nothing prevents from making a gay character even in that kind of setting. I mean, it's your character after all.

 

 

It's not that Obsidian is against romance, it's just that they're a lot more subtle about it than most other developers. There was basically romance in Mask of the Betrayer and KotOR 2, even if the characters weren't kissing eachother awkwardly Bioware-style. And New Vegas had all those Lady Killer and Confirmed Bachelor dialogue options to hit on a bunch of people.

 

 

 

With that said, I would really hate to see Obsidian go the BioWare way and focus that much on romances and/or include all that LGBT useless sh1t in their games, especially the half of your party is gay/bisex thing (they're just a small percentile of the global population after all). 

 

I'm pretty sure New Vegas had more gay characters than any Bioware game.

Edited by RingMachine

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I'm pretty sure New Vegas had more gay characters than any Bioware game.

You do realise there is a big difference between a male prostitute and being gay? In addition, I'm pretty sure Bioware was credited with creating the first truly gay character in DA: Inquisition. Previously they had all been written as being romance-able by either gender, which is not actually gay.

 

Oh, and to stay on topic, I'd love for him to just focus on Pillars 2 - can't wait to hear more about it and hope they go to kickstarter/fig.

Edited by bjon045

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I'm pretty sure New Vegas had more gay characters than any Bioware game.

In addition, I'm pretty sure Bioware was credited with creating the first truly gay character in DA: Inquisition.

 

 

I suppose Sam Smith did the research on that one too. :p

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I'm pretty sure New Vegas had more gay characters than any Bioware game.

You do realise there is a big difference between a male prostitute and being gay?

Um, yes? New Vegas had plenty of gay characters who weren't prostitutes. Not sure how you came up with that one.

 

In addition, I'm pretty sure Bioware was credited with creating the first truly gay character in DA: Inquisition. Previously they had all been written as being romance-able by either gender, which is not actually gay.

Bull. If we're only counting companions, New Vegas alone had Arcade and Veronica who were purely gay.

 

Anyway sorry for going off topic, I just hate it when people spread misinformation.

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Bull. If we're only counting companions, New Vegas alone had Arcade and Veronica who were purely gay.

 

Anyway sorry for going off topic, I just hate it when people spread misinformation.

Apologies, I was actually referring to player characters not npc and I wouldn't really call the followers in F:NV as player characters although some might argue they are. In addition I believe it is the romance-able characters people are taking issue with - not characters like Arcade and Veronica, tons of games have had gay characters in the game world and that is nothing new. I am pretty sure DA:I had the first gay PC, and by gay I mean only gay - not romanace-able by both gender.

 

It doesn't bother me too much as long as there is an obvious mechanism to avoid any possible relationship whether straight or gay. I think what some people took issue with Bioware about was that the typical party in their recently games are mostly bi-sexual and it quite often gets in your face, even when they are not looking to pursue anything. For me personally, I found that in DA2 Bioware spent a lot of time on building a large number of romance options and that time should of been spent on actually making the game good and not re-using zone after zone. BG2 probably had a right balance for me, can't remember how many there were but i think it was less than 5 and they weren't very sophisticated and probably didn't take a lot of dev time - unlike the "cinematic" ones that bioware creates these days.

 

Have you got an example of a gay player character that is romance-able in a game apart from Dorian? I'm guessing there might be a few in jrpgs or more obscure titles but I honestly can't recall any.

Edited by bjon045

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I'm ambivalent. It would be a fun setting, maybe, but as a queer lady, I tend to enjoy being able to play as queer ladies, and depending how closely you follow history, that...may not be a playable option. :/

I'd like to play a gay character too, and I hope you would be allowed to do it, but get executed or something if you're caught for realism's sake. I don't know if they would be willing to do something as dark as this though.

Anyway I think something like this is unlikely right now, considering Sawyer is currently knee deep in Pillars 2.

 

Obsidian isn't exactly pro-romance, so you probably wouldn't get a chance to have sex with other guys, but beyond that nothing prevents from making a gay character even in that kind of setting. I mean, it's your character after all.

 

 

It's not that Obsidian is against romance, it's just that they're a lot more subtle about it than most other developers. There was basically romance in Mask of the Betrayer and KotOR 2, even if the characters weren't kissing eachother awkwardly Bioware-style. And New Vegas had all those Lady Killer and Confirmed Bachelor dialogue options to hit on a bunch of people.

 

Sawyer has said many times that he doesn't like romances and the way they're usually made in games. Avellone before him had pretty much the same stance on romances, now he's no longer at Obsidian but still every time an Obs developer has spoken about romances they weren't really praising them. 

Yes, MotB had romances and even KotOR II and NWN2 had some kind of romances, but it's clearly not a key feature for Obsidian games, and thankfully so I might add.

In New Vegas you can have sex with certain NPCs (mostly just prostitutes btw, most of the perks options just let you flirt with some guys or gals and have discounts or some bonus items, etc.), but there's no romance whatsoever in the game.

 

 

 

With that said, I would really hate to see Obsidian go the BioWare way and focus that much on romances and/or include all that LGBT useless sh1t in their games, especially the half of your party is gay/bisex thing (they're just a small percentile of the global population after all). 

 

 

I'm pretty sure New Vegas had more gay characters than any Bioware game.

 

NV has Arcade and Veronica, in ME3 and DAI there are a lot more LGBT characters though.

 

Anyway, just to be clear, it's perfectly okay to have gay characters in games. It's not okay to forcedly include LGBT characters even when they don't make any sense in the game world, just because you want to please a niche of your audience that want/like/demand those things.

 

Also, I think is weird to see so many openly gay characters in games based on Medieval Europe (fantasy games as well), since it wasn't exactly easy to live as a gay in those times, while certainly in modern or futuristic settings that would not be unrealistic.

But we're off topic and LGBT and romances aren't really interesting topics to discuss here.

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Christ, I didn't mean to derail the topic THIS MUCH.

I wasn't complaining about romances or a lack thereof AT ALL. I was lamenting that in a historical setting, queer characters would be ostracized, killed, or worse JUST FOR EXISTING. Didn't matter if they were actively romancing anyone or not.

 

So that's why I'm ambivalent: I'd like to be able to play a queer character without getting stoned by villagers, even if there are very few other queer characters in the game.

But on the other hand, history is cool, and if Sawyer has some really good ideas it could be done well.

That's all.


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In response to the title, I hope its not another cheap lump of atheistic crap, like PoEs main story.........final act of PoE was shamefully disappointing in this regard, felt like I was reading a piece from some kind of atheist text......don't want to see this again, absolutely....

Edited by Brimsurfer

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You already have a thread for this. Go post there.

 

EDIT: Reported, btw.

Edited by Achilles
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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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You already have a thread for this. Go post there.

 

EDIT: Reported, btw.

This is a seperate topic in a seperate section and I wanted to contribute my impressions and concerns here.......

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Mr Sawyer treated the faith of the peoples of the Zion canyon in Honest Hearts with respect and a fair minded balance, and I don't recall whether the nature of the deities in Poe was even his idea, I think therefore that it's a little early to be blaming the gentleman for trying to promote an agenda. Then again i'm sure Mr Sawyer has broad enough shoulders to withstand this latest accusation, it's hardly a new thing by now.

 

Edit: If anything the narrative reminded me of Saxo Grammaticus' treatment of the Old Norse pantheon in his interpretation of the Sigurdr Saga.

Edited by Nonek
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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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So that's why I'm ambivalent: I'd like to be able to play a queer character without getting stoned by villagers, even if there are very few other queer characters in the game.

But on the other hand, history is cool, and if Sawyer has some really good ideas it could be done well.

That's all.

 

Heh, that would never get into a game. I mean, if you would play a gay character and suddenly the village hears about you and they start to throw stones, etc. It will take literally minutes after people found out about it to start a huge fuzz about it, no matter the presentation. I can already see the twitter posts "bigot Obsidian says gay people must be stoned". Just remember the silly limerick one of the PoE backers wrote. It was nothing, yet people made a huge thing out of it. After all, it's the idiots who scream the loudest.

Edited by Lexx

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