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Please tell me I heard incorrectly

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The thing about the funding is that it wasn't some magical level, now we're funded, let's stop and make the game. There were stretch goals. There were additional bennies, perks, and game goodies that made it into the game because they achieved additional funding. No matter how you cut it, the high tier backers, the guys who shelled out enough for NPCs, allowed for more content. People who enjoy a lot of stuff in the game got some of that because of the backers. Now, to be clear, if some backer guy came in and acted like an asshat, he'd deserve some ridicule, I guess. I would still say that he was an important part of getting the game going.

 

I don't think anyone should be blamed for the gold named NPCs in the game because I don't think it was a mistake, but if it were, it would be Obsidian's mistake. They made the pitch and allowed a certain number of people to buy into that tier. The backers who shelled out the cash for it were simply taking advantage of what they thought was an opportunity. I don't have any money, personally, but I don't begrudge people who backed the game getting what they were offered for the pledge they made.

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bother?

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the severe blow to immersion and atmosphere that we got as a result of the npc backers

 

Did you even try it yet, or are you just imagining the worst?

 

To clarify, the mini-stories are lore-appropriate, i.e. they reflect (usually mundane) situations that took place in the game world. It's just that they don't impact the game's plot or sidequests.

Also, there is a good in-game reason for why you can read those stories. The NPCs don't exactly "tell" them to you. Can't say more without spoilers...

They're really not a bad feature per se; my main complaints are that they don't impact the plot/quests, and that there are so many of them of various levels of interestingness (rather than keeping them few but interesting).

 

In any case, the IE Mod has an option for disabling those stories from coming up - i.e. it turns those backer NPCs into classic mute filler NPCs. So install that if they bother you so much.

 

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"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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I don't understand what's "immersion breaking" (the sound you're hearing right now is me throwing up at the utterance of that dreaded word) about the Backer NPCs. They're set dressing with associated in-universe short stories that tie back to the character's abilities.

 

Like.. I get the tombstones (as already mentioned it's really not that different from Fallout 1 and 2 and BG1 and 2), but the backer NPCs?

 

That said, yeah, I'm absolutely okay with reworking the way they are implemented in any future Obsidian KS project. The backer NPCs in Wasteland 2 felt much more seamlessly integrated and I believe most of them wouldn't be noticeable to a player that wasn't specifically told they were backer NPCs.

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Jeez, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Don't want to see their stories don't click on the backers/tombstones. It's not rocket science. They are as immersion breaking as you want them to be. Just ignore them and you'll be fine.


"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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Since you know they are backer npc, it should easy to ignore.

When I 1st played the game I had no idea wtf was going on. I thought it had meaning for the game to reach their souls, that they were some important npcs or an important event was happening. After I learned what was their purpose I just ignored them and very soon I forgot that they even exist. They were just commoners of the land.

 

Seriously, it's no big deal. Knowing beforehand who they are is even less a big deal. 

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Honestly, if you didn't find Minsc's "Full plate and packing steel" comments and Edwin's "Mouse magic" and various other "humourous repeated clicking responses" of the other characters immersion breaking then you won't find the backer NPCs immersion-breaking, and while the graveyard scribblings are potentially immersion-breaking they won't show up unless you click on them.  


"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Really, the OP didn't seem concerned about the monuments, which makes sense. The 'immersion breaking' of the monuments are no different that virtually every CRPG I've ever played. The only difference is, Kickstarter allows the devs to make money off of the goofy stuff. They tend to fall into a few categories as far as I can tell. Some are meant to be funny. Some are meant to call attention to the backer. Some are extremely personal and have significance to the person who made them and serve that purpose regardless of whether other folks click on them or not.


bother?

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And anyway, as long as there aren't any other townsfolk hanging around, you can just kill the backer NPC's for some extra loot ;)

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And anyway, as long as there aren't any other townsfolk hanging around, you can just kill the backer NPC's for some extra loot wink.png

I find that gaming the system in such a manner breaks my immersion. <.< >.>
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bother?

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"Yes, oh omnipresent authority figure?"

"Stop touching me!"

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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I think some backer npcs had quite intresting stories. For me they added more flavour to the gameworld which is always a nice thing. Think them as random adventurers, citizens etc.

 

I think it would have been even cooler if there was a side quest  or two tied into them. Or maybe you discovered some cool new items by talking to them? :) Or maybe you could invite / hire them to your stronghold...

Edited by Carados
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For me, the problem with backer NPC lies mostly with their names. They break fourth wall like nobody's business. Come on, guys, was it so hard to give them something lore-friendly, instead of weakly disguised pastiches of real names and video game characters? I mean, Reirnu Xalxijrei? Really? What's next, Gearaldo From Reavaia? Macks Paiihn? Ryuyu Hayabuzza? Johhnei Smid? Jane Doo?

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For me, the problem with backer NPC lies mostly with their names. They break fourth wall like nobody's business. Come on, guys, was it so hard to give them something lore-friendly, instead of weakly disguised pastiches of real names and video game characters? I mean, Reirnu Xalxijrei? Really? What's next, Gearaldo From Reavaia? Macks Paiihn? Ryuyu Hayabuzza? Johhnei Smid? Jane Doo?

 

It is surprisingly hard to come with good name in that relative short time that you have when you get notice that you need to sent it in. Especially when when developers haven't released much of information about world or its lore in that point of time. Some backers did have conversations with Josh about lore and names used in Eora, but not all. I would guess that there would had been more setting fitting names if Obsidian had released general naming guide for Eora that backers could had looked before they sent their NPCs in.

 

I didn't do any backer content for PoE, but I did do them in InXile's Torment: Tides of Numenera, and I had quite hard time to come up with good name for my content even though I have setting book in my hand and I have played Numenera as table top rpg. Luckily for people that will play that game I got some help from its developers, so my content isn't as awful as it would had been without their input.

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For me, the problem with backer NPC lies mostly with their names. They break fourth wall like nobody's business. Come on, guys, was it so hard to give them something lore-friendly, instead of weakly disguised pastiches of real names and video game characters? I mean, Reirnu Xalxijrei? Really? What's next, Gearaldo From Reavaia? Macks Paiihn? Ryuyu Hayabuzza? Johhnei Smid? Jane Doo?

 

It is surprisingly hard to come with good name in that relative short time that you have when you get notice that you need to sent it in. Especially when when developers haven't released much of information about world or its lore in that point of time. Some backers did have conversations with Josh about lore and names used in Eora, but not all. I would guess that there would had been more setting fitting names if Obsidian had released general naming guide for Eora that backers could had looked before they sent their NPCs in.

 

I didn't do any backer content for PoE, but I did do them in InXile's Torment: Tides of Numenera, and I had quite hard time to come up with good name for my content even though I have setting book in my hand and I have played Numenera as table top rpg. Luckily for people that will play that game I got some help from its developers, so my content isn't as awful as it would had been without their input.

 

 

 

Leaving aside dubious "oh it's very hard to do so" argument... Guys from Obsidian had to approve these names, or else they wouldn't appear in-game in their current state. I doubt it was very hard to say "Dear backer, this name isn't really fitting with game lore, would you mind if we change submitted name of your NPC to something more adequate while keeping it similar, like this, for example?". Kickstarter page specifically said submitted names has to be "within reason". But whatever, I guess. Reaping what we sow and all.

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For me, the problem with backer NPC lies mostly with their names. They break fourth wall like nobody's business. Come on, guys, was it so hard to give them something lore-friendly, instead of weakly disguised pastiches of real names and video game characters? I mean, Reirnu Xalxijrei? Really? What's next, Gearaldo From Reavaia? Macks Paiihn? Ryuyu Hayabuzza? Johhnei Smid? Jane Doo?

 

It is surprisingly hard to come with good name in that relative short time that you have when you get notice that you need to sent it in. Especially when when developers haven't released much of information about world or its lore in that point of time. Some backers did have conversations with Josh about lore and names used in Eora, but not all. I would guess that there would had been more setting fitting names if Obsidian had released general naming guide for Eora that backers could had looked before they sent their NPCs in.

 

I didn't do any backer content for PoE, but I did do them in InXile's Torment: Tides of Numenera, and I had quite hard time to come up with good name for my content even though I have setting book in my hand and I have played Numenera as table top rpg. Luckily for people that will play that game I got some help from its developers, so my content isn't as awful as it would had been without their input.

 

 

 

Leaving aside dubious "oh it's very hard to do so" argument... Guys from Obsidian had to approve these names, or else they wouldn't appear in-game in their current state. I doubt it was very hard to say "Dear backer, this name isn't really fitting with game lore, would you mind if we change submitted name of your NPC to something more adequate while keeping it similar, like this, for example?". Kickstarter page specifically said submitted names has to be "within reason". But whatever, I guess. Reaping what we sow and all.

 

 

Like I said there was things that Obsidian could had done if they had wanted to ensure that backer NPCs have more lore fitting names. But my point was that it wasn't easy for backers that made those characters to give them more lore fitting names, one because there wasn't that much information about setting where one could use to come up with lore fitting name and second even if there had been more information about setting it is still not that easy to come up with nice lore fitting name (there is reason why lots of people use baby name books etc. material when they decide their children's names).

 

For Obsidian's defense they didn't have that many people working with PoE and even less that were capable to judge if name is fit for the setting. Also within reason means in KS page mostly references names that would be inappropriate or even affronting in our societies. Meaning that they said that it would be acceptable for example to give NPC your own name (which in most of the cases means that it would lore fitting, at least not with out explanation)

 

P.S. It could also be argued that every backer NPC has lore fitting name as there is not previously existed lore that would say otherwise and PoE itself defines what things fit to its lore/setting. So in sense backer NPCs define partially what kind names exist in Dyrwood and Eora as whole.

Edited by Elerond

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Meh. Didn't care for how the backer NPC's were handled in terms of keeping the names "lore-friendly". It also doesn't help that every other backer NPC seems to be a godlike character.

 

The stories, however, I find to be a joy. Some of the short stories were very gripping. The concept works, but the execution was marred by exotic nameplates and flamboyant character design. IMO, Obsidian should have filtered better.

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Part of my relative dislike of Twin Elms was the absence of backer NPCs, just lots of anonymous ones.

 

 

In PoE2 I would like to see all the *filler* NPCs be some kind of backer NPC so we don't get maps full of commoners, nobles, hunters etc.

 

I agree that the godlike races were over represented in the backer NPCs, for a future campaign OBS should decide what race distribution they want the NPC population to have and then have different pledge levels for the different races (EG godlike = most expensive).

 

Now there is a base of lore for Eora it should be easier to provide guidelines for NPCs that might be suitable for a location.

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Just don't read their souls. None of them were totally "immersion" breaking, but they are not great at all. Once I realized what they were, the game was much better because I skipped them lol.

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 since Obsidian's writers wrote the stories.

Are you sure? I seem to recall many of them being poorly written and cringe-worthy. Not at all something I'd expect from the actual Obs writers.

 

It's not cringeworthy, imo...your central character is a Watcher, remember, and several things in the story only begin to unfold after you have communed with a soul--the extras I don't mind as it's exactly what you'd expect--not every soul you read will provide information directly bearing on your life, etc.  People are upset because not every single soul you brush  has a bearing on the story, but I think that's silly, myself.  If anything, those snippets of souls simply broaden and deepen the game.  The only "silly" thing--as others have mentioned--are the gravestones--because none of them directly bear on the story or events (IIRC.)  But, lots of games are like that...At least the players are told in advance about these things and can avoid them if they wish. Believe me...they are not distracting...

 

Also, I'm not sure why people think that humor lessens the depth of a game...?  I don't get it, as I think the appropriate humor--gallows humor, etc.--is very lifelike and adds a lot to the game.  You even find humor in Lord of the Rings...the books, I mean.  It doesn't lessen the impact, imo, and if done right, can deepen the impact substantially.


It's very well known that I don't make mistakes, so if you should stumble across the odd error here and there in what I have written, you may immediately deduce--quite correctly--that I did not write it... :biggrin:

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It's not cringeworthy, imo...your central character is a Watcher, remember, and several things in the story only begin to unfold after you have communed with a soul--the extras I don't mind as it's exactly what you'd expect--not every soul you read will provide information directly bearing on your life, etc.

 

I think you misunderstand me. At least, your comment doesn't seem to address what I wrote. My point was nothing to do with whether or not the personal snippets you get from doing your Watcher mojo on the backer characters have anything to do with the plot, story, or your character. What I meant is I seem to recall many of those stories are just... poorly written. Which is why it would surprise me to learn that Obs' writers did them. Of course, I'll fully admit that my memory may be faulty and I'm mixing up those stories with some of the gravestone comments. But I don't think so.

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