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How are people finding the 3.0 patch changes?


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Personally the update to the UI is jarring. I didn't feel it was necessary and wasn't up on my to do list. Feel like time was wasted that could have been used fixing more important things.

 

Frankly I preferred being able to see all the things I could use and cast on display.

 

Never really got stressed having to figure out which one was per encounter or per rest... you just know? By all means categorize them but more submenus I feel is just creating extra work for me.

 

How does the public feel? do you prefer the declutter?

 

 

I looked at the change log and not one of the things that had bugged me recently had been addressed.

 

 

I think nerfing the per encounter spell uses was probably a good idea. I was at the point where I was spamming first level spells with the wizards ring and laying waste to everything. Stopped me mixing my tactics up and using high level spells. looking forward to the flexibility a 5th spell will bring.

 

Personally I can't believe they did such a big overhaul and didn't improve stealth.. The one thing everyone's been crying about. I can, generally, only use it on weak ass enemies and at that point taking one out of the game early is kind of redundant as they don't last more than a few second anyway.

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I looked at the change log and not one of the things that had bugged me recently had been addressed.

 

Not the first time a change log for this game is incomplete, though.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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I am finding the submenu for equipment( (etc.) abilities an annoyance.

That part of the UI was not cluttered, rather it showed you all available options, now it shows some and hides others :(

 

Stealth is fine, as previously stated it's more about being able to pre-position your characters than one-shotting a combat.

 

My experience with Grieving Mother at L7 is that ciphers have morphed from a damage/de-buff roll to primarily a de-buff roll due to focus cost changes.

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The cipher changes are both not as big a deal as they might seem, but also kinda painful, too.  I went over this in another thread ( https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83913-cipher-30-roll-a-wizard-instead/) but basically they've lost their "wow" factor; you end up using your early level powers through most of the midgame too. The problem is that because of the higher focus costs, a lot of the middle-game cipher powers just aren't worth the time cost to gather the focus for them any more.

 

Puppet Master costs three times as much as Whisper of Treason for the same 10 second's worth of charm-type effect. Body Attunement lasts only 15 seconds but costs 40 focus -- before, it was a good way to raise your focus gain vs. bosses, now it costs more than you gain back. Tactical Meld and Borrowed Instinct used to be great for boss fights, but now by the time you've got the focus for them, the wizard and  the priest have already dumped three or four major debuffs each the cipher's extra debuff is superfluous. 

 

This middle-game slump has always been an issue for ciphers, really -- the rank 4 and rank 5 powers have always been kinda lackluster, and the level 1,2, and 3 powers were always a cipher's staples -- but these changes plus the prior nerfs to Mental Binding have really brought it into focus.

 

Net result is ciphers now basically get all their good tools by level 5 or so and have to keep using that toolbox through level 10. My replay party is at level 9-10 right now, so things might change once I get the high level powers like Amplified Wave. 

 

The class is still perfectly playable and my Cipher character still has the highest damage total in the party, just from her blunderbuss, Soul Shock, and Ectopsychic Echo,  but there are a lot of levels where the other party members are getting fancy new tools and the cipher is pretty much doing the same thing they were doing before.

 

 

------------

 

That said otherwise I like the patch. There's a weird bug where I don't always get an "accept" button visual, but that might predate the patch. There are some missing strings. I have a weird bug where sometimes enemy debuffs don't clear from my character sheet (though they aren't active, it's just a visual thing). The AI has improved but still makes some basic mistakes like using Charm on creatures that I know are charm immune, or always summoning first-level chanter summons instead of waiting to build phrases for better summons.

 

The stronghold quests are a nice addition as are the items (though some of them, like the Witch's Hat, seem to be missing textures). 

Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy
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That said otherwise I like the patch. There's a weird bug where I don't always get an "accept" button visual, but that might predate the patch. There are some missing strings. I have a weird bug where sometimes enemy debuffs don't clear from my character sheet (though they aren't active, it's just a visual thing).

 

Both bugs predate the patch. However, enemy debuffs not disappearing was fixed in 2.03 so if you're getting it now, it means it's a regression. I would definitely raise this in the tech forum.

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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That said otherwise I like the patch. There's a weird bug where I don't always get an "accept" button visual, but that might predate the patch. There are some missing strings. I have a weird bug where sometimes enemy debuffs don't clear from my character sheet (though they aren't active, it's just a visual thing).

 

Both bugs predate the patch. However, enemy debuffs not disappearing was fixed in 2.03 so if you're getting it now, it means it's a regression. I would definitely raise this in the tech forum.

 

 

 

Yeah, I've got a whole list of minor bugs or unexplained design oddities (enhanced frenzy not helping frenzy from the Sanguine Plate; various missing srings, etc.)  that I've been keeping in notepad and I need to sit down, match up the screenshots, and make a big post. Just a matter of finding the time. With luck I'll get to it this weekend.

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The stronghold quests are a nice addition as are the items (though some of them, like the Witch's Hat, seem to be missing textures). 

Omigod, are you saying what I think/want you to be saying?  That they have pointy hats in the game??!  Please, good doctor, tell me it is so!

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Don't like the UI changes. I hate having to hover my Chanter's chants with the mouse to see where he is on chanting to quick fire an invocation. I will break auto-attack sometimes to cast the moment it is ready and knowing when that is coming lets me make that judgement. Where I use to be able to check it every time I paused by just glancing at the bottom left corner.

 

Neither here nor there on the debuffs from being incapacitated. It hasn't changed much for me.

 

I have very little opinion on the Cipher as I have never played one because they were so OP at the onset of the game, and I like balanced or even Under powered classes. I do think the nerf was a bit heavy handed, but I think it was because of the Spell Mastery change to Druids, Wizards, and Priests. I understand the why, but not to the extent it went.

 

I think the passive that reduces Chant times is a band-aid fix at best. New chant levels will bring longer chants that are immediately reduced by the talent. I have ideas brewing on how to fix them, but I think it is a large enough change to be an idea for PoE2. I still think they need some interesting "Chanter only" Talents. Ancient Memory and Beloved Spirits are boring and only marginally useful, and that's it. How many talents/abilities do other classes have? Cipher's have a slew of neat talents, so do Druids, Wizards, Priests, and every other class. These talents let the class stand apart and differintiate themselves. The Chanter picks spells and the same generic talents every other class has access too. The talent I have recommended multiple times that lets Chanters cast a scroll once per encounter without consuming the scroll is still something I would like to see. Talents that increase their personal weapon damage, elemental damage, speed, or whatever while chanting would be cool too. They could use more phrases and invocations as well.

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The action icons on the characters portraits have been very useful to me, since I am a micro-manager who rarely turns the AI on. The other UI changes I care little about.

 

I for one like the Knockout Injuries. They have made me play more carefully and value my resting supplies more. Or maybe it is because I am playing on PoTD.

 

In fact, the removal of many enemies in thrash fights and certain changes in encounter composition made me play PoTD, since when I tried it before 3.0 the endless mobs bored me to hell when I was able to fight them, and quickly ran over my party when I wasn't.

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Chanters might get some kind of talent like that of Cacofonix http://www.asterix.com/the-a-to-z-of-asterix/characters/cacofonix.html

More seriously they might get a jazz-like ability to improvise so that at the same levels wizards get spell *mastery* chanters can pick a L1-L2-L3 phrase that can be inserted into the current song 1/encounter.

 

I am finding that the new Second Wind ability has devalued all other forms of healing (normal difficulty), anyone one with any points in Athletics has it, you get all the endurance back in one hit and it's reasonably fast to use. Maybe Second Wind should function more like Continuous Recovery?

 

Survival is now a worthwhile skill but some of the camping bonuses it grants seem a bit odd (movement speed?) and whilst I can understand why survival might grant a ranger-like damage bonus I find the ability to re-tune it at will a bit *gamey*.

 

ALL immunity information is now displayed for monsters from first contact (even before you have a cyclopedia entry), this is very useful but does not feet right to me for a cRPG like PoE.

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Survival is incredibly powerful now for tough fights being able to give all my dps plus 20 accuracy and tanks and extra dr made early potd much easier

 

The only real issue is preist seals are now broken you can't use them at all as your spell casting will no longer work you have to removr the preist and put him back in party for spell casting to work again

 

Side note is there a list of what enemies are categorized as somewhere?

 

New up is a bit clunky but not that inconvient

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Side note is there a list of what enemies are categorized as somewhere?

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Creature

 

It's missing TWM creatures but once you get the picture, you'll be able to fill them in yourself.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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So bonuses from resting in, say, Caed Nua stack with bonuses from camping with Survival?

 

That's rather ... powerful.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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So bonuses from resting in, say, Caed Nua stack with bonuses from camping with Survival?

 

That's rather ... powerful.

 

They also stack with other buffs of the same type for example Paladin's Zealous Endurance and the DR bonus for a total of +7DR for each person at survival 7 and are as follows:

Survival

Camping bonuses are chosen on a per character basis from the camping menu based on that character's survival skill. There are 6 different bonuses you can choose from gained from survival 1-6. Survival 7 boosts the effectiveness of the rank 1 bonus, 8 boosts 2 and so on. Bonuses are as follows with boosted in brackets.

  • Rank 1 Damage Reduction - +2DR (+4DR)

  • Rank 2 Heal Multiplier - +15% healing done (+30%)

  • Rank 3 Movement - +1 Move speed (+2)

  • Rank 4 Racial Accuracy Bonus - Choose from Beast/Primordial/Spirit/Vessel/Wilder for +10 accuracy to that group. Possible bug Still only shows +10 for Racial accuracy bonus 2

  • Rank 5 Consumable Duraction - +20% consumable Duration (+40%) Reads ingame as +120/+140 but is only +20/40

  • Rank 6 Damage vs. Flanked - +10% Damage vs flanked (+20%)

 

Pallegina's new talents are a bit of a mixed bag.

The attack speed for allies (Vielo Vidorio available level 2) has a base duration of only 6.0 seconds which limits its a little bit in terms of use cases since you'll get 13.8 seconds per fight if you don't have any overlap with Palegina's base stats.

Wrath of the five suns on the other hand is freaking insane for when you can get it (level 6 earliest). It's 5 missiles with base 12-18 damage each (13-19 with her base might) at +20 accuracy and 10DR bypass as a 1/encounter ability. It can easily instapop spellcaster type mobs in Act 2 at the start of a fight removing a lot of headaches and if it doesn't you still get the benefits of sworn enemy making your FOD. It is burn damage so it's not as useful vs drakes and whatnot but you still get the benefit ofSworn enemy there so it's not completely dead.

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Pallegina's new talents are a bit of a mixed bag.

The attack speed for allies (Vielo Vidorio available level 2) has a base duration of only 6.0 seconds which limits its a little bit in terms of use cases since you'll get 13.8 seconds per fight if you don't have any overlap with Palegina's base stats.

...

 

 

I dunno.

+20% AoE attack speed bonus does not seem bad at all. How much is the AoE ? Comparable to zealous aura ?

 

When compared to +20% for 30s from hastening exhortation, it is pretty good.

Hastening exhortation is an ability (supposed to be better than talent), take about 2s to cast (Vielo Vidorio is basically a free action combined with FoD), is single target AND PER REST.

 

Honnestly, I find this talent rather nice, even if not OP.

Combine both FoD and Sworn ennemy and you'll get a decent 2-Hander/Firearm "DPS" sniper paladin.

Open with Sworn ennemy, then FoD with Arbalest, ennemy's dead.

 

Does the Sworm ennemy bonus apply to wrath of the five suns missiles ?

Edited by Elric Galad
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The stronghold quests are a nice addition as are the items (though some of them, like the Witch's Hat, seem to be missing textures). 

Omigod, are you saying what I think/want you to be saying?  That they have pointy hats in the game??!  Please, good doctor, tell me it is so!

 

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't have an in-game texture yet though.

Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy
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Survival is incredibly powerful now for tough fights being able to give all my dps plus 20 accuracy and tanks and extra dr made early potd much easier

 

The only real issue is preist seals are now broken you can't use them at all as your spell casting will no longer work you have to removr the preist and put him back in party for spell casting to work again

 

Side note is there a list of what enemies are categorized as somewhere?

 

New up is a bit clunky but not that inconvient

 

 

 

OH that is something I wanted to talk about.

 

The survival bonuses are probably too powerful given how versatile they are. They make a lot of previously unworkable builds a lot more viable without any other real tradeoffs.

 

For example, a barbarian can start out with base 2 survival, get 3 more on first level up, and by level 4 have +4 base DR. That's as good as padded, naked; another way of saying that is that +4 DR is worth 20% reaction penalty, or an Exceptional armor enchant. It's just a walloping good bonus and there isn't even really a penalty because they can swap it out for something else later if they want. 

 

Personally I think the modifiers should be about half what they are. Like, +1 DR per rank, +5 Accuracy per rank instead of +10, etc. 

 

EDIT: the problem isn't just with the DR. All the bonuses are a bit large. The +10 accuracy is twice what you get from Marksman talent, for example, and theoretically you could rest every time the next monster type changes, especially if you're following a guide.

Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy
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That's fair reasoning, however, the survival bonuses do come at the fairly significant cost of not stacking with inn bonuses by their nature, so while they're good they do come at a hidden cost.

 

You can totally stack inn bonuses and survival bonuses. The Inn bonuses, most of them, last for one or two additional rests, so you rest in the inn, then camp out with survival, and have both. It is a little wonky and takes some setup but it's totally doable, to the point that it frequently happens without trying -- you rest at an Inn, then later you camp, and you have both.

Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy
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The stronghold quests are a nice addition as are the items (though some of them, like the Witch's Hat, seem to be missing textures). 

Omigod, are you saying what I think/want you to be saying?  That they have pointy hats in the game??!  Please, good doctor, tell me it is so!

 

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't have an in-game texture yet though.

 

I... I'm in love!!!  :wub:   Finally, I can look awesome!

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"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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The witch's hat doesn't have a texture and the red Reed wand had what I assume is a placeholder inventory icon. The stronghold stuff is still work in progress I guess, but I like the extra effort put into content for it.

 

Edit: i remember one complaint now, seeing that picture of the witch's hat. I clicked on Menpwgra's Curse to see what it does and there was nothing there. I have no idea what the witch's hat is good for because clicking on its effect leads to a blank page!

Edited by house2fly
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