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The Last (Court) Battle of GamerGate: Feminists Lost, Free Speech Won

Canada criminal harassment Twitter Gregory Alan Elliott Stephanie Guthrie Heather Reilly Anita Sarkeesian

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#41
Oerwinde

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Gamergate has a lot of parallells to Feminism. Both have incredibly damaged reputations as a result of only their crazies getting any attention, and both won their big battles and are now just struggling to stay relevant.

Thats a good post

Do you feel on a personal level you were manipulated into supporting GG? And I'm not trying to catch you out or make you look silly. The type of manipulation I am referring to was subtle and surreptitious and took time to build so that when the Alexander article broke you were already frustrated by months of criticism from the likes of Anita so it would have been easy to align with GG?
I supported GG because I was frustrated with the state of games journalism. It seemed like every other article was about how the games I liked are disgusting filth and I should feel bad, and rather than reporting on games they were dictating to the devs how they should make their games. They made no effort to separate their news and opinion. I stopped being involved when it stopped being about games. While I tend to sympathize more with their side of the "culture war", I got involved because I felt games journalism was damaging to games, as the DOAX3 thing showed. But the DOAX3 thing was really the only big gaming controversy in a while, and most of Kotaku In Action is no longer games or gaming journalism related.

Edited by Oerwinde, 23 January 2016 - 11:31 AM.

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#42
BruceVC

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Gamergate has a lot of parallells to Feminism. Both have incredibly damaged reputations as a result of only their crazies getting any attention, and both won their big battles and are now just struggling to stay relevant.

Thats a good post

Do you feel on a personal level you were manipulated into supporting GG? And I'm not trying to catch you out or make you look silly. The type of manipulation I am referring to was subtle and surreptitious and took time to build so that when the Alexander article broke you were already frustrated by months of criticism from the likes of Anita so it would have been easy to align with GG?
I supported GG because I was frustrated with the state of games journalism. It seemed like every other article was about how the games I liked are disgusting filth and I should feel bad, and rather than reporting on games they were dictating to the devs how they should make their games. They made no effort to separate their news and opinion. I stopped being involved when it stopped being about games. While I tend to sympathize more with their side of the "culture war", I got involved because I felt games journalism was damaging to games, as the DOAX3 thing showed. But the DOAX3 thing was really the only big gaming controversy in a while, and most of Kotaku In Action is no longer games or gaming journalism related.

 

Your post makes perfect sense, I wish I knew what you just wrote before I joined anti-GG

 

The majority of gamers are like you, why should you feel uncomfortable or feel constantly criticized  by people pushing some misplaced SJ agenda. I understand why you supported GG, it makes sense

 

But it was Anita who started the whole " white gamers are bad, mkay as they are sexist and are opposed to transformation " 

 

It was unfair and she played a huge part in manipulating people to partake in the GG and anti-GG war



#43
licketysplit

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Supposedly both parties went back and forth for almost a year on Twitter. Which I gotta say, is really stupid on his part, especially with the likes of Guthrie. 



#44
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Yeah, what a lot of people celebrating his victory are losing here is that he's not a hero. He was harassing Reily, just not criminally. With Guthrie the harassment stems from her ideology and worldview. She believed she was being harassed because she didn't like having to hear his opinions on a public forum and assumed every time he tweeted to a hashtag she also frequented that it was directed towards her. She's a narcissist.

#45
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It's quite simple really. Want games to be free from outside influence in terms of creativity? Want games to be critized and reviewed completely on their own merit? Want games not to be subjected to the politics of the day by arm-chair academics? Want games just to be games. Good, then you're pro-GamerGate, as that was all that the scandal was about.

 
RANT TIME:
 
..it was always defending bad practices from publishers that practically abuse their game dev employees because otherwise you're "attacking gamers", taking the side of utter corporate ********s like Bethesda and UbiSoft over game devs that actually needed support. [..] Absolute tripe like Hatred doesn't become a runaway success [..] #GamerGate injects more arm-chair politics into gaming than feminists were ever able to, and companies are using it to promote games consumer lifestyle, not a promotion of game merit.

 

 
Always about defending publishers? The most defended publisher equivalent by far is Steam, and even it's copped a lot of flak over the past year (nowhere near as much as it deserves, but fanboys gonna fan) let alone how much usual culprits like Ubi and EA have taken. Most of the defence has been pointing out that publishers fundamentally aren't your friend and are there to make money off you so can be expected to be arses as opposed to journalists who (theoretically/ ideal(istic)ly) examine things critically and inform their readers.
 
You're right, absolute tripe like Hatred doesn't become a runaway success. Hatred hasn't even cleared 100k sales despite all the supposed frenzy. Being a crap game has trumped all the exposure it got by being over the top and deliberately triggering. It's an indie game, runaway success there is defined by the Legends of Grimrocks, FTLs or pre MS sale Minecraft- or at least something like Shadowrun or Banner Saga, and it hasn't got anywhere near those sales. For those who did buy it you can always fall back to the the old adage about fools and money; so no surprise they'd be loud and idiotic about other things too.
 
Certainly, people piggyback their beliefs onto GG but then people piggyback their beliefs onto My Little Pony or The Smurfs. It's what people do- and it's also what you've done here. Probably what I've done as well, for that matter.

 

(Yes, I know it was a rant, it just makes a nice illustration)
 

Haha, that is my point. Gaming used to be the only refuge from all politics, it was that special place were you could have that childish dream-state of simply having fun. For each attack by society calling it satanic, violent and what not, the journalists and alike stepped up and said "No, it's just games, **** off". Well, until the SJWs moved in and made themselves as cultural vanguards of what gaming is.
 
The videos you are talking about are the testament to highlight how other faculties of life are having or have had the same war. For example, just look at what happened with Atheism+.

 
Dude, please. He's 100% right that the vast majority of your contributions have been politicised stuff of questionable value almost as much as any sjw's has been. If your argument is that you are battling politicised drivel in games with your own politicised drivel then you're no better than them, if your argument is that you're being ironic then I'd point out there isn't much difference between irony and hypocracy, if your argument is that you aren't doing either but are instead 'dropping truth bombs' or similar then you're delusional about not bringing your own politics into games and using cringe inducing language to boot. Frankly, you've been doing the same thing with the immigration issue as well.

 

Breitbart or the Daily Fail are not friends of the gamer, they're politicised clickbait that happens to be anti sjw- and anti immigrant, for that matter.

 

(meta: obvious troll thread is obvious except on Obsidian forums iteration 25673/ ?????????)



#46
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"Volo how do you feel about your support for GG?

 

Do you realize some of your energy was misplaced and perhaps more an emotional reaction rather than logical...is there anything you regret?"

 

Regret what?  What have done I done to regret? Rant on the silly internet? LMAO I have 'done' nothing to reget. :p

 

 

"You'll find twenty posts about everything being "SJW nazis" in comment sections these days and then there's not even someone to make the accusation first. To explain it in terms you like to use: That's not defending yourself, that's plastering your politics everywhere like you're some kind of crazy SJW nazi to prevent any opinion being posted except your own. It's a kind of censorship, done by Nazis. Nazis like #GamerGate."

 

I have never asked anyone to be censored so your comment uselsss. Calling someone a SJW Nazi when they axct like a SJW Nazi is not censorship.  It is over the top exaggeration at WORST but often very accurate and spot on AT BEST.

 

People who act like SJW Nazis DESERVE to be called out. PERIOD.



#47
BruceVC

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"Volo how do you feel about your support for GG?

 

Do you realize some of your energy was misplaced and perhaps more an emotional reaction rather than logical...is there anything you regret?"

 

Regret what?  What have done I done to regret? Rant on the silly internet? LMAO I have 'done' nothing to reget. :p

 

 

"You'll find twenty posts about everything being "SJW nazis" in comment sections these days and then there's not even someone to make the accusation first. To explain it in terms you like to use: That's not defending yourself, that's plastering your politics everywhere like you're some kind of crazy SJW nazi to prevent any opinion being posted except your own. It's a kind of censorship, done by Nazis. Nazis like #GamerGate."

 

I have never asked anyone to be censored so your comment uselsss. Calling someone a SJW Nazi when they axct like a SJW Nazi is not censorship.  It is over the top exaggeration at WORST but often very accurate and spot on AT BEST.

 

People who act like SJW Nazis DESERVE to be called out. PERIOD.

Yes regret is the wrong word...what I mean is have you reviewed your opinion of the GG movement ? And this can be a good thing as you may have moved on from your original view? Most of us have changed our initial opinions

 

And the reason I am asking you is because you were the first person in the GG thread to say to me things like " how come I don't support white people " ....I initially dismissed what you were saying because I was on the anti-GG side but you were 100 % correct and I only realized later I was being inconsistent in my view :)



#48
Nonek

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I cannot argue with this, they are right, there is no excuse for such poor showings on Kickstarter when Obsidian, Larian and even more so Logic Artists are producing such fine content in comparison. The investors who got taken may be happy with being shortchanged, that is their right and the exploitable will remain a constant among consumers, but from what i've seen this does harm to crowdfunding as an alternative means to the publishing method.


If the investors are happy with the product, how does that harm crowdfunding? You are also making a judgement about being shortchanged. That is your opinion, one that does not seem to be shared by those willing to invest in Sarkeesian. You can make that same argument for Obsidian. Would it not bother you if a bunch of people complained about PoE being too old school and story based? You are clearly not her audience, so why should your opinion matter when it comes to crowdfunding. I am not her audience either, I wouldnt waste my time or money on such stuff, but as a business strategy I see nothing wrong with her approach, and actually admire her success.

People make money off stupid stuff all the time. There is no fraud here.

 

 

I'm glad that the investors are happy with being suckered and agree that such people are not going to learn or try to get what they paid for, the gullible will remain as such, however their opinion doesn't really matter in the argument i'm making: That crowdfundings image and potential to grow and be regarded as a legitimate funding method is harmed by Ms Saarkesian's laziness in not making a few more poorly researched videos, when massively overfunded and overdue, and this will deter possible future investors who are highly sceptical because of all this undelivered content on Kickstarter. Her and others taking advantage of the gullible and their money is tarnishing Kickstarters image to the outsider, and with good reason, who willingly throws away money on a scheme that is rife with massive amounts of peopel like the Schafers and Saarkesians taking advantage of the gullible?

 

Of course there is no fraud and I have never suggested such, the gullible have simply been taken as they will be all their lives, that is the way of things. However as I say its not about them but the image of Kickstarter, which is not growing brighter if what I have seen and heard is ought to judge by, and will not while scalpers take suckers for a ride. Personally I think a little oversight and a consumer friendly framework needs implementing, to bring crowdfunding up to the standard of various other purchases one makes.



#49
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Most of the Tropes vs women backers never cared about the content. They just heard about the abuse she was getting and wanted to stick it to the jerks attacking her. She made her money, they felt like they made a difference, and moved on.

#50
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Haha, that is my point. Gaming used to be the only refuge from all politics, it was that special place were you could have that childish dream-state of simply having fun. For each attack by society calling it satanic, violent and what not, the journalists and alike stepped up and said "No, it's just games, **** off". Well, until the SJWs moved in and made themselves as cultural vanguards of what gaming is.
 
The videos you are talking about are the testament to highlight how other faculties of life are having or have had the same war. For example, just look at what happened with Atheism+.

 
Dude, please. He's 100% right that the vast majority of your contributions have been politicised stuff of questionable value almost as much as any sjw's has been. If your argument is that you are battling politicised drivel in games with your own politicised drivel then you're no better than them, if your argument is that you're being ironic then I'd point out there isn't much difference between irony and hypocracy, if your argument is that you aren't doing either but are instead 'dropping truth bombs' or similar then you're delusional about not bringing your own politics into games and using cringe inducing language to boot. Frankly, you've been doing the same thing with the immigration issue as well.

 

Breitbart or the Daily Fail are not friends of the gamer, they're politicised clickbait that happens to be anti sjw- and anti immigrant, for that matter.

 

(meta: obvious troll thread is obvious except on Obsidian forums iteration 25673/ ?????????)

 

 

Again with the relativism where no truth exist. I pity you.



#51
Volourn

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"Yes regret is the wrong word...what I mean is have you reviewed your opinion of the GG movement ? And this can be a good thing as you may have moved on from your original view? Most of us have changed our initial opinions

 

And the reason I am asking you is because you were the first person in the GG thread to say to me things like " how come I don't support white people " ....I initially dismissed what you were saying because I was on the anti-GG side but you were 100 % correct and I only realized later I was being inconsistent in my view"

 

Except I've been very consistent.  I still don't like being accused of being a white male gamer rapist monsterous murderer. :)


Edited by Volourn, 23 January 2016 - 05:22 PM.

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#52
Zoraptor

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Again with the relativism where no truth exist. I pity you.

Please, you're coming off as the right wing equivalent of Bruce (OK, with better grammar, spelling and fewer inane smilies) and frankly have been for some time. I find it hard to believe that's what you're aiming for but if it is please let me know.

 

99% of the time when people complain about 'relativism' they don't have a clue what it means and it's because someone has just challenged them and they don't have an asterisking clue how to respond so are looking for a cheap bail out that allows them to not wonder why they don't have an asterisking clue how to respond. Yeah, you're somewhat better than the hard edge SJWs are because you aren't trying to impose your views on others* but so what, if you think being mildly better than people you deride is great then you don't have very high aspirations at all and should accept that others are going to point it out. Which is pretty much exactly what TN was saying about GG. "There are no wrong tactics, only wrong targets" is a load of bollocks no matter who says it.

 

*though it has to be stressed, often those labelled as sjws aren't actually trying to impose their views either but just hold a 'progressive' view point.


Edited by Zoraptor, 23 January 2016 - 06:12 PM.

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#53
Volourn

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"but just hold a 'progressive' view point."

 

\Define 'progrssive'.



#54
Orogun01

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Yeah, what a lot of people celebrating his victory are losing here is that he's not a hero. He was harassing Reily, just not criminally. With Guthrie the harassment stems from her ideology and worldview. She believed she was being harassed because she didn't like having to hear his opinions on a public forum and assumed every time he tweeted to a hashtag she also frequented that it was directed towards her. She's a narcissist.

Maybe they rather stand up for an **** than an ideologue, of the two the latter seems the worst to be honest. 



#55
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Again with the relativism where no truth exist. I pity you.

Please, you're coming off as the right wing equivalent of Bruce (OK, with better grammar, spelling and fewer inane smilies) and frankly have been for some time. I find it hard to believe that's what you're aiming for but if it is please let me know.

 

99% of the time when people complain about 'relativism' they don't have a clue what it means and it's because someone has just challenged them and they don't have an asterisking clue how to respond so are looking for a cheap bail out that allows them to not wonder why they don't have an asterisking clue how to respond. Yeah, you're somewhat better than the hard edge SJWs are because you aren't trying to impose your views on others* but so what, if you think being mildly better than people you deride is great then you don't have very high aspirations at all and should accept that others are going to point it out. Which is pretty much exactly what TN was saying about GG. "There are no wrong tactics, only wrong targets" is a load of bollocks no matter who says it.

 

*though it has to be stressed, often those labelled as sjws aren't actually trying to impose their views either but just hold a 'progressive' view point.

 

 

Zora its not nice to insult people on a forum. You need to consider the impact harsh words from someone of your statue and influence may have  :teehee:

 

 But Meshugger this allows me  to comment because its weird but I have wanted to say something for exactly the reason Zora alluded to, I do see this criticism you are receiving from people like TN and Zora as something I went through and go through and I can identify with you ..even though you are on the opposite of me in some things . So here is something positive

 

You will receive criticism when you start following your own path around certain topics on a forum and in RL, the secret is to understand its part of your journey and its actually healthy. You just need to really believe what you say....if you don't believe it then thats fine but you need to take there advice 

 

Now I'm not going to analyse what TN said to you but I can use Zora as an example of what I mean ( sorry Zora but you did open yourself up to this and I do need to give an example for Meshuggers sake )

'

I don't dislike Zora, he is very intelligent, well informed, he has a good sense of humor and he is prepared to go into detail in a debate but he is fundamentally anti-Western and this is also  his greatest weakness. He constantly tries to find examples of events that will undermine the West and I will never pander to unfounded anti-Western sentiment so I have had numerous debates with him and seen him have debates with others. And yet he has never been right about one example of " this is going to really hurt the West " because his bias blinds him to the obvious reality ...The West despite its  flaws is the most effective ideology in the world and is superior to any other system of government or current ideology and a person like Zora just can't accept this 

 

So for example in the past he has debated 

  • The Ukraine conflict will lead to Russian dominance
  • The Russian economy will not be impacted by sanctions and falling oil price
  • The Greek austerity crisis will shatter the EU as the EU is being unfair
  • Merkel and Germany has utterly destroyed the EU by allowing refugees in
  • The accusation that Turkey is buying ISIS oil is true and will end the anti-ISIS coalition 
  • Turkey had no right to shoot the Russian plane down and now Russia will make them suffer

 

I can  go on and on but you get my point, so understand you will also end up debating with people who criticize you but in most cases you will prove them wrong, Now that doesn't mean you target people on purpose or  be malicious or gloat

 

But in summary you need to believe and understand what you post ...and realize you are now in a world where it is normal to get into numerous debates :)


Edited by BruceVC, 23 January 2016 - 08:42 PM.


#56
Zoraptor

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Mate, that couldn't catch a sardine.

 

 

\Define 'progrssive'.

 

progrssive: noun, syn 'nazi sjw'.


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#57
Meshugger

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Again with the relativism where no truth exist. I pity you.

Please, you're coming off as the right wing equivalent of Bruce (OK, with better grammar, spelling and fewer inane smilies) and frankly have been for some time. I find it hard to believe that's what you're aiming for but if it is please let me know.

 

99% of the time when people complain about 'relativism' they don't have a clue what it means and it's because someone has just challenged them and they don't have an asterisking clue how to respond so are looking for a cheap bail out that allows them to not wonder why they don't have an asterisking clue how to respond. Yeah, you're somewhat better than the hard edge SJWs are because you aren't trying to impose your views on others* but so what, if you think being mildly better than people you deride is great then you don't have very high aspirations at all and should accept that others are going to point it out. Which is pretty much exactly what TN was saying about GG. "There are no wrong tactics, only wrong targets" is a load of bollocks no matter who says it.

 

*though it has to be stressed, often those labelled as sjws aren't actually trying to impose their views either but just hold a 'progressive' view point.

 

 

No.

 

It is relativism because it puts a priori the opinion of SJWs on equal footing with everything else, as if they have a solid foundation to build moral judgements when they do not. For every link from Chomsky, Zizek to Zappa and Yiannopoulos, it is about highlighting the objective truth that they are wrong downright to a philosophical level. 

 

I am not talking about those with innocent ideas like we should all be seen as one and everyone deserves to self-actualize their own souls, i am talking about the slippery slope of people who will commit evil acts on their own conscience because they believe they are doing something good. Relativism.    

 



 

 

Lets talk about Zoraptor

 

 

The guy posts here like anyone else and you talk he cannot read your post. That's just weird.



#58
Sakai

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It is relativism because it puts a priori the opinion of SJWs on equal footing with everything else, as if they have a solid foundation to build moral judgements when they do not. For every link from Chomsky, Zizek to Zappa and Yiannopoulos, it is about highlighting the objective truth that they are wrong downright to a philosophical level. 

If i learned anything from this crapstorm, it's that so often "objective" truths happen to be so very subjective. More a matter of whose trench you're in right now, than anything else. 


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#59
Barothmuk

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Weren't you and KP meant to have a debate about this?

#60
BruceVC

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  • The Greek austerity crisis

 

Weren't you and KP meant to have a debate about this?

 

Yes we must have this debate but not now Baro, I have been having numerous debates on the radio and various forums and I just want to relax now :)







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