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The Last (Court) Battle of GamerGate: Feminists Lost, Free Speech Won

Canada criminal harassment Twitter Gregory Alan Elliott Stephanie Guthrie Heather Reilly Anita Sarkeesian

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#21
Nonek

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A nice victory for free speech and common sense, however I also don't see much connection to Gamergate, which is simply about asking for journalism that is fit for purpose for a multi billion dollar industry, rather than the proven corrupt and unethical practise that passes for journalism now and is defended by those who are pro corruption and unethical behaviour, and seek to excuse the demonisation and belittlements of innocent millions of consumers through crafting their elaborate conspiracy theories.

 

Then again treating others as untermensch only worthy of being looked down upon, and supporting the corrupt establishment is I suppose very fashionable now, and one can see why those who are drawn to this feel they are righteous when crafting their baseless conspracies. However the bomb threats, terrorism, the abuse of women and immoral if not illegal actions of the said supposedly righteous goes a step too far, and that I cannot empathise with nor understand, it is sheer hypocrisy.



#22
Gorgon

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Kinda sad to still be throwing around the 'death threats on the internet' excuse. I mean I suppose it's theoretically possible that some deluded individual of the kind that are drawn to celebrities will attempt to do her harm and in her own little pond she definitely is one. 

 

I just don't think it was ever going to happen and I don't buy that her fear of harassment is genuine. It's something to hit the opposition over the head with that you can't argue against without being called one of the harassers. 

 

Anyway it's probably a good move for her to attempt to leave all this internet fame and infamy behind and get a real job if she feels the cost is too high. 



#23
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LOL. "We want it to just be about games... it's the truth of the larger culture war!" Get your politics out indeed.

 

The SJWs came in with their politics and made into a culture war. Gamers just wanted to be left alone and play, but nooooo.....


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#24
TrueNeutral

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It makes perfect sense. You're not a true #GamerGater, the E-Celebs you hate for "co-opting" are. original.gif

 
There you go again, of course not. But it's alright, we all have our bad days, no need to push it. You're excused.

 
Yeah, I highly doubt you would see it. original.gif

LOL. "We want it to just be about games... it's the truth of the larger culture war!" Get your politics out indeed.


The SJWs came in with their politics and made into a culture war. Gamers just wanted to be left alone and play, but nooooo.....


Except literally every discussion we've had on this forum had you talk about nothing but Noam Chomsky's political views. That sounds like games to me.

#25
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Speaking of Anita, she is quitting: https://archive.is/pZvPr

 

I wonder what her Kickstarter supporters think of her not living up to her original commitments?

 

Finally, you guys seems to be confused. eCelebs using GamerGate to instill their opinions about anything and saying it is abouth GG does not make it so. But hey, if that makes it feel better about sitting on your high horses of neutrality and talks about sides, then be my guest. In reality, there's only right and wrong and anti-GG is simply is that. Wrong.

 

It's quite simple really. Want games to be free from outside influence in terms of creativity? Want games to be critized and reviewed completely on their own merit? Want games not to be subjected to the politics of the day by arm-chair academics? Want games just to be games. Good, then you're pro-GamerGate, as that was all that the scandal was about. Outside idiots who hates games and thinking that they can decide what gaming should be about were outed and laughed out of the industry.

 

This little post describes it much better than i ever could, as the very same kind of people and ideas went into gaming: http://i.imgur.com/gFB0CQ8.png

No my friend unfortunately you are equally as culpable as the rest of us for the protracted and unnecessary GG campaign

 

But Geez that last  link is terrible, people still have NO idea what SJ is about...or rather I should say " SJ on the Internet"

 

I won't go  into too much detail but the initial question just highlights how misunderstood the role of SJ is...why would you ask people who you have clearly antagonized and associate the words  " SJW" as an immediate insult " why dont you like SJW " 

 

You dont look for vindication in SJ  campaigns ....you don't do it for that reason. And you can see from the responses those people also have a very negative view of SJ

 

 

That last link is the truth of the matter of the larger culture war, but you are free to hide from it or claim that it is false as much as you wish.   

 

Its not as intense as a " cultural war  " ...I would say its more an Internet clash of ideals, how widespread would this be in RL?



#26
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It makes perfect sense. You're not a true #GamerGater, the E-Celebs you hate for "co-opting" are. :)

 

There you go again, of course not. But it's alright, we all have our bad days, no need to push it. You're excused. 

 

 

Yeah, I highly doubt you would see it. :)

 

 

Of course you're not making sense, you throw in things that had nothing to do with GG to begin with: Like Bethesda and Ubisoft are making **** games and are treating the employees badly, while a problem in itself it was not part of the scandal; how eCelebs are using their fanbase to ****post on youtube and finally you said that Hatred was made out pure politics by GamerGate while conveniently forgetting this game quite unknown outside of Postal-fans gor banned from Steam and GamerGate made sure that it was allowed back in. Quite simply you were angry that GamerGate wasn't what you wanted it to be and you had to vent for a bit, which is perfectly ok in itself.



#27
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Speaking of Anita, she is quitting: https://archive.is/pZvPr

 

I wonder what her Kickstarter supporters think of her not living up to her original commitments?

 

 

I've never understood why people who clearly disagree with Sarkeesian, probably don't watch her videos, and definitely did not pledge her kickstarter always try and make this argument.  Judging by her kickstarter page, there are 12 videos up with 3 hours and 40 minutes of content.  She has produced plenty of content.  She made a pretty penny doing so.  There is nothing wrong with that, it is capitalism at work.  

 

Looking at the comments from backers, it looks like quite a few of them are happy.  The idea that her initial outline doesn't match up with what you feel was delivered is inconsequential, because that is generally accepted as the risk you run in any crowdfunding project.  



#28
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It makes perfect sense. You're not a true #GamerGater, the E-Celebs you hate for "co-opting" are. :)

 

There you go again, of course not. But it's alright, we all have our bad days, no need to push it. You're excused. 

 

 

Yeah, I highly doubt you would see it. :)

 

 

Of course you're not making sense, you throw in things that had nothing to do with GG to begin with: Like Bethesda and Ubisoft are making **** games and are treating the employees badly, while a problem in itself it was not part of the scandal; how eCelebs are using their fanbase to ****post on youtube and finally you said that Hatred was made out pure politics by GamerGate while conveniently forgetting this game quite unknown outside of Postal-fans gor banned from Steam and GamerGate made sure that it was allowed back in. Quite simply you were angry that GamerGate wasn't what you wanted it to be and you had to vent for a bit, which is perfectly ok in itself.

 

To be fair he is making sense, he is just frustrated and he is taking a position you may not agree with 



#29
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Speaking of Anita, she is quitting: https://archive.is/pZvPr

 

I wonder what her Kickstarter supporters think of her not living up to her original commitments?

 

Finally, you guys seems to be confused. eCelebs using GamerGate to instill their opinions about anything and saying it is abouth GG does not make it so. But hey, if that makes it feel better about sitting on your high horses of neutrality and talks about sides, then be my guest. In reality, there's only right and wrong and anti-GG is simply is that. Wrong.

 

It's quite simple really. Want games to be free from outside influence in terms of creativity? Want games to be critized and reviewed completely on their own merit? Want games not to be subjected to the politics of the day by arm-chair academics? Want games just to be games. Good, then you're pro-GamerGate, as that was all that the scandal was about. Outside idiots who hates games and thinking that they can decide what gaming should be about were outed and laughed out of the industry.

 

This little post describes it much better than i ever could, as the very same kind of people and ideas went into gaming: http://i.imgur.com/gFB0CQ8.png

No my friend unfortunately you are equally as culpable as the rest of us for the protracted and unnecessary GG campaign

 

But Geez that last  link is terrible, people still have NO idea what SJ is about...or rather I should say " SJ on the Internet"

 

I won't go  into too much detail but the initial question just highlights how misunderstood the role of SJ is...why would you ask people who you have clearly antagonized and associate the words  " SJW" as an immediate insult " why dont you like SJW " 

 

You dont look for vindication in SJ  campaigns ....you don't do it for that reason. And you can see from the responses those people also have a very negative view of SJ

 

 

That last link is the truth of the matter of the larger culture war, but you are free to hide from it or claim that it is false as much as you wish.   

 

Its not as intense as a " cultural war  " ...I would say its more an Internet clash of ideals, how widespread would this be in RL?

 

 

I am not going to debate what words mean with you again.


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#30
BruceVC

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Speaking of Anita, she is quitting: https://archive.is/pZvPr

 

I wonder what her Kickstarter supporters think of her not living up to her original commitments?

 

Finally, you guys seems to be confused. eCelebs using GamerGate to instill their opinions about anything and saying it is abouth GG does not make it so. But hey, if that makes it feel better about sitting on your high horses of neutrality and talks about sides, then be my guest. In reality, there's only right and wrong and anti-GG is simply is that. Wrong.

 

It's quite simple really. Want games to be free from outside influence in terms of creativity? Want games to be critized and reviewed completely on their own merit? Want games not to be subjected to the politics of the day by arm-chair academics? Want games just to be games. Good, then you're pro-GamerGate, as that was all that the scandal was about. Outside idiots who hates games and thinking that they can decide what gaming should be about were outed and laughed out of the industry.

 

This little post describes it much better than i ever could, as the very same kind of people and ideas went into gaming: http://i.imgur.com/gFB0CQ8.png

No my friend unfortunately you are equally as culpable as the rest of us for the protracted and unnecessary GG campaign

 

But Geez that last  link is terrible, people still have NO idea what SJ is about...or rather I should say " SJ on the Internet"

 

I won't go  into too much detail but the initial question just highlights how misunderstood the role of SJ is...why would you ask people who you have clearly antagonized and associate the words  " SJW" as an immediate insult " why dont you like SJW " 

 

You dont look for vindication in SJ  campaigns ....you don't do it for that reason. And you can see from the responses those people also have a very negative view of SJ

 

 

That last link is the truth of the matter of the larger culture war, but you are free to hide from it or claim that it is false as much as you wish.   

 

Its not as intense as a " cultural war  " ...I would say its more an Internet clash of ideals, how widespread would this be in RL?

 

 

I am not going to debate what words mean with you again.

 

Why? Semantics do matter when it comes to the impact of certain things and how we should interpret them?



#31
TrueNeutral

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It makes perfect sense. You're not a true #GamerGater, the E-Celebs you hate for "co-opting" are. original.gif

 
There you go again, of course not. But it's alright, we all have our bad days, no need to push it. You're excused.

 
Yeah, I highly doubt you would see it. original.gif

 
Of course you're not making sense, you throw in things that had nothing to do with GG to begin with: Like Bethesda and Ubisoft are making **** games and are treating the employees badly, while a problem in itself it was not part of the scandal; how eCelebs are using their fanbase to ****post on youtube and finally you said that Hatred was made out pure politics by GamerGate while conveniently forgetting this game quite unknown outside of Postal-fans gor banned from Steam and GamerGate made sure that it was allowed back in. Quite simply you were angry that GamerGate wasn't what you wanted it to be and you had to vent for a bit, which is perfectly ok in itself.


No, you get it. I am talking about things that had nothing to do with GG. Because GG was about "we just want games to be about games". Except, all those things were all GG talked about. Ever. You yourself posted about nothing but identity politics and post-modernism and Noam Chomsky and Richard Dawkins in our "journalism in the game industry threads". #GamerGaters say they want people to keep politics out of games, but all evidence shows that they just want different politics in games.
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#32
Meshugger

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Speaking of Anita, she is quitting: https://archive.is/pZvPr

 

I wonder what her Kickstarter supporters think of her not living up to her original commitments?

 

Finally, you guys seems to be confused. eCelebs using GamerGate to instill their opinions about anything and saying it is abouth GG does not make it so. But hey, if that makes it feel better about sitting on your high horses of neutrality and talks about sides, then be my guest. In reality, there's only right and wrong and anti-GG is simply is that. Wrong.

 

It's quite simple really. Want games to be free from outside influence in terms of creativity? Want games to be critized and reviewed completely on their own merit? Want games not to be subjected to the politics of the day by arm-chair academics? Want games just to be games. Good, then you're pro-GamerGate, as that was all that the scandal was about. Outside idiots who hates games and thinking that they can decide what gaming should be about were outed and laughed out of the industry.

 

This little post describes it much better than i ever could, as the very same kind of people and ideas went into gaming: http://i.imgur.com/gFB0CQ8.png

No my friend unfortunately you are equally as culpable as the rest of us for the protracted and unnecessary GG campaign

 

But Geez that last  link is terrible, people still have NO idea what SJ is about...or rather I should say " SJ on the Internet"

 

I won't go  into too much detail but the initial question just highlights how misunderstood the role of SJ is...why would you ask people who you have clearly antagonized and associate the words  " SJW" as an immediate insult " why dont you like SJW " 

 

You dont look for vindication in SJ  campaigns ....you don't do it for that reason. And you can see from the responses those people also have a very negative view of SJ

 

 

That last link is the truth of the matter of the larger culture war, but you are free to hide from it or claim that it is false as much as you wish.   

 

Its not as intense as a " cultural war  " ...I would say its more an Internet clash of ideals, how widespread would this be in RL?

 

 

I am not going to debate what words mean with you again.

 

Why? Semantics do matter when it comes to the impact of certain things and how we should interpret them?

 

 

Because you make out your own definitions of words on the fly and refuse to abide by conventions made by the dictionary.


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#33
BruceVC

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Speaking of Anita, she is quitting: https://archive.is/pZvPr

 

I wonder what her Kickstarter supporters think of her not living up to her original commitments?

 

Finally, you guys seems to be confused. eCelebs using GamerGate to instill their opinions about anything and saying it is abouth GG does not make it so. But hey, if that makes it feel better about sitting on your high horses of neutrality and talks about sides, then be my guest. In reality, there's only right and wrong and anti-GG is simply is that. Wrong.

 

It's quite simple really. Want games to be free from outside influence in terms of creativity? Want games to be critized and reviewed completely on their own merit? Want games not to be subjected to the politics of the day by arm-chair academics? Want games just to be games. Good, then you're pro-GamerGate, as that was all that the scandal was about. Outside idiots who hates games and thinking that they can decide what gaming should be about were outed and laughed out of the industry.

 

This little post describes it much better than i ever could, as the very same kind of people and ideas went into gaming: http://i.imgur.com/gFB0CQ8.png

No my friend unfortunately you are equally as culpable as the rest of us for the protracted and unnecessary GG campaign

 

But Geez that last  link is terrible, people still have NO idea what SJ is about...or rather I should say " SJ on the Internet"

 

I won't go  into too much detail but the initial question just highlights how misunderstood the role of SJ is...why would you ask people who you have clearly antagonized and associate the words  " SJW" as an immediate insult " why dont you like SJW " 

 

You dont look for vindication in SJ  campaigns ....you don't do it for that reason. And you can see from the responses those people also have a very negative view of SJ

 

 

That last link is the truth of the matter of the larger culture war, but you are free to hide from it or claim that it is false as much as you wish.   

 

Its not as intense as a " cultural war  " ...I would say its more an Internet clash of ideals, how widespread would this be in RL?

 

 

I am not going to debate what words mean with you again.

 

Why? Semantics do matter when it comes to the impact of certain things and how we should interpret them?

 

 

Because you make out your own definitions of words on the fly and refuse to abide by conventions made by the dictionary.

 

No I don't ?Can you give me an example....I will be surprised if you are right?



#34
Nonek

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Speaking of Anita, she is quitting: https://archive.is/pZvPr

 

I wonder what her Kickstarter supporters think of her not living up to her original commitments?

 

 

I've never understood why people who clearly disagree with Sarkeesian, probably don't watch her videos, and definitely did not pledge her kickstarter always try and make this argument.  Judging by her kickstarter page, there are 12 videos up with 3 hours and 40 minutes of content.  She has produced plenty of content.  She made a pretty penny doing so.  There is nothing wrong with that, it is capitalism at work.  

 

Looking at the comments from backers, it looks like quite a few of them are happy.  The idea that her initial outline doesn't match up with what you feel was delivered is inconsequential, because that is generally accepted as the risk you run in any crowdfunding project.  

 

 

Well I can't speak for other people but as a proponent of Kickstarter and this new form of funding I have argued with detractors of the method, and they have commonly brought up the examples of all the Kickstarters that have not delivered, and the Kickstarters that have delivered far less content than they promised, as examples of why they do not use or agree with the practise. In other words this form of funding is being brought into disrepute by the bad apples, according to the outside opinion. Obviously I try to tell them that one should only back projects which are of assured quality and produced by reputable companies: Obsidian for instance has a history of delivering on draconian timescales, stability of the product notwithstanding and are known for this, thus why I felt assured giving them money.

 

I also make the argument that risk is inherent, though can be mitigated, that Saarkesian is of course the sock puppet of a fraud who is obviously using fashionable outrage and demonisation through cherry picking content to make disproved conspiracy theories, while Tim Schafer is a spendthrift who cannot be trusted financially, and neither of these should be trusted. They of course reply that Mr Schafer was massively overfunded and yet produced a game that would hardly pass as a demo a quarter of a century ago, while Ms Saarkesian is hardly faced with a momentous task making bog standard Youtube (no offense to Youtubers who make far more, better researched content without any crowdfunding at all) content, with other peoples art, an unresearched cherry picked speech rife with fallacies and no strenuous editing tricks used.

 

I cannot argue with this, they are right, there is no excuse for such poor showings on Kickstarter when Obsidian, Larian and even more so Logic Artists are producing such fine content in comparison. The investors who got taken may be happy with being shortchanged, that is their right and the exploitable will remain a constant among consumers, but from what i've seen this does harm to crowdfunding as an alternative means to the publishing method.


Edited by Nonek, 23 January 2016 - 09:17 AM.

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#35
Meshugger

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It makes perfect sense. You're not a true #GamerGater, the E-Celebs you hate for "co-opting" are. original.gif

 
There you go again, of course not. But it's alright, we all have our bad days, no need to push it. You're excused.

 

 
Yeah, I highly doubt you would see it. original.gif

 

 
Of course you're not making sense, you throw in things that had nothing to do with GG to begin with: Like Bethesda and Ubisoft are making **** games and are treating the employees badly, while a problem in itself it was not part of the scandal; how eCelebs are using their fanbase to ****post on youtube and finally you said that Hatred was made out pure politics by GamerGate while conveniently forgetting this game quite unknown outside of Postal-fans gor banned from Steam and GamerGate made sure that it was allowed back in. Quite simply you were angry that GamerGate wasn't what you wanted it to be and you had to vent for a bit, which is perfectly ok in itself.

 


No, you get it. I am talking about things that had nothing to do with GG. Because GG was about "we just want games to be about games". Except, all those things were all GG talked about. Ever. You yourself posted about nothing but identity politics and post-modernism and Noam Chomsky and Richard Dawkins in our "journalism in the game industry threads". #GamerGaters say they want people to keep politics out of games, but all evidence shows that they just want different politics in games.

 

 

Haha, that is my point. Gaming used to be the only refuge from all politics, it was that special place were you could have that childish dream-state of simply having fun. For each attack by society calling it satanic, violent and what not, the journalists and alike stepped up and said "No, it's just games, **** off". Well, until the SJWs moved in and made themselves as cultural vanguards of what gaming is.

 

The videos you are talking about are the testament to highlight how other faculties of life are having or have had the same war. For example, just look at what happened with Atheism+.


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#36
BruceVC

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https://video.search...e52&action=view

 

 

This is an interesting video, it is an interview with Anita on the Colburn report and for me it highlights the issues with her approach and what she said needed to change in gaming

 

I have to assume she meant well.....but how she went about it  :blink:



#37
Meshugger

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Speaking of Anita, she is quitting: https://archive.is/pZvPr

 

I wonder what her Kickstarter supporters think of her not living up to her original commitments?

 

Finally, you guys seems to be confused. eCelebs using GamerGate to instill their opinions about anything and saying it is abouth GG does not make it so. But hey, if that makes it feel better about sitting on your high horses of neutrality and talks about sides, then be my guest. In reality, there's only right and wrong and anti-GG is simply is that. Wrong.

 

It's quite simple really. Want games to be free from outside influence in terms of creativity? Want games to be critized and reviewed completely on their own merit? Want games not to be subjected to the politics of the day by arm-chair academics? Want games just to be games. Good, then you're pro-GamerGate, as that was all that the scandal was about. Outside idiots who hates games and thinking that they can decide what gaming should be about were outed and laughed out of the industry.

 

This little post describes it much better than i ever could, as the very same kind of people and ideas went into gaming: http://i.imgur.com/gFB0CQ8.png

No my friend unfortunately you are equally as culpable as the rest of us for the protracted and unnecessary GG campaign

 

But Geez that last  link is terrible, people still have NO idea what SJ is about...or rather I should say " SJ on the Internet"

 

I won't go  into too much detail but the initial question just highlights how misunderstood the role of SJ is...why would you ask people who you have clearly antagonized and associate the words  " SJW" as an immediate insult " why dont you like SJW " 

 

You dont look for vindication in SJ  campaigns ....you don't do it for that reason. And you can see from the responses those people also have a very negative view of SJ

 

 

That last link is the truth of the matter of the larger culture war, but you are free to hide from it or claim that it is false as much as you wish.   

 

Its not as intense as a " cultural war  " ...I would say its more an Internet clash of ideals, how widespread would this be in RL?

 

 

I am not going to debate what words mean with you again.

 

Why? Semantics do matter when it comes to the impact of certain things and how we should interpret them?

 

 

Because you make out your own definitions of words on the fly and refuse to abide by conventions made by the dictionary.

 

No I don't ?Can you give me an example....I will be surprised if you are right?

 

 

http://forums.obsidi...bomb/?p=1764625


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#38
BruceVC

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It makes perfect sense. You're not a true #GamerGater, the E-Celebs you hate for "co-opting" are. original.gif

 
There you go again, of course not. But it's alright, we all have our bad days, no need to push it. You're excused.

 

 
Yeah, I highly doubt you would see it. original.gif

 

 
Of course you're not making sense, you throw in things that had nothing to do with GG to begin with: Like Bethesda and Ubisoft are making **** games and are treating the employees badly, while a problem in itself it was not part of the scandal; how eCelebs are using their fanbase to ****post on youtube and finally you said that Hatred was made out pure politics by GamerGate while conveniently forgetting this game quite unknown outside of Postal-fans gor banned from Steam and GamerGate made sure that it was allowed back in. Quite simply you were angry that GamerGate wasn't what you wanted it to be and you had to vent for a bit, which is perfectly ok in itself.

 


No, you get it. I am talking about things that had nothing to do with GG. Because GG was about "we just want games to be about games". Except, all those things were all GG talked about. Ever. You yourself posted about nothing but identity politics and post-modernism and Noam Chomsky and Richard Dawkins in our "journalism in the game industry threads". #GamerGaters say they want people to keep politics out of games, but all evidence shows that they just want different politics in games.

 

 

Haha, that is my point. Gaming used to be the only refuge from all politics, it was that special place were you could have that childish dream-state of simply having fun. For each attack by society calling it satanic, violent and what not, the journalists and alike stepped up and said "No, it's just games, **** off". Well, until the SJWs moved in and made themselves as cultural vanguards of what gaming is.

 

The videos you are talking about are the testament to highlight how other faculties of life are having or have had the same war. For example, just look at what happened with Atheism+.

 

 But something like politics and SJ ideas can reach and influence basically all aspects of society. The issue is not "politics reached gaming " as this was inevitable but rather how people responded  



#39
BruceVC

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No I don't ?Can you give me an example....I will be surprised if you are right?

 

 

http://forums.obsidi...bomb/?p=1764625

 

Oh okay, I see the misunderstanding

 

I was actually frustrated that day because the fact NK is " sovereign "  state didn't change my point but yes your definition was correct 



#40
Hurlshot

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I cannot argue with this, they are right, there is no excuse for such poor showings on Kickstarter when Obsidian, Larian and even more so Logic Artists are producing such fine content in comparison. The investors who got taken may be happy with being shortchanged, that is their right and the exploitable will remain a constant among consumers, but from what i've seen this does harm to crowdfunding as an alternative means to the publishing method.


If the investors are happy with the product, how does that harm crowdfunding? You are also making a judgement about being shortchanged. That is your opinion, one that does not seem to be shared by those willing to invest in Sarkeesian. You can make that same argument for Obsidian. Would it not bother you if a bunch of people complained about PoE being too old school and story based? You are clearly not her audience, so why should your opinion matter when it comes to crowdfunding. I am not her audience either, I wouldnt waste my time or money on such stuff, but as a business strategy I see nothing wrong with her approach, and actually admire her success.

People make money off stupid stuff all the time. There is no fraud here.
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