Weak Companions

[Karkarov]

I just found out about this game and I'm using the pre-made companions for the added dialogue, atmosphere, whatever you want to call it. As for re-speccing them, that wouldn't really bother me too much either way because, as others have pointed out, the attributes are more or less impotent. That last part kind of bugs me though. To me a big part of what makes an rpg an rpg is being able to customize as many aspects of your character as possible(stats/perks/trees/items/etc)  in meaningful ways that make them unique from others. If anyone who plays a fighter is more or less the same at the end of the day despite the choices they've made in character progression then is it really any more of an rpg than every other game out there. Just my two cents I guess.

I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head.  You are 100% right, a big part of RPG's is being able to totally control and customize your characters.... but is Eder your character?  Nope, he isn't.  He is an NPC that just happens to be willing to join your fight and take orders from you.  The characters in the game that are your characters (the watcher, hired mercs from the inn) are your characters because you create them, you get to envision whatever backstory they have, you get to pick their race, sex, class, even name.  Etc etc.  All you get to decide about Eder is his leveling choices for level 2 and up.

[PrimeJunta]

@Karkarov that argument would make more sense if the companions were still like they were in 1.0 -- i.e., they leveled up automatically to match your level when you picked them up. Being able to level them up manually starting from L2 already breaks the illusion that they're characters with independent lives; it wouldn't break any further if we were allowed to pick their L1 abilities as well.

[KDubya]

I also would like to be able to change the level one pick.

 

Pellagrinna is stuck with FoD. It's a nice ability but LoH is hands down better. You can remedy it at level five but if she stared with LoH you could skip FoD and take a more supportive ability.

 

Zahua is stuck with Tormen't Reach. Again it is a great ability but it synergizes best with dual wielding due to its full attack. This hinders the builds in case you wanted to go weapon and shield or two handed, they still work but they are not optimized. Swift Strikes followed with Force of Anguish would lend itself to an awesome weapon and shield tank with really long knockdowns that are spammable.

 

Kana has been cited by others, phantom is just hands down better than skeletons.

 

These are the three that come to mind when I think about having the freedom of making the level one ability pick.

[Grossol the Grim]

 

I just found out about this game and I'm using the pre-made companions for the added dialogue, atmosphere, whatever you want to call it. As for re-speccing them, that wouldn't really bother me too much either way because, as others have pointed out, the attributes are more or less impotent. That last part kind of bugs me though. To me a big part of what makes an rpg an rpg is being able to customize as many aspects of your character as possible(stats/perks/trees/items/etc)  in meaningful ways that make them unique from others. If anyone who plays a fighter is more or less the same at the end of the day despite the choices they've made in character progression then is it really any more of an rpg than every other game out there. Just my two cents I guess.

I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head.  You are 100% right, a big part of RPG's is being able to totally control and customize your characters.... but is Eder your character?  Nope, he isn't.  He is an NPC that just happens to be willing to join your fight and take orders from you.  The characters in the game that are your characters (the watcher, hired mercs from the inn) are your characters because you create them, you get to envision whatever backstory they have, you get to pick their race, sex, class, even name.  Etc etc.  All you get to decide about Eder is his leveling choices for level 2 and up.

 

 

Yeah, I am well aware that Eder and the others are premade characters. I was trying to say that being able to re-spec their attributes wouldn't bother me *because* the impact it would have is moderate at best, negligible at worst. For instance, if you were to dump Eder's intellect it would not turn him into some drooling oaf in the game and the same goes for your own character. It wouldn't even prevent the casting of spells, or the disabling of traps, etc. On the other hand re-speccing the premade companions *would* bother me from a role-playing perspective had attributes and other character building choices been made less trivial. All that aside, I am really enjoying the game so far. 

[AndreaColombo]

@Karkarov that argument would make more sense if the companions were still like they were in 1.0 -- i.e., they leveled up automatically to match your level when you picked them up. Being able to level them up manually starting from L2 already breaks the illusion that they're characters with independent lives; it wouldn't break any further if we were allowed to pick their L1 abilities as well.

 

Gotta agree with this. Besides, the ability to level them up manually is an option—which is great, 'cause people who want to disable it and get the "characters with independent lives" vibe can do it—so I don't see how changing their 1st-level ability falls out of its scope. I'm neutral toward changing their attribute scores as they won't make a night-and-day difference. If I'm changing their every talent and ability, I might as well change their attributes. Or I could disable the option and change absolutely nothing.

[boffmoffet]

Eh, I have used all of the companions on POTD and even being lazy with my tactics found their stats to be sufficient in combat while effectively representing the written and implied strengths and weaknesses of their characters. The designers and writers seemed to put some real thought behind them, and not just "how can they be most effective" lazy thought. I have a hard time min maxing though, even on mercs. Every time I try to do it I think just how one sided and absurd the resulting character would be. I dont mind wasting 2 or 4 of my stat points to give my companions, pre-made or merc, the necessary "role play appropriate"  distribution. 

 

I am of course capable of seeing the other side of this argument, and I am glad repsecs were added for those who wanted them. Providing options is usually the best route in game design. If the masses want to create the video game equivalent of a whole team of Mary Sues, let them control characters stats. Just like all bad Mary Sue fiction, the authors will get their jollies and I can choose not to read it, or in this case, click that respec stats button.

Edited January 16, 2016 by boffmoffet

[Karkarov]

@Karkarov that argument would make more sense if the companions were still like they were in 1.0 -- i.e., they leveled up automatically to match your level when you picked them up. Being able to level them up manually starting from L2 already breaks the illusion that they're characters with independent lives; it wouldn't break any further if we were allowed to pick their L1 abilities as well.

I don't care about the level 1 skill personally, that said I am reffering more to their stats, race, name, background, you know all the stuff that matters to them as a character not a munchkin rating report.  One person says you could dump Eder's intelligence and it wouldn't effect him in game.  You are right, it wouldn't, but would he make any damn sense as a character if he had intelligence 3 and behaved like he does?  No he wouldn't.

[Grossol the Grim]

 

@Karkarov that argument would make more sense if the companions were still like they were in 1.0 -- i.e., they leveled up automatically to match your level when you picked them up. Being able to level them up manually starting from L2 already breaks the illusion that they're characters with independent lives; it wouldn't break any further if we were allowed to pick their L1 abilities as well.

I don't care about the level 1 skill personally, that said I am reffering more to their stats, race, name, background, you know all the stuff that matters to them as a character not a munchkin rating report.  One person says you could dump Eder's intelligence and it wouldn't effect him in game.  You are right, it wouldn't, but would he make any damn sense as a character if he had intelligence 3 and behaved like he does?  No he wouldn't.

 

 

That is exactly my point!

[PrimeJunta]

I don't care about the level 1 skill personally, that said I am reffering more to their stats, race, name, background, you know all the stuff that matters to them as a character not a munchkin rating report.  One person says you could dump Eder's intelligence and it wouldn't effect him in game.  You are right, it wouldn't, but would he make any damn sense as a character if he had intelligence 3 and behaved like he does?  No he wouldn't.

 

Yep, that's quite true, respeccing the stats would require further suspension of disbelief.

[Karkarov]

 

I don't care about the level 1 skill personally, that said I am reffering more to their stats, race, name, background, you know all the stuff that matters to them as a character not a munchkin rating report.  One person says you could dump Eder's intelligence and it wouldn't effect him in game.  You are right, it wouldn't, but would he make any damn sense as a character if he had intelligence 3 and behaved like he does?  No he wouldn't.

 

Yep, that's quite true, respeccing the stats would require further suspension of disbelief.

Well except for Grieving Mother, I could buy her with an int of 3

[tarasis]

I'm at level 5 (nearly 6) and thus far the only companion I don't have a handle on is Kana. I don't know if it's being a chanter, or just that Kana is fragile, but more often than not Kana bites the dust (trying to use as a tank along with Eder). Iirc I'm playing on normal for my first play through and combat rarely lasts long enough to make user of his chant spells. So o need someone else to fill that Tankie role, I can't as my PC is a cipher.

[evilcat]

I'm at level 5 (nearly 6) and thus far the only companion I don't have a handle on is Kana. I don't know if it's being a chanter, or just that Kana is fragile, but more often than not Kana bites the dust (trying to use as a tank along with Eder). Iirc I'm playing on normal for my first play through and combat rarely lasts long enough to make user of his chant spells. So o need someone else to fill that Tankie role, I can't as my PC is a cipher.

For Kana try:

Talents: Ancient Memory, Superior Defence, Weapon and Shield style, (Beloved spirits) (Cautious Attacks) (Bears Fort) (Deep Pockets)

Weapons: 1 rifle, 1 greatsword, warhammer + heavy shield

Chants: Harbringer of Doom + 4sec

Items: all the goodies like +9 deflection ring, or some + resolve, or belt with slash reduction

Kana should be enough on hard.

 

However at least before level 9 You can swap Kana for Pellegia, and Paladin could be a winner.

[tarasis]

Cheers evilcat I will try that out.

[PrimeJunta]

FWIW I've never had much luck with Kana either. Others here have had good tymes with chanters, but not me. It's a shame as I really like the way he's written and voice-acted.

 

I'm hoping the revamp the class is getting in 3.0 will help; I'll give it another shot at that time.

[KDubya]

I've had good luck on PotD with Kana using heavy armor and a pike with an arquebus alpha shot. With the rest of the team being 1-2 Monks and 1-2 Paladins, Devil w/ sabre & shield and Sagani or Grieving Mother with Stormcaller. With a melee heavy party his fire lash chant with the terrify enemy woven in makes for a nice group buff.

 

I tend to have five sturdy guys on the frontline with one ranged soft target. Using the Thayn's Reach pike it debuffs enemies to further help the team.

 

I'm happy with him poking and debuffing someone while adding a 25% fire lash to the whole team. Anything I get from an invocation is just gravy. When it gets tough being able to hit a huge cone for a ten second paralyze is great. Summoning two Ogres and having them team up with 2-4 Monk twins is just hilarious, all of which benefit from the chants and the Paladin auras.

 

Looking forward to the new 3.0 chanter.

[why]

I like Kana and he managed to stay on his feet pretty well on normal. I did use him as a front liner. On hard, I wanted to try different npcs, so I only used him for a short period. I might try him again PotD, but I want to finish all npc sidequests and, sadly, I never have a lot of time to play. I thought I'd have time this past week, but we bought a new car and at the same time I had to replace the rack and pinion and power steering pump on the wife's '91 Mustang. Real life is cramping my quality Kana time.

[crutchy]

Many thanks to everybody for your input. Learnt a lot.