gotjazz Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Do they stack? Because the phrase seems almost too nice to pass up but a lot of the weapons I use atm have burning lash already as a result of wildly enchating them before I knew how enchanting works :D (still had enough room to get the most important ones to exeptional though thank the gods) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) Yes, they do stack. Example from a playthrough of mine: paladin with Flames of Devotion (+50% burn)+ Intense Flames (+25%)+burning lash(+25%) + chant (+25%) gave me +125% burn damage on my FoD strikes. If you then use Scion of Flames you will reach +150% of burn damage. The chant not only applies to weapons by the way. It also adds +25% burn damage to spell damage for example. Or it used to... don't know if it still does. Edited December 19, 2015 by Boeroer 1 Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gs11 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) So talents which increase elemental dmg, also increase lash dmg from pure weapon attack or only in case of FoD, where skill give "full attack" effect? And second question: what Druid's Purge of Toxin does? which exactly skill/effects it's healing, please give some example? Edited February 9, 2016 by Gs11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 They also work on lashes. But they don't work with any DoT effect! No idea conc. Purge of Toxins. Never use that... Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaylon Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yes, they do stack. Example from a playthrough of mine: paladin with Flames of Devotion (+50% burn)+ Intense Flames (+25%)+burning lash(+25%) + chant (+25%) gave me +125% burn damage on my FoD strikes. If you then use Scion of Flames you will reach +150% of burn damage. The chant not only applies to weapons by the way. It also adds +25% burn damage to spell damage for example. Or it used to... don't know if it still does. They stack, but I'm not sure they're added. If I remember well each lash is treated separately vs DR/4 and the resulted damages are added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gs11 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) They also work on lashes. But they don't work with any DoT effect! No idea conc. Purge of Toxins. Never use that... We're taking about pure weapon attack, not from skills. So when I have sword with crush dmg+ fire lash dmg enchant, I'd have 25% fire dmg from crush dmg. Then I'd take scion of flame talent my result would be what? crush dmg+ fire lash dmg , so 25%+20% increased by scion of flame=45% of first primary crush dmg? So in Your opinion talents which increase elmental dmg, work on everything: skills/ lashes from pure weapon attack/skills which works as lasheses (FoD,Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr), not just with skills with DoT effect like Combusting Wounds, same as periodical skills such as Wicked Briars(assumig that this skill would have elemental dmg ofc)? Edited February 9, 2016 by Gs11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Yes, they do stack. Example from a playthrough of mine: paladin with Flames of Devotion (+50% burn)+ Intense Flames (+25%)+burning lash(+25%) + chant (+25%) gave me +125% burn damage on my FoD strikes. If you then use Scion of Flames you will reach +150% of burn damage. The chant not only applies to weapons by the way. It also adds +25% burn damage to spell damage for example. Or it used to... don't know if it still does. They stack, but I'm not sure they're added. If I remember well each lash is treated separately vs DR/4 and the resulted damages are added.Last time I looked up the combat log it said "and xy burn damage" only once. Also the damage numbers where so that I doubt that more than 100% DR got subtracted. If you use Firebrand you will get a message like "x burn damage and y burn damage". Then DR gets subtracted twice. So I think that lashes add up. I have no proof though. Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) They also work on lashes. But they don't work with any DoT effect! No idea conc. Purge of Toxins. Never use that... We're taking about pure weapon attack, not from skills. So when I have sword with crush dmg+ fire lash dmg enchant, I'd have 25% fire dmg from crush dmg. Then I'd take scion of flame talent my result would be what? crush dmg+ fire lash dmg , so 25%+20% increased by scion of flame=45% of first primary crush dmg? So in Your opinion talents which increase elmental dmg, work on everything: skills/ lashes from pure weapon attack/skills which works as lasheses (FoD,Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr), not just with skills with DoT effect like Combusting Wounds, same as periodical skills such as Wicked Briars(assumig that this skill would have elemental dmg ofc)? No. If you deal 100 damage then it's +25 with the lash. Then Scion of Flame adds 20% of that 25. So it's 100 + 25 + (25*0.2 = 5). So with Scion you will have a +30% lash instead of a 25%. Also doesn't work with The Dragon Thrashed for example. Edited February 10, 2016 by Boeroer Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Yes, they do stack. Example from a playthrough of mine: paladin with Flames of Devotion (+50% burn)+ Intense Flames (+25%)+burning lash(+25%) + chant (+25%) gave me +125% burn damage on my FoD strikes. If you then use Scion of Flames you will reach +150% of burn damage. The chant not only applies to weapons by the way. It also adds +25% burn damage to spell damage for example. Or it used to... don't know if it still does. They stack, but I'm not sure they're added. If I remember well each lash is treated separately vs DR/4 and the resulted damages are added. I tested this too and I agree with Kaylon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Not my experience with a FoD paladin - but I didn't do reverse engineering so I might be wrong. But I might be right again if we talk about foes with 0 DR. Edited February 10, 2016 by Boeroer Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) FoD is +50% damages against 25% dr. That's why it is huge (and can be misleading). Also, in the logs, lash damages of the same type are displayed as a sum, even if calculated separately. Edited February 10, 2016 by Elric Galad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaylon Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 In your case you would have 150% dmg vs .75DR (3 lashes) instead of .25DR. The damage will still be great but vs foes with high fire DR you feel the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Ah ok. But It doesn't make a lot of a difference to be honest if the fire DR is not superduperhigh. Of course against drakes and the like it will not be optimal, but I guess you can work around that. It's not the best idea to attack fire resistant foes with burn attacks anyways. Edited February 10, 2016 by Boeroer Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gs11 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 They also work on lashes. But they don't work with any DoT effect! Talents with elemental dmg improvment don't work with all skills/spells(wizar,priest,druid) with DoT effect or You ment certain chants like The Dragon Thrashed ? And for confirmation: scion of flame etc. would increase pure lash dmg from weapon attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 And for confirmation: scion of flame etc. would increase pure lash dmg from weapon attack? Yes. It would add 20% of whatever the lash damage was. "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Talents with elemental damage improvement don't work on any DoT effect. Let it be it a wizard's or a druid's spell or a barbarian's fart. And yes, Scion of Flame increases the burning lash damage that you can put on your weapon. It raises the lash damage fom 25% to 30% (25%*1.2). So for this purpose alone it's not worth it. If you also use the lash chant on top of that then it raises your overall burn damage from 50% to 60% (or to be precise: two times 30% instead of two times 25%). That's better. In 2.03 Scion of Flame did not work with the base damage of Firebrand which is burn only. Same with Spirit of Decay/Bittercut's corrode damage and Heart of the Storm/Stormcaller's shock damage. Maybe they fixed that in 3.0. It was in the bug database. Edited February 10, 2016 by Boeroer Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gs11 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 ok thx a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Talents with elemental damage improvement don't work on any DoT effect. Let it be it a wizard's or a druid's spell or a barbarian's fart. And yes, Scion of Flame increases the burning lash damage that you can put on your weapon. It raises the lash damage fom 25% to 30% (25%*1.2). So for this purpose alone it's not worth it. If you also use the lash chant on top of that then it raises your overall burn damage from 50% to 60% (or to be precise: two times 30% instead of two times 25%). That's better. In 2.03 Scion of Flame did not work with the base damage of Firebrand which is burn only. Same with Spirit of Decay/Bittercut's corrode damage and Heart of the Storm/Stormcaller's shock damage. Maybe they fixed that in 3.0. It was in the bug database. That is really important for paladin. For the price of a talent, you get +10% for FoD, +5% for fire lash, +5% for fire damage chant, 5DR against fire, +20% immolation damage. You could also benefit from +20% damages from Wrath of the Five Sun (Pallegina) and +20% Batteforged damage (fire godlike). It also works with various scrolls and items. Also, for druids, it is important to choose wildstrike according to the talent you plan to takes. I even wonder if it can worth it with turning wheels monks. Fire godlike monk with a chanter teammate maybe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) ^ imho it's worth it for monks that take The Dichotomous Soul too (elemental talents apply to the twins' damage.) Edited February 10, 2016 by AndreaColombo "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Do elemental talents apply to summons ? Blights ? Drakes ? Ghosts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorad Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Yes, they do stack. Example from a playthrough of mine: paladin with Flames of Devotion (+50% burn)+ Intense Flames (+25%)+burning lash(+25%) + chant (+25%) gave me +125% burn damage on my FoD strikes. If you then use Scion of Flames you will reach +150% of burn damage. The chant not only applies to weapons by the way. It also adds +25% burn damage to spell damage for example. Or it used to... don't know if it still does. It does still add on direct damage spells also on spells that cause "direct" damage over time like chill fog but not on the usual dot like the druids spells. I have always wondered however if it's better to use double "Dragon thrashed" or Dragon + Lash chant... I wonder if anyone got any insight on that... (hinting at Boeroer ) Edited February 10, 2016 by Vorad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gs11 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Pls explain me this also: e.g I have druid in spiritshifted form with wildstrike shock(30% weapon dmg as shock dmg)+greater wildstrike shock(15%)+heart of storm(20%). I give 50 dmg from pure attack and then: -50 dmg *(30%+15%+20%)=50*0.65=32.5 shock dmg so 50+32.5= 82.5 overall dmg output or -50 dmg*(30+15)*0.2=(50*0.45)*0.2=22.2*0.2=4.5 so 22.5+4.5=27 schock dmg so overall 50 pure dmg+28shock dmg = 77 dmg output which version is correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Neither Second version is the closest, but you need to multiply by 1.2 (not 0.2) for Heart of the Storm. Would be a pretty crappy talent otherwise "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 No, I think it's because the duplicates inherit all your talents. Summons don't have that. 1 Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Galad Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Neither Second version is the closest, but you need to multiply by 1.2 (not 0.2) for Heart of the Storm. Would be a pretty crappy talent otherwise Read again. The second calculation is actually 1.2. It is right. But the way it is written is a bit confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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