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What part of RTWP isn't good exactly?

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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I guess i'm the only one who likes both TB and RTWP.

 

Imho TB feels better on games with a specific and different tactical layer for combat parts (a la X-com\King bounty\Age of wonders) while RTWP is better on unique layers for the whole game (like IE games and POE). 

 

I remember only Temple of Elemental Evil being TB on a single layer

Edited by Mazisky
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Imho RTWP is the best of two worlds.

TB is often too slow and gets me bored before combat is over; RT requires high APM which is only attainable if you put in several hours or practice (which is not the same as playing/enjoying.) RTWP plays fast while eliminating the need for high APM, so it's a win-win in my book.

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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we prefer tb for games with a large dose of squad-based tactical combat, games such as poe.  'course, if one is gonna come up with a short list o' defining qualities o' the ie games, rtwp is gonna be on the list (just as d&d rules inspired hard counters and per kill xp would not be on such a list.)  try and make a game that appeals to those folks who played and loved such games as bg2 and iwd without rtwp would be an odd choice even if it would be one Gromnir would prefer in a game with so much squaddie tactical combat.  similarly, if espoused goal is to increase options for player customization, we see no need for classes, which is inherently limiting.  but to do a kickstarter such as poe and make classless would be a head scratcher o' a choice.  

 

obsidian did an admirable job with poe rtwp and classes in spite o' the fact that our ideal crpg would include neither as a feature.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I remember only Temple of Elemental Evil being TB on a single layer

Jagged Alliance 2 combined RT and TB systems seamlessly. Well... Sort of seamlessly. Wasteland 2. Fallout. There's actually quite a few of those.

 

 

How did i forget Ja2, i've spent so many hours on it!!!! 

 

But it had almost no melee combat and it was all based on long range fights and building covers positioning (hide and fight back), so TB "slowness" felt appropriate

Edited by Mazisky
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This game doesn't need story mode, it just needs combat damage to stop being nerfed.  RTwP combat isn't that good to begin with and making it last longer by nerfing combat damage was just dumb.

 

Some people, myself included, like RTwP very much, and whilst I have no particular desire to see very long combats, I would prefer them to be long enough and tough enough that I can actually make use of spells and abilities. There's already a problem with Chanters hardly being able to use their invocations on easier difficulties, faster combats would just extend that to harder difficulties and make other classes unable to use multiple in combat buffs.

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I feel TB is really jarring for power-fantasy type games. It made sense for Fallout because it was a brutal post-apocalyptic verisimilitudey world where a bad turn vs. an SMG would kill you outright but I don't understand why Inxile would map that onto a Planescape sequel for any reason other than that they already have the tech...

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I guess i'm the only one who likes both TB and RTWP.

I like both too, but PE is the worst RTWP I've played since DA:O. Not sure which I hate more.

 

Good RTWP - Infinity Engine games, 7.62mm High Caliber, Aarklash Legacy. I remember the original Dungeon Siege being ~okayish~ but it's been so long that I don't remember.

 

Obsidian devs are pretty much all TB/Tabletop fans and it shows in how they approach the design of things. They really should be making TB games instead IMO, but here we are.

Edited by Sensuki
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I like both too, but PE is the worst RTWP I've played

 

 

A sentiment you most likely hold, or at least publicly proclaim, due to the fact that you spend more time making bitter posts than you do actually playing a game.

 

PoE is one of the best RTWP games on the market, and for a noteworthy list of RTWP games:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealTimeWithPause

 

Keep in mind that even Rollercoaster Tycoon counts as a RTWP game lol.

 

If we look at all the RTWP games on the market, PoE is clearly a top contender.

Edited by Zenbane
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PoE is one of the best RTWP games on the market, and for a noteworthy list of RTWP games:

That list is wrong. RTWP as a category refers to the ability to pause and issue commands to your party members while the game is paused. That list just includes real time games that allow you to pause the game.

 

When the game is paused in Age of Empires 2, you can't issue commands. No one can do anything until the game is unpaused. It's not an RTWP game. It's a real-time game.

 

Apparently FTL RTWP is also very good, but I haven't played it.

 

PoE is one of the best RTWP games on the market

The combat is not good. Its only saving grace is that it uses an RTS control scheme and fixed axonometric camera, making it enjoyable to interact with when compared to some of the other horrible implementations in the past. Actual combat is quite bad and the higher player input does not correspond to an increased amount of active decision making by the player.

 

The character system is 'fun', as in there's a lot of choice and you can make any character you like and it's viable in the game but the actual combat gameplay is inferior to the IE games (BGs and IWDs anyway), 7.62mm or Aarklash IMO.

Edited by Sensuki
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Why are you here, Sensuki?

you ever see the play/movie amadeus?  sensuki contributed much effort and made many suggestions pre-release.  most such suggestions were ignored.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I remember a lot of whining.

 

Could be his suggestions were "ignored" (as though he had some authority over the project. HA! Good Fun!) because they had little to do with the game they were making. Just a thought.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I remember a lot of whining.

 

Could be his suggestions were "ignored" (as though he had some authority over the project. HA! Good Fun!) because they had little to do with the game they were making. Just a thought.

his contributions related to the game were excellent (for the most part) and his efforts should be applauded.  is too bad he couldn't accept that his contributions made the game better even if obsidian did not always agree with his suggestions.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Other than the removal of Melee Engagement or Movement Recovery Slow (which were both implemented in the IE mod BEFORE the game was released), what suggestions did I make that were 'ignored' that would have made any difference to the non-reactive, hardly tactical rote combat gameplay?

 

I can't think of any, that's not something I'm bitter about. Just disappointed at how the combat (and the story/plot) turned out.

 

We were able to do about 90% of the UI changes I wanted in the IE mod as well - blue circles for NPCs, always show circles, classic tooltip style, classic TAB functions, Karkarov made a beautiful solid HUD and Bester made it modular to support a wide variety of preferences in layout and portrait, button types.

 

I had some concerns about the combat in the beta but I was basically told that my experience was based on a small level range against underwhelming combat encounters and that the full game would be better, so I went in hopeful. Unfortunately the problems only amplified with the full game, which was quite disheartening.

Edited by Sensuki
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Of course, all blacksmiths would go bankrupt after PC has sold him 3.000 halberds he'll never manage to resell.

PC's pocket would become the basis of a country's economy as opposed to gold stockpile.

All mints would get closed. Banks would borrow money from PC. Debt do PC would constantly rise until all countries on Eora would be deep in debt. Economy would collapse. Money would no longer have any meaning.

 

 

Absolutely, the ultimate step. Reactive economy; much sophistication.  :sorcerer: However, one step at a time, that's too much pressure on Obsi.

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Other than the removal of Melee Engagement or Movement Recovery Slow (which were both implemented in the IE mod BEFORE the game was released), what suggestions did I make that were 'ignored' that would have made any difference to the non-reactive, hardly tactical rote combat gameplay?

 

I can't think of any, that's not something I'm bitter about. Just disappointed at how the combat (and the story/plot) turned out.

that is kinda the point.  most of your suggestions would not have made a real difference, but you did complain.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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that is kinda the point.  most of your suggestions would not have made a real difference, but you did complain.

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make.

 

if you say so.  regardless, you made many suggestions regarding issues such as ability points and hard counters and xp awards, no?  is a great many instances in which obsidian went a different direction, and even when the direction obsidian went were a relative minor change, you took... poorly.  and so we end up with the sensuki we got today.  

 

http://forums.somethingawful.com/query.php?action=posthistory&userid=17931

 

 

http://forums.somethingawful.com/query.php?action=posthistory&userid=194732

 

is actual amusing how many factual corrections o' sensuki posts josh made over at the SA boards.

 

still, is too bad as you were making a real contribution til your pride (or whatever) git hurt.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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if you say so.  regardless, you made many suggestions regarding issues such as ability points and hard counters and xp awards, no?  is a great many instances in which obsidian went a different direction, and even when the direction obsidian went were a relative minor change, you took... poorly.  and so we end up with the sensuki we got today.

The current attribute system has exactly the same layout as the one Matt and I proposed in October last year.

 

I don't recall making any specific suggestion to implement hard counters because I know that it would have been a futile effort.

 

I was against XP for traps and locks (I don't think there's anyone here that will disagree that they were only haphazardly implemented to shut the people up who were complaining about them on the forums) but that's not a big deal at all. How experience is payed out is pretty inconsequential to the things the player does in combat.

 

So I'm not exactly sure about what different direction you're referring to at least with those three examples.

 

is actual amusing how many factual corrections o' sensuki posts josh made over at the SA boards.

 

You've mentioned this a few times, but you don't list any specific examples (likely due to laziness). Most of the factual corrections were because Obsidian had changed the mechanics of how something worked.

 

still, is too bad as you were making a real contribution til your pride (or whatever) git hurt.

 

No, you just have a personal issue with me, and codexers in general. It seems you're not immune to prejudice either.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82713-age-of-decadence-launched/?view=findpost&p=1741297

 

Nah, 99% of the time I just ignore you, so the last thing I'm going to do is trawl through pages of you following Sensuki around from thread to thread or whatever. Much as 99% of the time if there's a game I don't like I ignore it rather than wandering in to (not so) randomly diss it.

Just thought people who weren't aware of your background and chip on shoulder with respect to the Codex/ VD etc needed to know where you were coming from.

Edited by Sensuki
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This game doesn't need story mode, it just needs combat damage to stop being nerfed.  RTwP combat isn't that good to begin with and making it last longer by nerfing combat damage was just dumb.

 

Some people, myself included, like RTwP very much, and whilst I have no particular desire to see very long combats, I would prefer them to be long enough and tough enough that I can actually make use of spells and abilities. There's already a problem with Chanters hardly being able to use their invocations on easier difficulties, faster combats would just extend that to harder difficulties and make other classes unable to use multiple in combat buffs.

 

Yeah, I like RTwP too. That's why, you know, I bought the game in the first place? Got to know PoE from D:OS which is incidentally a sTBRPG. At this point I find PoE is more entertaining than D:OS. But I like both.

 

Story Mode will suit the original poster most likely.

Edited by mosspit
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That list is wrong.

 

No that list is very much correct; you just need to argue against it because your attempts to portray PoE as the "worst RTWP ever" suddenly falls apart. You are trying to define "RTWP" in such a narrow way that it serves your purpose. It's not hard to see through this type of ruse, it's quite common especially on gaming forums.

 

Vastly important game decisions in the list of Titles in this article are made during a Pause:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealTimeWithPause

 

Just because some of those games don't involve a fantasy character executing an attack doesn't mean that an otherwise real-time game isn't implementing critical decision making during a literal Pause. I personally feel that PoE will continue to break new ground (and yes, it has already broken ground as a successful RPG stemming from Kickstarter with over half a million copies sold).

 

Anyone who has spent more time complaining about a game than actually playing the game really should find a new (healthier) hobby.

 

 

 

 

Nah, 99% of the time I just ignore you, so the last thing I'm going to do is trawl through pages of you following Sensuki around from thread to thread or whatever. Much as 99% of the time if there's a game I don't like I ignore it rather than wandering in to (not so) randomly diss it.

Just thought people who weren't aware of your background and chip on shoulder with respect to the Codex/ VD etc needed to know where you were coming from.

 

It's very common for a cheerleader to make these type of "follow around" claims on Forums. It's cute, but it blatantly ignores the fact that the troll (in this case, Sensuki), is posting the same thing everywhere all the time. So unless someone leaves the forum, if they respond to the troll then one of the troll's cheerleaders will be like, "why you following us around, bro?" lol

Edited by Zenbane
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