Fallout 4 is coming soon.. is there a new OB Fallout Scheduled?

[Majek]

Bah mainland Europe always trumps England.

[Lexx]

 

Well, the original Fallouts are pretty much done.

Pretty sure the original Fallouts have been dead since 2004 when "Brotherhood of Steel" came out.

 

More like when Van Buren was canned. Still, doesn't change my point.

[Gizmo]

It does not seem likely that Obsidian and Bethesda will work together again.  While I do not think there is any bad blood between them...

But there should be.

[Amentep]

 

 

Well, the original Fallouts are pretty much done.

Pretty sure the original Fallouts have been dead since 2004 when "Brotherhood of Steel" came out.

 

More like when Van Buren was canned. Still, doesn't change my point.

 

BoS was the first game to move away from the isometric format of 1, 2 and Tactics. VB would have also. BoS also was a bigger departure from the canon than Tactics (although VB would have probably skewed closer but honestly wasn't it too little, too late by that point?)

 

Anyhow my point is that the original Fallouts - design and canon - have been by the wayside for over a decade.  Bemoaning that fact now is kind of pointless, IMO, as they weren't going to come back after Iplay shut down.

[Lexx]

Hint: It's not about the games perspective. Also Tactics was always marked as a spin-off and never as Fallout 3 or similar (as was BoS, by the way).

Edited November 4, 2015 by Lexx

[Amentep]

Sure, wasn't trying to say that they were the "series proper" (despite the...er...high spiritedness that happened on the Iplay boards after BoS was announced that made it seem like everyone thought it was Fallout 3).

 

But again, my point is that they started to change what Fallout was; even going back with Van Buren had it been completed would have been a different beast than Fallout 1 & 2.

[Longknife]

 

Fallout as a franchise is dead in the water...

 

Yeah, that's about as far as I got before my BS meter went full blast. Thanks for invalidating your post early on so I didn't have to read it all!

 

You could also bother reading what I wrote and, if you don't care to check spoilers, I promise you the footage shown thusfar is pretty lackluster.

 

 

Lemme level a second: I was pessimistic about Fallout 4. I expected poor RPG mechanics, terrible storytelling and crippled dialog. All of that seems to be coming true. What I did NOT expect, is terrible AI, robotic, wonky NPC animations and terrible lip-synching. The stuff I expected is stuff Bethesda has a history of, the latter points are things they've generally been ok with. Sure, I can hear people being cynical and saying the NPC animations were always strange or robotic, but let me just say that even if you feel that way, imagine it even worse now, is the point. The lip-synching has to be the weirdest of the bunch, given that they'd never had any real issues with the lip-synch program before, but now I struggle to find a cutscene without the lips feeling off somehow. Especially odd considering this didn't occur in any preview footage Bethesda put forward, so it's like they purposefully hand-picked the parts it ran smoothly at? Logical, but it'd be more logical to just fix the problem entirely, no? I mean there's PROGRAMS for lip-synching, it's not like it's the hardest most tedious work in the development industry; the tedious parts have long been ironed out. Very odd and I'm not sure how something like this happens. As for the wonky animations....Anyone happen to know AlChestBreach and his off-and-on companion Gully, the feral ghoul? Feral ghouls in New Vegas have an idle animation where they start twitching about like crazy, which Al always likened to Gully having a seizure. I **** you not, I saw a conversation where a Brotherhood initiate NPC basically did the same thing mid conversation in FO4. It was the weirdest, most surreal thing, cause you just get stuck thinking "wtf was that!" as they game moves on like nothing happened. I mean this isn't even a bug, this is something Bethesda conciously left in for...some reason.

 

  Bethesda has said before that they're not afraid to "make Fallout our own franchise," and based on the footage I've seen, this is not the Fallout we all know. They are indeed transitioning into a new brand of Fallout that's quite different from the old. All footage I've seen looks far more first-person shooter in style than RPG, and the vast majority of enemies (and companions) are super slow to respond and just kinda stand there and take it as they get shot, while the overall number of enemies seems low and easymode too (worst offender was a clip where there was probably one enemy per two rooms). Another clip shows Dogmeat being lit on fire as he stands there normally, still yet to have reacted to the combat around him.

 

 

 

  I'm telling you now, if you've enjoyed past Fallouts, do not go into FO4 expecting more Fallout, cause thusfar this doesn't really look much like it except for obvious things like factions and lore being shared. (which based on leaks, there's not enough to say how intact or not intact that is, though I doubt there's been any dramatic shifts in lore....aside from cats no longer being extinct, from what I've heard)

Edited November 4, 2015 by Longknife

[HoonDing]

It's gonna be awesome.

[Amentep]

Longknife - how reliable are the sources for the screenshots and video footage you've seen?  Because as you say the stuff from Bethesda hasn't looked all that bad, but I've heard of leaks and how people describe them but I'm not sure how reliable they are (ie are we really seeing the release version of the game or is it some early version?  Is it something that's been doctored by an anti-Bethesda-ite or general troll trying to troll an audience that is hotly anticipating the game?)

Edited November 4, 2015 by Amentep

[HoonDing]

Why bother. Haters gonna hate.

[Amentep]

Mostly curious.  I'm getting the game regardless of what the internet thinks. 

[Longknife]

Longknife - how reliable are the sources for the screenshots and video footage you've seen?  Because as you say the stuff from Bethesda hasn't looked all that bad, but I've heard of leaks and how people describe them but I'm not sure how reliable they are (ie are we really seeing the release version of the game or is it some early version?  Is it something that's been doctored by an anti-Bethesda-ite or general troll trying to troll an audience that is hotly anticipating the game?)

 

 

If you haven't heard, and this is kinda hilarous:

 

Some guy's Xbox broke and was defective. He went to Best Buy to get a new one, they were completely out EXCEPT for the Xbox-Fallout 4 bundle packs and gave him one. The guy isn't even a hardcore Fallout fan (people have been complaining he sucks at the game), but quickly realized he had a long awaited game and has been releasing a steady supply of vids while saying "follow me on soundcloud for more." Of all leak stories I've heard, this one wins the award for being most hilarious.

 

All leaks I've encountered I got by hunting around in reddits, not a bias group. If anything they'd be bias in favor, as in the past I've been downvoted to oblivion for providing any critical points about the game. Hell even now I got word the ending was leaked, I asked if anyone could point me to it, and I got downvoted to hell when someone asked why I'd want to spoil it for myself before it's release and I answered I didn't pre-order.

 

The vast majority have been that Best Buy guy recording the game with potato-quality phone cameras, though recently I've seen his videos re-uploaded in HD as if he figured out the problem or whatever. Alongside him there's a couple other leakers, including some spanish guy, a recent streamer who started yesterday, and one other guy who had a similar story with a friend at Walmart handing him an early copy.

 

 

But I would say my criticisms stand despite potato quality. What's stood out to me is the way enemies act, the way Dogmeat acts, and the strange animations you might encounter during dialog. Enemies seem pretty brain dead, companion AI seems pretty rusty (also if you remember Rex blocking doorways in New Vegas, you'll be "happy" to know I caught a small glimpse of that too), and cutscenes have either had wonky lipsynching OR the lipsynching has been decent while something ELSE happens that feels off.

 

 

If you want a small window of what I mean by strange NPC animations or movements, I think this small clip sums up most clips I've seen quite well (obviously click at your own spoiler risk, but given how I have no context for how important this small snippet of convo is, I wouldn't consider it a strong spoiler): https://embed.gyazo.com/f1d89d75fb3c61823e81a440e4f3423e.mp4

 

In MOST clips I've seen, the awkwardness occurs between the player and the person I'm talking to, so that one is an anomaly. Likewise, that specific clip? I think we've all seen NPCs walking into walls and the like in a Bethesda game. Still, I link it because your reaction to the guy in the back is pretty much akin to the reaction I've felt at some point in all the clips I've seen; the reaction you feel to seeing that is pretty much the reaction I've had to most clips. I've probably seen 4 conversation clips, in which two have had me thinking "lipsynching feels a bit off" and the other two have had fine lip-synching but had some kind of "wtf!!" moment.

 

 

Obviously this is just one small portion of a big game with lots of aspects to it, it's just I was genuinely very surprised to see this, as lip-synching and terrible animations have typically never been a problem. I've heard people complain Bethesda's characters lacked animation and made them seem robotic, sure, but now they have animations and the implementation of said animations seems pretty off.

 

Overall from what I've seen, I just don't see much RPG gameplay, but I see tons of first-person shooter elements. It looks incredibly easy too; I've not seen, but supposedly stimpacks are decently common and even someone with no stim perks can expect 40% of HP healed per stimpack at no time delay beyond a brief, half-second animation of the character sticking it in his arm, and the animation doesn't even seem to repeat if you find yourself spamming them.

[Longknife]

Oh and of course, do not expect much from the story, but I think we already all knew that well in advance and didn't have hopes up in that regard. I'm focused more on the AI and such simply because I honestly didn't expect it.

[Amentep]

Thanks for the link, I'm not sure it spoils anything. 

 

Still not sure what to make of it as I can't get sound out of it to see what the vocal unsinking is like or not (but the guy in the background is hilarious regardless).

 

Weirdly most Bethesda games the story is irrelevant to me, the fun is just wandering around the countryside until I get bored, and rarely do I get bored as there's something always over the next hill (until you reach the edge of game space).

[Longknife]

Thanks for the link, I'm not sure it spoils anything. 

 

Still not sure what to make of it as I can't get sound out of it to see what the vocal unsinking is like or not (but the guy in the background is hilarious regardless).

 

Weirdly most Bethesda games the story is irrelevant to me, the fun is just wandering around the countryside until I get bored, and rarely do I get bored as there's something always over the next hill (until you reach the edge of game space).

 

 

Yeah sorry, if you wanted spoilers or more footage I would link, but it seems Bethesda really cracked down on the leaks. They were getting posted to sights like Insagram and Vimeo to avoid copyright takedowns like on youtube, but now even those are gone. Even one of the subreddits has agreed to ban any leaks, and from what I hear some guy streamed the game for 8 hours yesterday, it got uploaded to google drive, ALREADY taken down and now people are trying to reupload it. Pretty crazy how aggressive Bethesda is with these leaks, seeing as how they're all over the place and on some pretty obscure websites now.

 

 

  Strangely, if you want some leaked footage, currently the only stuff up is on Youtube, and I doubt that stays long. The clips available though do have some beginning game spoilers and are mostly devoid of conversation. Only good they would do if I showed you is you would be able to determine for yourself if you feel I'm right when I say "this game is far more first-person shooter than RPG" or not.

[Amentep]

Yeah, I'm not interested in spoilers really, so been avoiding the leaks (although if it is FPSy and not RPGy, not sure it'll matter that much!)

[Longknife]

Oh here.

 

Just for the giggles, the fact someone made this video proves I'm not making it up when I said some footage features Dogmeat just not giving a damn or reacting when he gets lit on fire:

 

[Gfted1]

We put Fallout 4’s mobile Pip-Boy companion app through its paces.

[Cantousent]

I'm not going to pre-order or even get Fallout 4 when it first hits the shelves, but I simply don't trust the vids we've seen so far. Maybe the complaints are true, but the fact that so many people are willing to lie and misrepresent the truth in order to further crazy assed campaigns against gaming companies makes me suspicious these days. If it weren't for the fact that I just plain don't have the time to play right now, I would go buy a copy just to thumb my nose at the whole bunch of 'em!

[Monte Carlo]

 

The obvious solution is for Obsidian to create their own PA CRPG, in much the same way Pillars analogues the Infinity Engine games. Just don't let JES design the combat mechanics and we're all good.

am having difficulty coming up with a more desirable option than sawyerxcain for combat mechanics in a crpg.  perhaps you are a fan o' vd's aod approach to combat mechanics?

 

 

 

 

Glad you enjoyed the combat, Grom. Personally, I've had more fun in a dentist's chair than I had playing PoE's combat but obviously your milage varied.

[mkreku]

By the way, it's easy to forget that Fallout 3 came out in 2008. That's 7 years ago (crap, I'm old)!

 

Things DID change:

 

[WDeranged]

Before bed I noticed the game had started pre-loading and for some reason I dozily clicked on the hub page.  I should have known that there'd be HUGE SPOILERS IN BLOCK CAPS but so it goes...it probably won't affect my enjoyment very much, it's just the fact that it one way or another it always freaking happens 

[stiven]

By the way, it's easy to forget that Fallout 3 came out in 2008. That's 7 years ago (crap, I'm old)!

 

Things DID change:

 

Yeah, texture resolution of dirt in F4 is lowest than in F3. But grass is same.

Edited November 7, 2015 by stiven

[Hurlshort]

I'm just glad they figured out how to match up eye colors.

[Longknife]

I'm just glad they figured out how to match up eye colors.

 

I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be "cool." Half the ORIGINAL CHARACTERS DO NOT STEEL out there on the internet have mismatching eye colors "cuz kewl."

 

 

Also, just because I feel "responsible" for casting doubt about lip-synching and Dogmeat's AI, this came up on reddit and seems relevant; it's another guy summing up his first six hours and he specifically mentioned Dogmeat and answered a question about lip-synching:

 

 

 

1. Dogmeat is a cutie but his A.I. is... really something. I already lost him about five times and even had to reload my save from about an hour before. Only send him to a settlement if you are already there or he will probably get lost. You can put a bandana and goggles on him, much like the concept art, and he does tricks if you ask him (well actually just one). He also lays down after a while when you tell him to wait and he actually stays close to you when you sneak. He also doesn't attack first while sneaking which is awesome

 

 

And then when someone asked "how's the character animation overall:"

 

 

They are pretty nice, but still bethesda-like sub-par to newer games. Also some of the characters have quite a lot of problems with 'rough' terrain, especially dogmeat. He gets stuck on stairs abd rocks and his patj finding is pretty horrible, I just keep losing him because he takes a way five times as long. He also falls off of stuff quite a lot. The lip-sinc isn't as bad as I thought, but you can definitely see they didn't motion-capture.

 

 

Source is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/3ryz1h/some_thoughts_about_my_first_six_hours_ingame/

 

Overall the lip-synching sounds like perhaps people just saw bad clips, though Dogmeat does seem to legit be "hurrrr I'm on fire hurrrr." In a way it's no surprise; in both FO3 and New Vegas they couldn't really figure out where to center Dogmeat and Rex's "position," which resulted in them blocking doors and stuff (did see FO4's Dogmeat doing this again in one clip) and at times they would run some weird stretches. That seems to be par for the course. Wasn't trying to scare anyone off or something, merely warn about newer problems I've seen in spoilers, but most of them seem to be hit-and-miss sans Dogmeat being derp, which isn't a huge loss.

 

 

Is motion-capture what they used in past titles? I simply recall never really having issues with the lip-synching in any of their past games, now suddenly it seems off here and there, so it's obvious they changed methods, just dunno from what to what.