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Meh, not that Fatigue from exploration was a problem, a huge thing in the game or anything but it just feels like one of those things that makes sense. Not sure why they would want to remove that even with these changes.

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It was hard to justify high Athletics characters because you were forced to rest based on your "flimsier" party members. Looks like this will take Athletics out of the "invest enough points to pass the scripted interaction checks" category and make it a useful skill. 

 

EDIT: Super curious if new Survival bonuses are passed on to Ranger pets. 

Edited by Achilles
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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I like the fatigue change for my found-supplies-only rest runs. Doing things like Bounty's or running back to do defend the Keep was murder on my supplies. Not sure a 'Second Wind' ability sounds very useful for new athletics, healing isn't that great in this game, but it's something to dump skill points into if not using lore or being a mechanic monkey.

 

Of course, that's after Survival, which looks like the new stat to pump. The old mandatory 3 Athletics looks to move now to 3 Survival, just to get everyone a speed boost. Not that I ever use kiting strategies, but this should make it easier, if folks are having trouble with stuff rushing the back line.

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I'm not sure I understand survival correctly. The description says it's a long term buff received after resting, but not permanent, is that right?

If this is the case, I'm wondering how long the duration is and why the boni instead of the duration increase for higher ranks.

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Notice that the description says "choose from a variety of bonuses". Does that mean you have to select one of the six when you rest (or less if your rank is less than 6), like how you select just one of your available Stronghold rest bonuses? 

 

In any case, I think increasing the bonus itself has more long-term value than increasing the duration. With the enemies you face at high levels, piddling bonuses just aren't going to be that helpful no matter what their duration is.

Edited by Infinitron
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Very interesting changes! Will be fun to try them and see how they play out.

 

I always put ranks in survival to pump the duration of my potions of DAOM; we'll see how the new survival works out.

 

Fatigue was so irrelevant, as some of you have already pointed out, that removing it is likely a good thing. Why keep an irrelevant stat in the game when you can make Athletics more interesting without?

 

The new knock-out injuries add a lot more than Fatigue to the mix imo.


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Notice that the description says "choose from a variety of bonuses". Does that mean you have to select one of the six when you rest (or less if your rank is less than 6), like how you select just one of your available Stronghold rest bonuses? 

 

In any case, I think increasing the bonus itself has more long-term value than increasing the duration. With the enemies you face at high levels, piddling bonuses just aren't going to be that helpful no matter what their duration is.

That's how I read it as well. At Survival 7, your party member gets to select the Damage Reduction v2 or any of the other (now unlocked) v1 options. At Survival 8 it's v2 DR and Healing Multiplier or any of the other v1 options.

 

Wonder if it's a "hey, one of your guys has unlocked this and now that you're resting you get to pick one thing for your whole party" thing or a "oh, I see you're resting. Please use the interface to assign individual bonuses to each of your party members based on their Survival skill" thing. I actually almost hope it's the latter though I'm sure people are going to bitch about it being tedious.


"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Will Obsidian migrate to Unity 5.2 with 3.00 patch?

 

Josh said somewhere that it is not going to happen for the WM2 or patch 3.00, but it's definitely something they're considering for a potential sequel.

Edited by Quantics

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Notice that the description says "choose from a variety of bonuses". Does that mean you have to select one of the six when you rest (or less if your rank is less than 6), like how you select just one of your available Stronghold rest bonuses? 

 

In any case, I think increasing the bonus itself has more long-term value than increasing the duration. With the enemies you face at high levels, piddling bonuses just aren't going to be that helpful no matter what their duration is.

That's how I read it as well. At Survival 7, your party member gets to select the Damage Reduction v2 or any of the other (now unlocked) v1 options. At Survival 8 it's v2 DR and Healing Multiplier or any of the other v1 options.

 

Wonder if it's a "hey, one of your guys has unlocked this and now that you're resting you get to pick one thing for your whole party" thing or a "oh, I see you're resting. Please use the interface to assign individual bonuses to each of your party members based on their Survival skill" thing. I actually almost hope it's the latter though I'm sure people are going to bitch about it being tedious.

 

 

If they do that, it'll probably be a thing you can select as a default option for every character so that you don't have to go through six menus every time you rest.

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If they do that, it'll probably be a thing you can select as a default option for every character so that you don't have to go through six menus every time you rest.

 

And if not, here's a great suggestion Obsidian.

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I think the easiest way to visualize individual resting boni would be an assignment matrix shown at resting organized as (char) x (resting bonus).

You tick a box at the intersection of the char and the resting bonus you want to have and the matrix just remembers the settings you picked last time, where unavailable assignments are grayed out.

 

You see all the assignments at once and you can just click accept if you don't want to change anything, otherwise you can change tactics without entering several submenus.

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Mechanics should be split into two different skills. lock picking and trap disarming.

 

The game definitely does not need any more resting bonuses.

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Not sure that I agree, but I definitely think finding hidden objects shouldn't be tied to mechanics.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I'm curious. Will the changes added by the patch 3.0 and WM part 2 affect my current playthrough? Or I need to start over when the patch hits to get all the changes to skills and abilities and such? I ask this because I really want to start a new game now, but I won't if I have to start all over to get all the changes. Since we can retrain our characters this should be possible, but I'm not sure. 

 

Thanks!

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I'm curious. Will the changes added by the patch 3.0 and WM part 2 affect my current playthrough? Or I need to start over when the patch hits to get all the changes to skills and abilities and such? I ask this because I really want to start a new game now, but I won't if I have to start all over to get all the changes. Since we can retrain our characters this should be possible, but I'm not sure. 

 

Thanks!

Josh said on twitter that It shouldn't. Check him out. He's pretty cool on twitter.

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Not sure that I agree, but I definitely think finding hidden objects shouldn't be tied to mechanics.

 

It's unusual, but I guess an expert would know what to look for. It probably makes more sense than someone just being really, really good at seeing things.

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With regards to traps, I could (and do) accept that. But hidden objects should be tied to something else. Stealth maybe?

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Some of the skills must translate. It would depend on the hidden object. A false panel hiding a trap is the same as a false panel hiding treasure. A few hidden objects are in natural settings and should probably be spotted by Survival.

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How about an additional skill called something like Spotting (I'd call it Perception but there's already an attribute with that name). It would cover both finding hidden objects and spotting traps, whilst mechanics would cover disarming traps and picking locks.

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Question is: Why? When I played pretty much any DnD games, I've had a character who could spot traps / disarm traps / unlock locks, as these skills sort of go hand in hand and it's quite annoying to not have them all on a single character. Merging them into a single skill seems fairly logical to me.

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In DnD games skill points were determined by class and intelligence modifiers, therefore your single character who was good at all those things was probably getting a crap-ton of said skill points at each level. In PoE skill points are a limited (some might argue, scarce) resource which is more or less undifferentiated between classes. Which means that trade-offs have to be made.

 

If I want Grieving Mother, a cipher, to have he ability to notice hidden objects in the environment (a skill the game's own lore would suggest she possesses), then she needs to have a lot of points in mechanics. If you take her auto-leveled, this isn't going to happen. If you pick her up with auto level disabled, there are hidden object checks that she will never pass, even if you dump every skill point you have into mechanics. And obviously this means that she will have developed nothing else. This goes for any of your party members (and applies to the hidden object checks that are similarly impossible to pass without a healthy dose of meta-gaming). What's more, you go to all this hassle and maybe that party member never sets a single trap.


"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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How about an additional skill called something like Spotting (I'd call it Perception but there's already an attribute with that name). It would cover both finding hidden objects and spotting traps, whilst mechanics would cover disarming traps and picking locks.

 

I think they could just handle that sort of thing with Attribute/Skill synergies. Perception/Stealth => spot hidden features; Perception/Mechanics => spot traps; Dexterity/Athletics => dodge a boulder; Intellect/Survival => herbalism, &c.

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Question is: Why? When I played pretty much any DnD games, I've had a character who could spot traps / disarm traps / unlock locks, as these skills sort of go hand in hand and it's quite annoying to not have them all on a single character. Merging them into a single skill seems fairly logical to me.

 

Oh I'm fine with the way things are. I'm just spit balling ideas on how it could be done.

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