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I'm sure this has been raised before, but I did a search for "Might" on the forums and didn't get any hits, so here is my question:

 

Why is Might required for every class? 

 

Now, Obsidian have every right to build they game they want to play - even if what they make is their own version/take of things like DnD rules and previous games like Baldur's Gate.   And if they take away 'healing' and put 'Endurance' in it's place, so be it.  (Personally I think it sounds like an extra layer of complexity, but that's their call).  I just don't understand why, in order to have an effective character in combat, you HAVE to have Might.  As a wizard, you shouldn't need it.  You never had to have might (or strength) as a Wizard before.  This would also apply to other characters like Rogues, and in this game, Ciphers, Druids, Priests etc.  But to be an effective combatant, the game says you should have Might, regardless of class.

Why do you need Might to pull a trigger on a pistol or rifle?  Why does the resulting damage from said weapons increase if you have more Might??

It was frustrating and very limiting to consider a party build where Might was needed for all classes.

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I can understand wanting to make all stats relevant, but I have to admit I've said from the very beginning that 'might' struck me as a stupid name because common usage implies physical prowess even though it's really not solely or even primarily a physical attribute. Might in this case is an abstraction of all sorts of prowess, from physical to mental to mystical to divine. Yeah, I get that the word can have those meanings, but it's not how the word is typically used. As an ol' mage wrangler myself, I can say that I find the name offputting, but if you just understand that it's simply a way of gauging anything from muscles to magical prowess and you'll be okay. I was one of the members who complained bitterly about it. :Cant's rueful grin icon:

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You don't have to have Might for an effective PotD build, for the easy levels you can do whatever.

 

For casters Might only affects damage. You can make a very effective controller type Wizard, Druid or Cipher with an average Might and instead pump Intellect for area and duration, and Perception for accuracy and interrupts.

 

Rogues can easily get to +285% damage without anything from Might, Dexterity for attack speed and Perception for accuracy are more important for them. They are the class that can ignore Might and end up with a more effective build.

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common usage implies physical prowess even though it's really not solely or even primarily a physical attribute

 

That depends on which part of the game you trust... :)

 

The combat mechanics treat Might as an across-the-board damage/healing multiplier that is not tied to physical strength. One could think of it as "soul power" or whatever.

 

On the other hand, the rest of the game does more or less pretend that Might = physical strength. Scripted interactions use Might only for moving heavy objects and stuff like that. Companions, NPCs and monsters have been assigned Might scores that roughly correspond to their physique. And so on.

 

This is the kind of discrepancy that a game end up with when the lead game designer considers "simulationism" a dirty word... :p


"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Yeah, some of the other Obsidz community members were irritated, but apparently most folks were okay with it. I guess it's just one of those things that just needs a little time. Still pops out at me, though.


Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
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Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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@OP:

 

This

 

Rogues can easily get to +285% damage without anything from Might, ....

is relevant because generally Might adds dmg in an additive way. For rogues, many of their skills involve dmg modifiers (which are also additive) which will make the added dmg from Might less significant than other classes. In my last playthrough, I have a Might 10 rogue which still I consider as effective.

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Might should be named Power or Prowess or Mastery even, but it's more of a role play thing. Now if Pillars had stat usage comparable to Planescape Torment, then yea there might have been an inconsistency problem for me, but since it's more of a tactical combat plus rpg critical path story game, it's easy to ignore it or bypass it.

 

The Japanese have an all general purpose word for that, chikara. It's either a limitation of English or a limitation of the culture using English, that there isn't a common usage world that encompasses all forms of strength, ability, prowess, excellence, mastery, etc.

 

As for why Might might affect damage from guns, one must achieve mastery of one's own body and mind to be able to look straight at a target, without flinching or wavering or hesitating, and then pulling the trigger without jerking the gun off alignment. Which requires self mastery of one's muscles, which is also part of martial arts or the ability to react instinctively to danger.

 

But the system generally doesn't make it necessary to think like this. Role playing board games, you probably have to think of stats more deeply, of course, since there's more interaction on and off the stats.

 

In game, might affects the cipher the most, since they nerfed the initial resource they use to cast spells, and the cipher only gets it back using (food) dealing damage that bypasses DR. Next, it affects healers the most, such as priests or paladins.

 

"This is the kind of discrepancy that a game end up with when the lead game designer considers "simulationism" a dirty word... "

 

I think for most people that were designing this game, their experience revolved around Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, where Strength played a critical part in certain board game interactions with the GM and environment. Thus even if Sawyer changed the stats to be more unorthodox, it doesn't provide people a universal view that is out of the box. They still rely on their old experience to design new content, which shows. Now Numenera and Planescape, the board games, are out of the box enough that it tends to shatter preconceptions.

Edited by Ymarsakar
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Semantics aside, Might is pretty much an OP stat made even more so by everything having damage reduction (it's better to hit hard than hit fast). They should probably have given it some other bonus in the place something so universally useful.

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It's bad design, and bad immersion to say a stat works one way when pushing on a wall, and another way when casting a spell. 

It's particularly egregious when there's no weight system, so you have a 2 Might paladins marching around in full plate. 

 

I understand that by design, this is not D&D, but sometimes the verisimilitude suffers for that. 

(and sometimes it benefits, of course)


Magran's fire casts light in Dark Places...

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The reason why they removed Perception as giving accuracy in 1.0, was because Perception was the op stat, since might only gave 2% per damage before the rechange.

 

A lot of things like gun criticals were also nerfed, because the high accuracy and high crit value tended to do a lot more damage than the enemies had endurance.

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