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I've played PoE when it came out, first on normal with the npc party members, then on PotD with custom party. I've enjoyed the game a lot more playing on PotD.


Bought the white march now and I'd like to start again. However I heard a lot of things have changed and I have no interest to complete the game on normal again to see what works before I do PotD. So I would like some suggestions for a well rounded custom PotD party.


 


Extra question: is PotD doable now with the story NPC's?  I know they sucked a bit prior to the expansion but have much improved since then.  Could you complete PotD with the story NPC's without being an expert on this game?


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Welcome to the forums!

 

There are two links that immediately come to mind that you might want to check out. This is a thread started by another recently returning player wanting to know basically the same things: a brief rundown of the most significant changes that affect party composition and builds in general, and I attempt to give such a summary in post #2.

 

Here is just one good short-and-sweet post on a thread made to discuss the current strongest builds. The post right below it is also good, and possibly an even better summary.

 

To answer your extra question, I and several other players, many of whom would not consider ourselves super-elite gamers by any means, have finished completionist runs of PoE with most (or all) of our allies being story companions. Though their stats may not be ideal for any given role, the differences between average distributions and min-maxed distributions in a party (even on PoTD) are quite minimal compared to just about anything else. In other words, if you have good strategy and tactics, abilities, talents, equipment, etc., your full story companion party will be maybe 95% as effective as a full custom party, so it's not like it'll take any big jump in skill to beat PoTD with one vs the other.

 

There's one other consideration I think is worth mentioning: if you want to have a paladin in your party, the advantage to making it your main is that, as you make dialogue choices that align with your chosen order's dispositions, you can gain up to +6 Deflection, +12 Fort/Reflex/Will above what you could get with a paladin who's not your main. That said, many people have beaten PoTD with a non-paladin main, so this is not a must either. This mechanic, btw, is not new and was probably in effect when you last played.

Edited by Nobear
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Zahua is quite good despite his missing 3 stat points. Devil of Caroc tends to be rather underwhelming as a Rogue, imo.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Chanters, paladins, fighters, monks, rangers are the easiest class to play for a beginner. From that list, the most versatile would be the paladin as tank/healer/dps.

 

Most dps is the ranger.

 

Most dps tank is the monk

 

And second most versatile is the chanter, for buffs and tanking.

 

Fighter is the most tanky, but you need two handed weapons to do any significant damage.

 

The more complicated classes would be the V casters, wizard, druid, and priest.

 

Some things have changed, but it's pretty minor. Perception becoming an offensive point bonus.

 

POTD is pretty easy if you have paladins and monks.

 

I would go with

 

Paladin PC

Paladin Pallegina

Monk

Ranger

Chanter

Wizard Aloth (can be replaced by a priest or druid)

 

That's a pretty easy party to micro for people new or coming back to Pillars game mechanics. The base game is more or less the same, but White March is more challenging if you go to it at level 9.

 

The difficulty of using a class is over the difficulty of story companion vs created npc. Meaning, Aloth's effectiveness is heavily dependent on whether you know of optimal spell chains or not. Whereas the Ranger's effectiveness doesn't change all that much, so long as you know how auto attack works.

 

POTD was always doable with companions, but if you aren't an expert on the Pillars game mechanics, then go with the recommended party list or classes.

Edited by Ymarsakar
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There's one other consideration I think is worth mentioning: if you want to have a paladin in your party, the advantage to making it your main is that, as you make dialogue choices that align with your chosen order's dispositions, you can gain up to +6 Deflection, +12 Fort/Reflex/Will above what you could get with a paladin who's not your main. That said, many people have beaten PoTD with a non-paladin main, so this is not a must either. This mechanic, btw, is not new and was probably in effect when you last played.

Just a slight correction: PC paladins can get up to +13 Deflection and +27 Fort/Ref/Will with the Deep Faith talent.

"Walk away, before you get hurt." [benevolent] - Luma Akasha

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Most dps is the ranger.

How can a ranger match the dps of a cipher or rogue?

 

If you are high level, I suggest using paladin and chanter as tanks. Fighter, monk and barbarian are tankier but they lack the versatility of paladin and chanter. 

 

In my opinion, a good party should have 2 front line tankers, 2 second line casters equipped with hatchet and shield (wizard sucks so use a priest and a druid here) 2 3rd line damage dealers with 3 con and 3 res ( 2 ciphers would be good. lots of cc and huge damage output)

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Since when do Wizards suck in this game? The amount of havoc they can wreck upon hitting level 9 or so is rather disproportionate.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Yeah, Wizards are amazing from the word 'go', really. The level 1 spells they have are amazing, unlike Priest, who has to wait for level 2 spells to get the borked goods.

 

As for Ranger deeps, hard to quantify for me at the moment. I'm not real sure exactly how much the damage the pet is doing. Like...how does it do that damage? I know it can hit really high at end game, but does it have a really high base, or a really high mod? I actually never even bothered to check what it's Acc is on 14, or if it's weapon counts as fast or slow.

 

Stormcaller is pretty nutty though, and their 13 stance is basically +100% post mod damage. -10 acc, which compares pretty well with Rogue's +1.2 mod, +8 acc, + 10% crit rate. Course, Rogues boosts work on Dual Wield, which is more raw damage than bows. I'm sure we could math some numbers out though.

Edited by Teioh_White
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What 2nd-level spells do you use from your Priest apart from the ever-great Suppress Affliction?

 

1st-level spells actually have Armor and Blessing which aren't half bad.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Oh, not saying Blessing or Armor of Faith are bad spells, they're just not really powerful, but. Perfectly in line with what a spell should do, unlike say, Chill Fog, which gives a group of dorks -20 def/acc/reflex, -2 speed, essentially giving a stronger buff to your team than the priests can, while still doing damage and making sure they can't rush the back line.

 

The level 2 spell i'm mostly thinking of though, is Repulsing Seal, for similar reasons for why Slicken is nice. Sure, slicken has 10m range instead of 5m, so the Priest will need a fairly bulky frontline to get it off, and as far as I can tell, Int doesn't affect it's AoE ranger, so it'll be stuck at 1.25m compared to Slickens 5ish, so it can't lock down a large group at once.

 

What it does do though, is get a hilarious large boost to Acc (seriously, it's like +50), and stuns for 2.5x the length of Slicken. It'll have a pretty fair change of knocking something down everything in the area for 20+ seconds, which is pretty crazy. Works really well if using a wizard, as the wizard can do a slicken to get things down quickly, then a priest makes sure everything stays down, and then everything is dead, and you do it all over again.

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From 1st level priest spells i like Meditation one. Big concentration bonus allows your casters to casts those Slickens/Chill Fogs/Repulsing Seals without interruptions.

 

On lvl 2 there's Holy Power. Not as good for concentration as meditation but also increases your deflection and might.

Vancian =/= per rest.

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There's one other consideration I think is worth mentioning: if you want to have a paladin in your party, the advantage to making it your main is that, as you make dialogue choices that align with your chosen order's dispositions, you can gain up to +6 Deflection, +12 Fort/Reflex/Will above what you could get with a paladin who's not your main. That said, many people have beaten PoTD with a non-paladin main, so this is not a must either. This mechanic, btw, is not new and was probably in effect when you last played.

Just a slight correction: PC paladins can get up to +13 Deflection and +27 Fort/Ref/Will with the Deep Faith talent.

 

That's not a correction: both our statements are true. Non-PC paladins with Deep Faith get +7 Deflection and +15 Fort/Reflex/Will, so PC paladins can get up to +6/12/12/12 above that.

 

What 2nd-level spells do you use from your Priest apart from the ever-great Suppress Affliction?

 

1st-level spells actually have Armor and Blessing which aren't half bad.

 

 

Aside from Repulsing Seal which Teioh mentioned, I love spamming Iconic Projection, especially when it becomes Per-Encounter.

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What 2nd-level spells do you use from your Priest apart from the ever-great Suppress Affliction?

 

1st-level spells actually have Armor and Blessing which aren't half bad.

Iconic Projection is the real winner at 2nd-level, dealing solid damage and also healing allies caught in its AoE for the same amount as Restore Light Endurance... which on the same level! Its just a wonderful spell, and is the bread and butter of a Priest once 2nd-level becomes per encounter. The next one would be Consecrated Ground, which is an amazing healing over time spell, and is very useful to cast in fights where your meat shields are taking some serious punishment. Finally there's Repulsing Seal which as mentioned, has an insane accuracy modifier and has very nice duration to boot. The only downside this spell has is its agonizingly slow casting time. If your Priest is lacking in Dex, you probably won't want to cast this.

 

Priest's 1st-level spells are pretty solid though. Armor of Faith is garbage midgame but its very nice to have during early game. Blessing is very nice, since accuracy boosts are always very welcome. Something people don't seem to talk about much is Divine Terror though. Frightened is a very nice effect, and if you don't have a Barbarian or Cipher, this is your earliest source of it. Its also nice to toss around once 1st-level spells become per encounter.

 

EDIT: I forgot Holy Meditation. Concentration buffs are very nice, plus its your earliest counter against Will O Wisps and Spores.

Edited by Wolken3156
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Most dps is the ranger.

How can a ranger match the dps of a cipher or rogue?

 

If you are high level, I suggest using paladin and chanter as tanks. Fighter, monk and barbarian are tankier but they lack the versatility of paladin and chanter. 

 

In my opinion, a good party should have 2 front line tankers, 2 second line casters equipped with hatchet and shield (wizard sucks so use a priest and a druid here) 2 3rd line damage dealers with 3 con and 3 res ( 2 ciphers would be good. lots of cc and huge damage output)

 

 

I should have been more specific. I was basing it from the limited class list. If we're talking about all classes, then Highest sustained DPS is the ranger, because of the passive bonuses on the pet and other stuff. Of course if you lose the pet, and don't have stun locks on the ranger weapons, well, it isn't that high of a dps output.

 

Ciphers have two spells, echo and antipathetic that have the highest Damage Per Second of any class, other than maybe some barbarian aoes or Fire aoe healing powers from the paladin. But those two spells are single cast abilities and may only hit like 1 to a few more people, if your position is good. So ciphers are good spike dps, but sustainable is left up to their weapon auto attack usually.

 

The Ranger's dps and cc only gets better at higher levels. But the cipher and rogues have more front loaded dps. You see them at earlier levels and they can also dish them out earlier in a fight. 

 

The other bonus for ranger dps is that because they can hit out so far, they can afford to wear zero armor. Which helps their recovery, as they have no recovery time, other than base duration on weapon rof. This isn't noticeable in short fights, which is why I say ranger sustained dps is higher.

 

A rogue melee has to position themselves and a rogue ranged type is still pretty close to the action. So a ranged rogue wouldn't work the same way because some of their talents really really need the melee dual weapon hits to dish out the pain. There will also be times when the enemy doesn't qualify for a sneak attack, although that is mitigated by critical build rogues. For the ranger, it can keep a target stun locked all the time with stun hit talent at high level.

 

So to directly address your question, a ranger can equal a cipher and a rogue's dps when the ranger applies that dps equally, over a sustained period of time, to all enemies on screen. There's no huge jagged waves going up or down in the dps chart due to rogue or cipher abilities. There's usually little to zero dps lost from moving around. Being a ranged user, the ranger can also focus fire to make the best use of dps against weakened targets. So if anyone is stunned or cced, they can get hit by the ranger for more damage, whereas other people may reach that target only when the cc wears off. There's also driving flight + twinned arrows, but I'm more thinking of builds lower level than that.

 

For the priest, I only cast iconic or repulsing see if the situation needed it. But when I did, they changed the field tactically, so it was very noticeable.

Edited by Ymarsakar
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  • 2 weeks later...

 

 

Most dps is the ranger.

 

How can a ranger match the dps of a cipher or rogue?

 

If you are high level, I suggest using paladin and chanter as tanks. Fighter, monk and barbarian are tankier but they lack the versatility of paladin and chanter. 

 

In my opinion, a good party should have 2 front line tankers, 2 second line casters equipped with hatchet and shield (wizard sucks so use a priest and a druid here) 2 3rd line damage dealers with 3 con and 3 res ( 2 ciphers would be good. lots of cc and huge damage output)

 

I should have been more specific. I was basing it from the limited class list. If we're talking about all classes, then Highest sustained DPS is the ranger, because of the passive bonuses on the pet and other stuff. Of course if you lose the pet, and don't have stun locks on the ranger weapons, well, it isn't that high of a dps output.

 

Ciphers have two spells, echo and antipathetic that have the highest Damage Per Second of any class, other than maybe some barbarian aoes or Fire aoe healing powers from the paladin. But those two spells are single cast abilities and may only hit like 1 to a few more people, if your position is good. So ciphers are good spike dps, but sustainable is left up to their weapon auto attack usually.

 

The Ranger's dps and cc only gets better at higher levels. But the cipher and rogues have more front loaded dps. You see them at earlier levels and they can also dish them out earlier in a fight. 

 

The other bonus for ranger dps is that because they can hit out so far, they can afford to wear zero armor. Which helps their recovery, as they have no recovery time, other than base duration on weapon rof. This isn't noticeable in short fights, which is why I say ranger sustained dps is higher.

 

A rogue melee has to position themselves and a rogue ranged type is still pretty close to the action. So a ranged rogue wouldn't work the same way because some of their talents really really need the melee dual weapon hits to dish out the pain. There will also be times when the enemy doesn't qualify for a sneak attack, although that is mitigated by critical build rogues. For the ranger, it can keep a target stun locked all the time with stun hit talent at high level.

 

So to directly address your question, a ranger can equal a cipher and a rogue's dps when the ranger applies that dps equally, over a sustained period of time, to all enemies on screen. There's no huge jagged waves going up or down in the dps chart due to rogue or cipher abilities. There's usually little to zero dps lost from moving around. Being a ranged user, the ranger can also focus fire to make the best use of dps against weakened targets. So if anyone is stunned or cced, they can get hit by the ranger for more damage, whereas other people may reach that target only when the cc wears off. There's also driving flight + twinned arrows, but I'm more thinking of builds lower level than that.

 

For the priest, I only cast iconic or repulsing see if the situation needed it. But when I did, they changed the field tactically, so it was very noticeable.

A ranger Definately not is capable of doing more dps then a rogue. This is a ridiculous comment and complete nonsense.

 

A rogue vs a ranger will-

 

- activated invisible untill it gets up close to it, therefore the ranger won't even be able to see it let alone hit it,

- blinding strike, the ranger is blind, sneak attack bonus, plus high chance of crit

- crippling strike, DEATHBLOWS activated, high chance of crit

 

Ranger dead

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Ranger is actually both tank and single target dps (when build and used properly with pet) which fills a very unique roll. My boar has only needed a deflection buff a few times and Im L11 playing a potd run right now. Give him Borresaine early and the proper buffs and you have a single target controlling/dps machine. He's just a bit boring, he coul duse some inherent (not talents) things to do that integrate tactically to different situations.

 

I would suggest 2 tanks (the right pet works here), 1 off tank/dps, 1 rogue, 1 wiz/dru, 1 cleric

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The fact that rogue could defeat rogue at 1vs1 does not mean he/she has more dps.

 

You are seriously understimating pet by the way. Wolf does almost as much damage as a 2-hander and can stack 175% bonus damage with 8DR bypass on endgame.

 

That is for sure not on par with rogues (120% bonus from abilities + strength + magic weapons + crit), but rangers also does damage (twin arrows...).

 

And pet is currently a good offtank too (yes, also in potd), at least as much as melee rogue. So don't tell me it gets killed everytime.

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The only real problem with the pet now is that unless its an antelope, its defenses are fairly low when it comes to eating spells or ailments. The Wolf is pretty badass, but if he gets dominated he can be more dangerous than even the enemies you're fighting!

 

Melee Rogues still do more damage but compared to a Ranger they require a lot more micromanagement, though it is very rewarding seeing a Rogue kickass so I wouldn't dismiss them for that. Ranged Rogues though are completely outclassed since Rangers have better ranged damage overall and also even provide more utility thanks to the pet. Hell, Ranged Rogues even pale to a Cipher, who doesn't deal as much damage as the Rogue (Against a single target anyway), but has a wide assortment of powers to help support their group.

 

Also, that post said Rangers had the highest sustained damage not spike damage. Which is very true since a Rangers damage is going to consistently the same throughout an entire fight, as they don't need to readjust based on certain situations like other classes, they just stand back and go pew pew! The Rogue's DPS deviates frequently due to movement and positioning requirements.

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The only real problem with the pet now is that unless its an antelope, its defenses are fairly low when it comes to eating spells or ailments. The Wolf is pretty badass, but if he gets dominated he can be more dangerous than even the enemies you're fighting!

 

Melee Rogues still do more damage but compared to a Ranger they require a lot more micromanagement, though it is very rewarding seeing a Rogue kickass so I wouldn't dismiss them for that. Ranged Rogues though are completely outclassed since Rangers have better ranged damage overall and also even provide more utility thanks to the pet. Hell, Ranged Rogues even pale to a Cipher, who doesn't deal as much damage as the Rogue (Against a single target anyway), but has a wide assortment of powers to help support their group.

 

Also, that post said Rangers had the highest sustained damage not spike damage. Which is very true since a Rangers damage is going to consistently the same throughout an entire fight, as they don't need to readjust based on certain situations like other classes, they just stand back and go pew pew! The Rogue's DPS deviates frequently due to movement and positioning requirements.

After all my play throughs on POTD I have only really found three game breaking talents/ synergies (in order)

 

- the ciphers amplified wave: how the fk this has not been nerfed I have no idea. You press a button and everyone falls to the ground. If you had two ciphers in your team you could do this twice for the ones that failed there saves. It really is a god like power. If you look at all the spells in bg2 there is nothing as powerful as this. Btw please don't nerf this obsidian.

 

- a melee rogue, dual wield pergatory and resolution, gambions padded armour (that gives haste), rot finger gloves (to straight away put afflictions on the entire mob so sneak attack and DEATHBLOWS are activated), select talents that increase accuracy as much as possible, max perception, select talents that will maximise sneak attacks and deathblows and crits. If you build a rogue like this you WILL break the game. I've tried it , I've done it it is impossible for anyone to argue this.

 

- the Druids spell relentless storm

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What does the rogue and ranger spike vs sustained dps have to do with op class builds?

 

Might as well bring in Juggernaut monk, dps tank, builds then.

Rogues and Rangers have both a couple of spike abilities but most of their DPS is completely sustainable.

 

What they miss is durability (even if pet is a decent offtank with infinite health in 2.0+).

 

Monk are really cool as "durable" DPS by the way. They really rock and have a lot of great abilities. But I don't think they're on par with rangers and rogues, especially because their DPS is a bit conditional.

 

 

On another topic, I think ranger'pet should be added to ranger's damages count. Currently they are not (tested) and it's misleading to calculate the true DPS of rangers.

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