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Obsidian can you please set a trend here.

 

Can you please sit down with your distributors and ask them or tell them depending on what kind of power you have that they need to be more clear on how the patches work and how they number them and how they are handled.

 

I feel like today with all these avenues of distribution (Steam, Origin, GoG) that we have taken a PC and turned it into multiple gaming consoles.  Which is fairly illogical but everyone is so obsessed with monetization it was inevitable.

 

Steam does not update their news feed and they auto patch unless you disable it.  They usually get patches first.

 

GoG numbers their patches and games in such a way it is very difficult to tell what patch/game correlates to what version of the game.

 

I have no experience with Origin but I am sure they have their own methodology for handling distribution.

 

All of them share very really direct information regarding patches known issues readmes or installation instructions.  They do not even have rpominent links saying hey if you want to know more info look at these links which are stickied over here in this forum.  Of course we don't even have those stickies here so...

 

So on top of waiting an extra day or two between Steam and the rest I have no clear understanding of what the patch is or what order they go in if there are multiple instances of them.  I am on GoG.  And add to that these distributors do not post good information directly.  For that I must return to this forum or to your web page.  Of course you are lacking as well in this regard but at least there is more community activity here.

 

This situation has only been amplified by the fact we must apply 2 separate patches to White March and then to the Vanilla game or vice versa.

 

Do you understand how absolutely convoluted inefficient and time consuming this has become for us players?

My guess is you could not even distribute your own game anymore anyway because they own certain distribution rights.

In addition you might as well call the Steam GoG and Origin version completely different games.

Its like they take the game and then wrap it up in some proprietary wrapper and for what?

 

I recall being able to just go to a developer's website to find a patch and it was one patch or multiple patches for different OSes.

Now on top of the multiple OSes we have 3 4 5 or more different versions of the game.

 

In theory initially and perhaps on some levels these methods of distribution have helped the community of gamers.  I know they have garnered a lot of revenue for Steam and all but forced all devs to sign on with them but it is so incredibly inefficient.  It is like taking a wheel and making it square and adding more hoops to jump through when there were already enough to begin with.

 

Can you at least start a discussion with your distributors about creating some form of standard so that potentially you could eventually just post patches again on your own site with all the relevant information.  At the least get your distributors to stream a standardized news feed that you can control so we know the notes and known issues and installation instructions.

 

I say this because recently I had the big pink mess issue in White March and I found the solution was an illogical one.  At least to my mind.  I had to install the White March patch and the base Game patch.  Both were for 2.01.  This made no sense to me and seemed like I was just going to overwrite stuff if I used one or the other.  In this scenario you really should make a patch that detects if White March is installed and if so it Patches the base and White March and if it is not detected it just patches the base game.

 

I feel like we are going backwards technologically with issues like these where we should be heading towards a more efficient and direct approach and not reverse engineering every little bit and repackaging it so it can be monetized in different arenas.

 

There are so many added variables in just the distribution of games today that it has become even more difficult to reproduce or hone in on issues as how can we tell if it is related to the distributors who are becoming a lot more liberal and their packaging or the game itself.

 

I myself would love to go back to a time where we just got our games from the devs but that is incredibly unlikely (almost impossible) so please start some dialog about standardization and information sharing please.

 

At the very least all distributors should have the same patch notes installation procedures and readmes available to us.  They should also all have known issues shared across forums and within the distribution systems themselves.  I mean who is responsible for relaying this information anymore?   In addition please get rid of this 2 patch nonsense.  It is ludicrous and on top of the already convoluted miasma I must partake in to get this on my machine it is very frustrating.

 

I understand the reason behind these distribution methods and thank goodness GoG stepped up and gave us that option.  However just like pre-midi days we are starting to see what I think is an issue that will balloon over time and that is a total lack of standardization with distribution.  There is an incredible lack of communication with the distribution.  And since I doubt we are going to get more employees to go around and make sure the info is available I would suggest creating an automated feed that is shared across the distribution platforms and one that you the developer has control over.

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The problem with GoG Galaxy is that it wanted to download like 5.7 GB for the patching while the manual patches were like 100 MB and 200 MB. Or at least it was for me. If you are anywhere that bandwidth speed or volume downloaded is an issue it makes a huge difference.

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The problem with GoG Galaxy is that it wanted to download like 5.7 GB for the patching while the manual patches were like 100 MB and 200 MB. Or at least it was for me. If you are anywhere that bandwidth speed or volume downloaded is an issue it makes a huge difference.

 

That's certainly true and something that should be fixed. CDPR seems to have some pretty good programmers, one might think they'd be able to handle binary deltas.

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I agree with the issues listed for the GOG patching system (if we can call it a system at all) not to mention the extremely long waits for those of us who also have a DVD version to be patched. :(

Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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Switching to GoG Galaxy helped me, the manual patching on GoG had screwed up my game such that a bunch of my saves didn't appear, so I uninstalled and got it through Galaxy again and everything is working fine now.  Generally I don't like to use clients and like to upgrade games on my own terms, but in this case because the game is updating so much and requires multiple files, I think it's worth to use the client to handle things.

 

I also noticed in one of my logs when I had the manual patched game that wasn't working that the game looking for GoG Galaxy files, even though I wasn't using it and had never installed it, don't know if that wasn't breaking anything, failing to load files never looks good, especially considering how many problems there seem to be related to the GOG 2.02 patch. 

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Switching to GoG Galaxy helped me, the manual patching on GoG had screwed up my game such that a bunch of my saves didn't appear, so I uninstalled and got it through Galaxy again and everything is working fine now.  Generally I don't like to use clients and like to upgrade games on my own terms, but in this case because the game is updating so much and requires multiple files, I think it's worth to use the client to handle things.

 

I also noticed in one of my logs when I had the manual patched game that wasn't working that the game looking for GoG Galaxy files, even though I wasn't using it and had never installed it, don't know if that wasn't breaking anything, failing to load files never looks good, especially considering how many problems there seem to be related to the GOG 2.02 patch. 

 

Logging in or using that much bandwidth is not an option for some.

Especially since I already re-installed once already.

 

The entire reason I go with GoG is to not join a system like Steam.

I could care less about competing with others over achievements or sharing them or having my entire library tracked and eventually have game ads and other things pushed to me based on demographics they keep on me.

I just want to download a game and play it.

If there is a patch I want a patch that just works.

Having to basically re-install with each patch is a nightmare.

I have no idea why they can not run a single patch that checks files that are outdated and overwrites them as needed.

This is honestly the sloppiest I have seen both a developer and a distributor handle a game.

There is no installation instructions.  No information or official comments.  We have 2 patches which makes no sense.  Never before whether I had a expansion or not did I have to install 2 patches.

 

These issues have been on my mind for a while as we move to an era of gaming that we will no longer even be playing our games locally and likely be leasing systems somewhere in the cloud where we play our games from.  Then we will have a new GoG system that will have to grab the info from the cloud systems and recompile it just so we can then have our games locally.  Which will be fairly essential for modding or any for of tweaks or control.  Which leads to the crux of my problem with joining the Galaxy or Steam or others.  I want to control where I install my game.  I want to know what is coming and where its going.  I want to be able to modify as I wish certain settings and different aspects for the game to be as I want it to be.  We are basically leasing games today.  It is just a loose form of it and these types of systems are only exacerbating certain problems.

 

And although the problem is stated as fixed if I use Galaxy.  It does not solve the problem with the manual patches which are supposed to be a viable way for us to get the game without dealing with the social network game platform.

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I agree, I didn't want to use Galaxy at all, I was just throwing it out there as a suggestion because it did work and it worked on the first try, even if it took a lot of time and bandwidth.  All my other GOG games I'm still going to maintain manually.  My short term concern was just to get up and running again.  Ideally though the manual patches would be easier to use, more reliable and have better instructions.

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I agree, I didn't want to use Galaxy at all, I was just throwing it out there as a suggestion because it did work and it worked on the first try, even if it took a lot of time and bandwidth.  All my other GOG games I'm still going to maintain manually.  My short term concern was just to get up and running again.  Ideally though the manual patches would be easier to use, more reliable and have better instructions.

 

Thanks.  I might try it as a last resort.

So far this is the only game that has even close to this many problems.  And I am not thinking that is only because of GoG.

I think Obsidian is doing some very odd things with patches.

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This is honestly the sloppiest I have seen both a developer and a distributor handle a game.

There is no installation instructions. No information or official comments. We have 2 patches which makes no sense. Never before whether I had a expansion or not did I have to install 2 patches.

Uh... is this the first game you've ever played? Because I've seen much, much worse - and more times than I have appendages to count them with.

 

Which leads to the crux of my problem with joining the Galaxy or Steam or others.  I want to control where I install my game.  I want to know what is coming and where its going.  I want to be able to modify as I wish certain settings and different aspects for the game to be as I want it to be.  We are basically leasing games today.  It is just a loose form of it and these types of systems are only exacerbating certain problems.

 

None of that applies to Galaxy. You decide where to install the games. You decide whether to auto-update or download patches of your own choosing manually. And you own the games you buy - you can download installers and make backup copies, for example.

 

You can use Galaxy purely as a download manager or a patching tool. But clearly that's not good enough for you, because you hate it on principle.

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Which leads to the crux of my problem with joining the Galaxy or Steam or others. I want to control where I install my game. I want to know what is coming and where its going. I want to be able to modify as I wish certain settings and different aspects for the game to be as I want it to be. We are basically leasing games today. It is just a loose form of it and these types of systems are only exacerbating certain problems.

None of that applies to Galaxy. You decide where to install the games. You decide whether to auto-update or download patches of your own choosing manually. And you own the games you buy - you can download installers and make backup copies, for example.

 

You can use Galaxy purely as a download manager or a patching tool. But clearly that's not good enough for you, because you hate it on principle.

It doesn't all apply to Steam either. You can mod Steam games and choose where to install them. Tbh, I don't think I own any games which don't let me change the installation path, no matter the method of distribution.

 

I also don't consider Galaxy a social network platform. It has what, just a friend list?

Edited by Rosveen
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Which leads to the crux of my problem with joining the Galaxy or Steam or others. I want to control where I install my game. I want to know what is coming and where its going. I want to be able to modify as I wish certain settings and different aspects for the game to be as I want it to be. We are basically leasing games today. It is just a loose form of it and these types of systems are only exacerbating certain problems.

None of that applies to Galaxy. You decide where to install the games. You decide whether to auto-update or download patches of your own choosing manually. And you own the games you buy - you can download installers and make backup copies, for example.

 

You can use Galaxy purely as a download manager or a patching tool. But clearly that's not good enough for you, because you hate it on principle.

It doesn't all apply to Steam either. You can mod Steam games and choose where to install them. Tbh, I don't think I own any games which don't let me change the installation path, no matter the method of distribution.

 

I also don't consider Galaxy a social network platform. It has what, just a friend list?

 

 

No not principal. Because I do not want yet another system in the middle of my installs.  Its simple.

And I am not hating on Galaxy or Steam even though I think they have set a certain trend in motion that many will not notice now if they are newer gamers.

This is simply about efficiency and control.  As well as cross platform communication unclear notes and installations and unnecessary additional confusion.

The Steam and GoG version of the game are ultimately different games which rely on different things that have been placed their by the distribution client.

GoG tries to make itself accessible though with Steam and achievements and such.

Never the less if you open either of the installs the amount of dlls and other files that are not tied to the game but to the distributor is pretty large.

And I am not sure if Steam recently changed something but I have never had access without hacking to change my install directory with Steam.

GoG I can.  Also if Steam or GoG pushes a patch and the mod is set up for another version of the game you run into errors.  Yes you can disable auto update but it is on by default.  Yes you can monitor the distribution system and track forums for upcoming updates and make sure you are prepared.  However both of those add extra work and time for the user to deal with.  If your fine with whatever they give you it doesn't really pose a problem.  Also if your not too into extensive modding it could potentially not be a problem for you.  But once you want to exercise a greater degree of control over these systems which are delivering content to your computer it becomes fairly convoluted fast.

 

What Pillars has shown with the numerous issues with the manual installs and GoG is that we need at the very least some more communication between GoG and Obsidian.

My opinion is they need cross platform feeds that the developers can post information.  And the communication should be prioritized since as of now I still cant get the manual patches to work from GoG.  And as I stated installing from Galaxy is the difference between 7gb and 200mb which is significant.  Especially for bandwidth restrictions or slow speeds.

 

I know these systems are not going away.  They make huge revenue for the distributors and now since gamers have become centralized within these systems the developers have to use them.  Which has led to other issues I wont even go into here.

 

For those who are either wanting full control or would like to stay in full control of what is going on with their computers having yet another distribution funnel is problematic.  Its not about conspiracies or hate either.  Its fairly simple if you send a package in the mail direct it has less variables in which it can be misdirected.  Yet if you mail it to another distribution center and perhaps they mail it to someone else there is a possibility the package delivery could have problems.  And then the problem arises of whom is responsible.  In this case is the developer responsible or is GoG responsible or is the server techs that host GoG's data?

 

I know the average individual reads this as some attack against the systems.  Honestly yes I would rather have the older school days where I could get my game and patches directly from the developer.  I do not necessarily miss box purchases but I do miss the maps!  My main point was that there needs to better communication throughout the entire distribution process.  And that the more hoops that are added the greater the likelihood of issues.

 

In addition and this is the futurist in me talking but like I also stated these systems are a precursor to total remote play of games and the leasing of cloud systems to play them.  At their core these systems and GoG tried to counter it is a desire to take more control from the user.  Which from a monetization standpoint is absolutely brilliant.  Steam is probably the biggest and with their demographics info they can pretty much tell who is playing what and where and what is selling and what is not.  They also with the amount of eyeballs they have can coerce people or draw their attention to certain games.  They could call it targeted ads or something similar but in the long run its a form of control the older decentralized methods did not have.  And in a benevolent world that would not pose any issue whatsoever.  In fact it would be beneficial.  But right now it will eventually lead to almost no control over what games are made how they are distributed and where they are installed or played from.  I know we have kickstarter and such which opens doors for the creation of games but these centralized systems have the control valve on their distribution and how they are consumed.  So they set the precedent in the long term.  I know the whole leasing systems in the cloud may be extreme.  But when valve released Steam with Half-Life back in the day there were numerous people who said it would never survive and people would boycott it.  And slowly over time they basically won which was inevitable since they are both a monetization funnel a demographics funnel and a drm system.  Which unloads pressure from developers for sure.  However it has reduced control and quasi breached privacy.  And as with anything any centralized power gets just too powerful and literally becomes the dominant force in whatever that centralization is pertaining to.

 

Most of it is likely inevitable.  Who thinks that far ahead today.  What I am asking for is some balance and greater communication and optimally (I hope hope hope hope) a continual method in which I can just get access to my games directly and manually without a third or fourth or even fifth party in between.

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