Jump to content

Devil of Caroc far worse than other rogues? (gameplay discussion only, avoid story spoilers pls)


Recommended Posts

TLDR summary:

Even when not looking at the attributes (which we can't change for any voiced companion and which might be good or bad), the devil is worse than any other companion considering gameplay.

 

Pros & Cons for the devil:

- can't switch armor, is stuck with a variant of breast plate (without any unique trait or advantage)

- is therefore stuck with unenchanted armor when most of your other companions already wear uniques at that point

- can't use food, drinks or drugs (potions work)

+ Immune to disease and poison

 

That's it. The minimal, situational advantage of poison/disease resistance replaces the far more useful racial traits of other companions.

Yet we still have to live with all the disadvantages. There are no extra attribute points, no other unique traits, no special skill.

 

Considering all the downsides, I would at least have expected her to be free of armor recovery penalty (zero development time!).

She would have offered so many opportunities for unique gameplay, but there's nothing.

Her story is cool, but her gameplay is very disapponting.

 

Suggestion:

Make her armor 0% recovery in the next patch. It fits with her "living machine" trait and would compensate for her armor-related drawbacks. It would be a very quick fix (changing a value for a single item, maybe change the the text for her unique trait). There's no unexpected consequences or balance issues (she would only be a bit quicker in her actions, nothing out of the ordinary)

 

If you think 0% is too much, remember that other armors have "second chance" and other useful, unique traits. Also remember that her current racial trait cancels itself out (having at least as much negative as positive effects) - meaning that she actually has no racial advantage right now !!! The resulting extra attack speed would have to compensate for both the lacking unique racial trait as well as the lacking unique armor trait.

 

 

EDIT:

She even has two stat points less than all other companions (those two you get for your race)!!!

Edited by Tomice
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pros & Cons for the devil:

- can't switch armor, is stuck with a variant of breast plate (without any unique trait or advantage)

- is therefore stuck with unenchanted armor when most of your other companions already wear uniques at that point

 

It's true that you can't give her unique enchantments, but you can enchant the armor just like regular armor. You can make it superb, give it an attribute bonus, proofing and even the durgan steel upgrade.

 

There are still plenty more cons than pros, but just to clarify for people who might get the idea that you can't enchant at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeh, her body being - you know - her body ... it shouldn't really have any recovery penalty. Just like a Druid's Spiritshift has 0% recovery penalty. This would make her special, since she cannot wear any unique armor with cool properties (and you need to invest an adra dragon scale to make her body Superb, whereas other party members can wear unique armor that already comes with the Superb quality.)

  • Like 2

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Her voice acting owns which makes her superior. Why does it even matter if she isn't super min/maxed? The game is already jokingly easy on POTD.

 

It's not about min/maxing, that's why I didn't mention her attributes.

It's more about missed opportunity, lack of thought by the devs and the ingame implementation not living up to the amazing concept.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its really hard to go wrong with a melee rogue, the only talent you actually need is sneak attack.... And attributes don't matter that much, most of their damage comes from sneak attack/deathblows. But yeah it would be nice from a role playing pov, if there was something special about her build. Maybe a special ability of some sort?

  • Like 1

"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its really hard to go wrong with a melee rogue, ....

 

She's OK though.

 

... it's not like she isn't sufficient enough.

 

Of course one can finish the game even with bad chars on lower difficulties (maybe even POTD if you play really well).

 

This doesn't change that her "race" is the only one that consists only of weaknesses.

 

 

EDIT:

She even has two stat points less than all other companions (those two you get for your race)!

Gonna post this to the bug forum.

Edited by Tomice
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Its really hard to go wrong with a melee rogue, ....

 

 

She's OK though.

 

 

... it's not like she isn't sufficient enough.

 

 

Of course one can finish the game even with bad chars on lower difficulties (maybe even POTD if you play really well).

 

This doesn't change that her "race" is the only one that consists only of weaknesses.

 

 

EDIT:

She even has two stat points less than all other companions (those two you get for your race)!

Gonna post this to the bug forum.

I'm not suggesting that they don't tweak her, just that she is far from useless, the fact that she is a rogue makes her strong.

"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

the only thing she is missing is her body to be with armor that has 0% recovery penalty... it is HER BODY after all...

It's not her body, her soul was forcefully transferred into it.

 

 

technically it is HER body.... she is not wearing the armor. it is her new physical existence... she cannot just get it off, and put it on shelves, can she?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

technically it is HER body.... she is not wearing the armor. it is her new physical existence... she cannot just get it off, and put it on shelves, can she?

No. But she wasn't born with it, so it isn't her body. Secondary effects are to be expected. This isn't Fullmetal Alchemist, even if the soul stuff reminds me of it quite a bit. But then again, that happens every time something has "souls" as an important feature of their world. I already thought that FMA owed a lot to Final Fantasy 7.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Upgrade her armor to at least exceptional, slap on a +2 attribute, slash or pierce proof for another +4 (like all armor enhancing a DR that is boosted by the base armor boosts your enchantment as well), and then use Durgan steel on her to drop armor penalty to only 25% but protects like plate.

 

Between her heavy armor and high resolve she was made for tanking. Give her a shield and a reinforcing exhortation and she is around 115 deflection which is decidedly not squishy.

 

For further enhancement durgan steel her shield and weapon for another +30% attack speed buff.

 

From a math standpoint she does fine as long as you embrace her strengths, which is tankyness.

 

From a role play and voice acting standpoint she is a definite keeper.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Upgrade her armor to at least exceptional, slap on a +2 attribute, slash or pierce proof for another +4 (like all armor enhancing a DR that is boosted by the base armor boosts your enchantment as well), and then use Durgan steel on her to drop armor penalty to only 25% but protects like plate.

 

Between her heavy armor and high resolve she was made for tanking. Give her a shield and a reinforcing exhortation and she is around 115 deflection which is decidedly not squishy.

 

For further enhancement durgan steel her shield and weapon for another +30% attack speed buff.

 

From a math standpoint she does fine as long as you embrace her strengths, which is tankyness.

 

From a role play and voice acting standpoint she is a definite keeper.

 

But still she will be worse than any normal rogue  :dancing:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Upgrade her armor to at least exceptional, slap on a +2 attribute, slash or pierce proof for another +4 (like all armor enhancing a DR that is boosted by the base armor boosts your enchantment as well), and then use Durgan steel on her to drop armor penalty to only 25% but protects like plate.

 

Between her heavy armor and high resolve she was made for tanking. Give her a shield and a reinforcing exhortation and she is around 115 deflection which is decidedly not squishy.

 

For further enhancement durgan steel her shield and weapon for another +30% attack speed buff.

 

From a math standpoint she does fine as long as you embrace her strengths, which is tankyness.

 

From a role play and voice acting standpoint she is a definite keeper.

But still she will be worse than any normal rogue :dancing:

That's about the size of it. When you have to use valuable Durgan Steel that you could be using on a better character to make the Devil competent for a rogue at a role that rogues in general don't excel at, you've got a bit of a problem.

 

At least she's a decent candidate for the Deep Wounds/Retaliation combo. That's something.

If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If she is like other companions you can respec her into something else using iemod

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/1/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fpillarsofeternity%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D1%26preview%3D&pUp=1

 

This way you can add or detract skills/abilities and redo attributes scores.

You can also turn her into another class.  To account for the loss of armor you could add offensive/defensive abilities with the console.

When I do get her I will be doing this so I can experience her story but also so she is another class because my custom made Rogue is so awesome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

the only thing she is missing is her body to be with armor that has 0% recovery penalty... it is HER BODY after all...

It's not her body, her soul was forcefully transferred into it.

 

 

technically it is HER body.... she is not wearing the armor. it is her new physical existence... she cannot just get it off, and put it on shelves, can she?

 

But the Bronze body wasn't designed to be Hk-47. Because she looks and sounds cool, is a murderer and is named Devil people assume it's some perfectly constructed killing machine but her story doesn't indicate that she'd be especially deadly.

 

Still, she is worse than a regular rogue and that's bad. I like the basic principle that story NPCs have some unique feature that makes them a bit better than standard versions of their class. Not absurd and envy inducing overpoweredness like Edwin, but there should be something. And in her case, we've only got immunity to disease and poison which is nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is she worse than other Rogues?

 

Make a Rogue with the same stats and place them in plate mail to get comparable DR. Her armor speed reduction is only 40% instead of the 50% from plate. She is not a dress wearing glass cannon, give her Weapon and Shield style, the retaliate buckler and a good Sabre with Fellbore for an alpha strike and she kick's ass.

 

Disease immunity might not be that great but there is a lot of poison around. Compared to broken super cheese that is Moon Godlike's AoE heal three times per encounter, everything is weak.

 

And what is bad about Zahua other than the drugged up tribal schtick? With heavy armor and fists or weapons he does great. I've got him in the Sanguine Plate, Shod in Faith boots and Durgan enhanced Tide Fall greatsword and he is a monster.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...