[2.01] Best melee weapon classes? Sword vs Saber vs Mace vs ....

[Tomice]

Not talking about unique weapons here, but about general weapon types. What are recommended melee weapons and which should be avoided?

 

There are some weapons for special roles I'll immediately exclude for obvious reasons:

- Hatchets are for those only seeking deflection and not really trying to damage anything

- Quarterstaffs & Pikes have reach, creating a "second line" between your tanks and your ranged chars - hard to compare to first line tanks.

 

 

I guess that pierce damage is less than ideal, considering all bows, xbows and guns have this damage? So I should take slash or crush on my frontliners to avoid being unable to damage certain enemies properly? Is it true that crush damage is less resisted than slash?

 

What's the difference between weapons with DR (mace, estoc), more raw damage (saber), dual damage types (sword, great sword, war hammer, pollaxe) and accurate weapons (rapier, dagger, club, spear)?

DR is obvious, but the others also result in more damage, possibly exceeding the DR effect?

 

 

Personally, I find maces very attractive (crush is less commonly resisted and the extra DR gives some reliable damage output). War hammers look good, too, providing both damage types your ranged chars can't deliver.

[pi2repsion]

I am assuming in the following that you are comparing weapons with the same weapon speed (or at least taking weapon speed and any on-hit enchant effects into consideration), as comparing e.g. a fast accuracy weapon like a rapier with a higher damage range weapon like a sabre and looking just at the fast/damage range without considering weapon speed is a mistake.

 

Accuracy vs the others:

 

5 points of Accuracy from weapon is nearly worth a full talent point. HOWEVER, there are many ways of boosting accuracy in game and the further one gets in the game the more are readily available, while there are no ways to improve the base weapon damage or change the base damage types of a weapon, and few ways of getting extra DR. So all else being equal, Accuracy just doesn't match up unless the weapon has some outstanding enchant that isn't readily available otherwise.

 

 

DR and higher damage vs dual physical damage types.

 

MOST enemies have roughly the same DR against the different physical damage types, making 3 or 5 DR objectively better against dual physical damage types, giving a small but consistent advantage. MOST of the time.

 

A higher damage range from sabre gives DR a run for the money. Which is best in a given situation - all enchants being ignored - depends on how much you graze/hit/crit - but as this is too much bother to work out, just accept that it is roughly as effective as DR unless you have a heavily crit focused build, in which case the higher damage range is better.

 

So MOST of the time you'll gain a small advantage from not using dual physical damage types.

 

But most isn't the same as all, and there are a considerable number of enemies that have DR that is more than 5 higher against some physical damage types than others, and a smaller but still noticeable number of enemies, typical harder enemies, where the DR of one is very much higher than the other two (and a very few that have two high and one low), where dual physical damage types may do much better or, in some cases, a lot better.

 

And then there are the enemies that are immune to a physical damage type, while they are few and far between, if your enemy is immune to your DR weapon's sole damage type, you are pretty much out of luck and will have to use another weapon.

 

As an amusing example, those blights up in the White March are immune to Blunt Damage, and the soulbound Greenstone Staff, which deals blunt damage, requires you to kill Blights with it. (So you'll have to beat up other Blights that aren't immune back in the main game to level it up).

 

 

But frankly? They all work well. My preference is for dual damage types, because I prefer their general reliability and the game supplies me with many good Greatswords - marriage of desire and convenience, so to speak.

Edited September 10, 2015 by pi2repsion

[MunoValente]

I like Pollaxes, but there aren't a ton of great unique ones.  

 

There are some really good unique Estocs, but they are single damage type.

[KDubya]

I look at the weapon groups, especially if it is for a Fighter who'll be taking focus, spec and mastery. I like ones that give me flexibility with good melee and ranged options. I'm also starting to really like Island Aaumau for the tactical flexibility of an extra free weapon slot.

 

1.) Soldier - probably the best one. You get a reach two hander- pike- a dual type two hander - great sword - , a dual type single - warhammer -  and two strong alpha striking ranged - arbalest and arquebus.

 

2.) Adventurer - Estocs are the most damaging two handers, flails are good with the graze>hit but I wish they were normal speed, and war bows are a solid ranged weapon when you want to shoot more than once.

 

3.) Ruffian - Sabres, stillettos, pistols and blunderbuss are all good. Only downside is that there are not any two handers in the group.

 

4.) Peasant - the reaching quarterstaff and the accurate spear are the standouts here.

 

5.) Knight - crossbow is not a bad ranged weapon, not as strong for the alpha strike as  the soldier group but better than war bow. Morning stars have the strongest interrupt and axes and swords do well as onehanders.

 

6.) The rest - maces seem great but are grouped with terrible ranged weapons - rods or something like that and no two handers.

 

 

With the new immunities the dual type weapons have gained in importance. You don't want to be caught with the same damage type in both slots when you find something immune.

[Tomice]

Thank you for the elaborate answers!

 

A related question:

 

Is there any reason for a ranged specialist to switch to melee weapons if he is forced into melee?

Assuming he has similar-quality melee weapons in the other slot and doesn't have talents that are specialized towards a certain weapon group?

[KDubya]

Thank you for the elaborate answers!

 

A related question:

 

Is there any reason for a ranged specialist to switch to melee weapons if he is forced into melee?

Assuming he has similar-quality melee weapons in the other slot and doesn't have talents that are specialized towards a certain weapon group?

 

It depends.

 

If your ranged guy is using a very slow arbalest or arquebus, it would probably be better to swap to an accurate weapon and shield, like a spear or club. Maybe even try for a damage type other than what your ranged damage is in case you meet an immune.

 

There is no penalty for using ranged weapons in melee range, its just that they tend to be slower than melee for the same damage.

 

Also the swapping to a weapon and shield is more about getting more deflection to survive the attack rather than an attempt to kill the attacker.

 

For my wizards I like the Grimoire Slam that is usable once per encounter. It always hits and always knocks back such that I can run away or re-acquire the enemy with someone sturdier than the wizard.

[Ymarsakar]

I have a shield slot for most squishy and melee characters, so that they can up their deflection to give more time for healing. Or to take less hits from disengagement.

 

Druid needs an excuse for shapeshift and someone getting right up next them is as good as any. Their claws do the damage of a two handed weapon, except as a 2x fist attack, benefiting greatly from the lash wildstrikes.

 

Generally they just need to survive long enough for the cipher to drain enough focus for a mental binding, then they can reposition.

 

My wizard uses normal hatchet and fine large shield, because his deflection is low and he has better spell weapons than locking up a rare item in his slot. That makes up for the wizard's lower base deflection, and combined with arcane veil or the mirror images, his deflection is high enough to make attacks miss him, which is nice because no interrupts or poison or other effects attached to the hit.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Nobear]

My wizard uses normal hatchet and fine large shield, because his deflection is low and he has better spell weapons than locking up a rare item in his slot. That makes up for the wizard's lower base deflection, and combined with arcane veil or the mirror images, his deflection is high enough to make attacks miss him, which is nice because no interrupts or poison or other effects attached to the hit.

 

To be clear for everyone reading this, the accuracy malus from any shield larger than a small shield affects spells as well. What Ymarsakar describes is ok, however, if his Wizard is only casting self buffs and then auto attacking with a conjured weapon. This causes him to temporarily lose the deflection bonus (and accuracy malus, and any enchants) of the shield, but the conjured weapons are very strong so, if built for it, this can work well. So the purpose of the shield for him is simply to raise his deflection while he is self-buffing before conjuring the weapon.

[Killyox]

Greenstone Staff is terrible for Monk ;P probably same with Druid etc. Unlocking it is also TERRIBLE. You have to physically deliver the last hit with the staff itself. If you use monk skills that do full attack and they score killing blow it does not count. Which is.... stupid.

 

As for the best weapon?

 

Saber - Resolution with Durgan Steel. +15% Attack Speed, 20% graze-to-hit, 20% hit-to-crit, +80% crit dmg. Devil of Caroc 1h + shield does 90-100 dmg per hit

 

Pike - Tall Grass with Durgan Steel, huge reach, 30% hit-to-crit, +15% attack speed, Crits can inflict prone. Best on Barbarian. Prone everywhere.

 

St. Ydwen SB weap - due to Vessel Desctruction that is amazing on a barbarian

 

 

My top picks tbh.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Killyox