I wonder if anyone else noticed - AI behavior

[abaris]

It happened to me a number of times now that the AI on autopilot just wanders off to fight some enemies that aren't even visible. Sometimes virtually drawing more enemies into an already tough battle, sometimes going off on a suicide mission.

 

Last time it happened in the White marches. I'm concentrating on two or three companions, issuing orders and have Aloth on crowd control. Suddenly I notice his endurance has dropped to zero within seconds. I didn't give it much thought until after the battle, since it was a close call. But then I notice, he's not recovering. He's not even there. He virtually stormed off to the other side of the map to engage a totally different horde in a yet to be uncovered spot.

Edited September 6, 2015 by abaris

[AndreaColombo]

I get that quite often.

 

It is rather irritating but as it happens randomly (or seemingly so at any rate*), it is very hard to get a repro case for QA. That's why I haven't reported it yet.

 

* I am sure there are certain conditions that, if met, repro this behavior with 100% accuracy. It's just very hard to tell since it revolves around enemies that are effectively beyond your line of sight.

 

My custom party have all their A.I. set to Aggressive; guess it doesn't happen with Defensive.

[abaris]

I don't know. Monk on interruptor is a sure recipe to reproduce it. He goes off, engaging far away enemies when the interruptor conditions aren't met with the current engagement.

 

But I too have the problem that I can't produce a safe with these conditions.

[the_dog_days]

When you set the AI to Aggressive the NPCs go looking for something to attack. Set the AI to Defensive and they only attack mobs in their field of view. Set the AI to Self Defense and they won't attack anyone that hasn't hit them with an attack first.

 

I usually leave the AI on Defensive.

[abaris]

No, it doesn't solve the problem.

 

At level 7 of the endless paths I had the devil taking off to fight a different group of elementals instead of the ones right in front of her bloody nose. I had Zaoah disengage to run to one of these rounded chambers and I had the rest of the group doing absolutely nothing unless directly ordered. In which case they got one hit off or one spell cast until the returned to total passivity unless directly attacked. And by the way, as I said above, Zaoah on disruptive is a sure recipe for AI desaster.

[Wozzeck]

I noticed it too and it's terrible. Or at least pretty annoying.

 

This thread should be moved to the bugs section, to make the developers aware and sorry enough about it, that they fix it very soon.

[abaris]

I noticed it too and it's terrible. Or at least pretty annoying.

 

This thread should be moved to the bugs section, to make the developers aware and sorry enough about it, that they fix it very soon.

 

The problem is, I can't produce a save with what is happening. I can only point out, that it is indeed happening. I wouldn't even know how to get a save when it's occuring in the midst of combat.

[AndreaColombo]

You can save close to enemies and write in the repro steps to enter combat. However, there must be enemies nearby out of your line of sight too; kinda hard to determine unless you already know enemy positions by heart

[the_dog_days]

I've never had this problem. The companion AI works fine for me. What difficulty level are you playing on? I usually play on normal or sometimes scale it down to easy. The bug might be connected to hard or PotD.

[abaris]

I've never had this problem. The companion AI works fine for me. What difficulty level are you playing on? I usually play on normal or sometimes scale it down to easy. The bug might be connected to hard or PotD.

 

No, I took it back to normal with 2.0 - to learn the ropes with the new AI behavior. It was on normal, defesive AI behavior.

[Oralaina]

 

I noticed it too and it's terrible. Or at least pretty annoying.

 

This thread should be moved to the bugs section, to make the developers aware and sorry enough about it, that they fix it very soon.

 

The problem is, I can't produce a save with what is happening. I can only point out, that it is indeed happening. I wouldn't even know how to get a save when it's occuring in the midst of combat.

 

 

Can't you pause the game and save in the middle of combat?  I've done that - but maybe if you're on something higher than normal it doesn't work?

[synfrei]

can it be he got charmed and moved "our of controll" to another group ? or maybe some other spell effects ?

[AnjyBelle]

I wondered, too, but if you look here

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/81379-20-dlc-ai-discussion/

 

zero replies.

 

Since I posted this, I watched the AI under different conditions.

 

IMO it needs a total rework.

 

Examples:

 

The Paladin should use the talent "sworn enemy" if set to "aggressive". Sometimes she uses it, sometimes not. If she uses it, she seems not to distinguish week enemies from strong ones. For me it looks like a totally random use of the talent.

 

The cleric set on "support" uses the talent "...radiance" hardly, even if more than one companions are under 50%.

 

Rangers use their talent "wounding shot" also randomly and  - like the paladin - seem not to use it on the hard enemies exclusively.

 

Often I notice, that if a fight is over it is indeed not, because one of the companions ran away to fight something FAR away from the group, which results mostly in a defeat. As long as the one who ran off is "dead", the fight won't finish and I am forced to go to the "dead" and continue the fight there. This is especially  annoying, when my party is heavily wounded (= health bars are under 50%) and I would need to rest. I believe that this happens more often in dungeons, where the space is too narrow for all to reach their targets.

But - as others reported - it happens, too, out in the open.

 

A good place to check this is the first level of Od Nua.

Enter and fight the mob in the room southwest. Proceed to the room in which the looters are. Here my "disruptor monk" runs always further southwest and triggers the beetles there instead of fighting the looters.

 

IMO the "special roles" like monk-disruptor or a rogue set to "cautious" and a cleric set to anything else than "aggressive" are not really working correctly. A pity for me, because I really like a functional AI like we had in NWN 1+2 (Tony K.   !!!) and in DA:O.

 

As someone stated in a Steam-thread: The AI is capable to manage fights against easy mobs but fails miserably when things get tough.

 

 

@ Synfrei

 

Clear answer: No.

 

When they get charmed or confused they hardly run away. Instead they just stand there and mostly attack the own group. I've never seen one running away. In my example above (looters in Od Nua) is no enemy caster to charm or confuse someone in my party.

Edited September 8, 2015 by AnjyBelle

[abaris]

You're describing pretty much every issue I had.

 

Though the Paladin doies use Sworn Enemy - only to attack a totally different character right afterwards.

[AnjyBelle]

You're describing pretty much every issue I had.

 

Though the Paladin doies use Sworn Enemy - only to attack a totally different character right afterwards.

Yes, she uses it in this battle and then in the other but in the next perhaps not. It's unpredictable.

And - yes. When she uses it and gets engaged, she won't disengage to attack the enemy which she has chosen before.

 

I wonder if these AI-scripts are similar to those we had in NWN 1/2, DA:O etc.

If so, where is the problem to give us more options?

[abaris]

 

I wonder if these AI-scripts are similar to those we had in NWN 1/2, DA:O etc.

If so, where is the problem to give us more options?

 

 

To be fair, there's a lot of nostalgia involved when it comes to DA:O. I used to order them to take potions when certain stats fell and if that happened too frequently for the cooldown, they just got stuck in that animation. Switching between melee and ranged also didn't work so well. I had Leiliana doing nothing but switching back and forth in some encounters.

[AnjyBelle]

 

 

I wonder if these AI-scripts are similar to those we had in NWN 1/2, DA:O etc.

If so, where is the problem to give us more options?

 

 

To be fair, there's a lot of nostalgia involved when it comes to DA:O. I used to order them to take potions when certain stats fell and if that happened too frequently for the cooldown, they just got stuck in that animation. Switching between melee and ranged also didn't work so well. I had Leiliana doing nothing but switching back and forth in some encounters.

 

I know what you mean. But that's not because of the script, you just forgot to define her target, once she switched to melee or ranged.

Thus, the script became "stuck", which might be considered as a small glitch in it.

 

In regard of nostalgia:

DA:O was 2008, NWN 2 was 2006 and NWN 1 was 2002. All had good AI-scripts

(NWN 1 thx to Tony K., who contributed a lot for NWN 2, too)

 

But let's stay at PoE please

 

Did someone ever notice a monk using her force of anguish (FoA)? I always must trigger it manually, although the monk's health is down, she is surrounded and will undoubtedly die in a few seconds. With the use of FoA two or three times the problem is solved.

Hard to understand why basics like that aren't working.

Edited September 8, 2015 by AnjyBelle

[AnjyBelle]

I just posted this in the bug section:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/81956-ai-bug/

Edited September 9, 2015 by AnjyBelle

[synfrei]

"Ghosts" (in the expansion) have a spell which can "skyjack" your charakter wich moves him a lot away from the group...gladly so far they only "skyjacked" my tank who is not in danger when they doing it...

[abaris]

Yes, only that's not what is happening. The characters go for a hike under their own steam. Sometimes I manage to catch them before they're doing something suicidal. But when you're otherwise engaged with a rather challenging encounter, it's easily missed.

 

Btw, I noticed it with the foe AI too. Only once, so I can't quite lay my finger on the issue. But it happened with one of the bounty quests, where you have to hunt down a slaver and his minions. Two of them stormed off as if they were to engage Durance, but they ran past him and into the fog. Only after all the other enemies were down did they return to take a beating.

[AnjyBelle]

"Ghosts" (in the expansion) have a spell which can "skyjack" your charakter wich moves him a lot away from the group...gladly so far they only "skyjacked" my tank who is not in danger when they doing it...

Perhaps. But the spiders in Lle a Rhemen are certainly no Ghosts

[Adam Brennecke]

With the aggressive behavior, the AI will actively look for targets to attack within a 20m radius. It might not be tuned correctly for the fog of war, so I'll pass it on to the QA team to investigate. 

 

If you have feedback on particular packages (such as the Barbarian and Paladin) please be more detailed in the circumstances where you think they should have done one thing and they did something else instead. We can look at why the AI is picking one thing over the other to see if there are ways to fine tune the package to more appropriate behavior. 

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[Adam Brennecke]

Also, this would be better suited for the bug sub forum. QA doesn't actively look in this sub forum. 

[abaris]

I didn't post it in the bugs forum because I'm unable to produce a save, not knowing beforehand where it happens.

 

One instance I described above, was on level 7 of the endless paths. The devil set to cautious/defensive and Zoua to disruptor/defensive. The devil was the first one to take off, right after the entrance, at the start of fighting the first group of elementals. She had a ranged weapon equipped and ran off the whole length of the corridor to engage the occupants of one of the round rooms there.

 

The second one was Zoua, who disengaged to run off to one of the round rooms.

[AnjyBelle]

Also, this would be better suited for the bug sub forum. QA doesn't actively look in this sub forum. 

I posted a link there to see a screenshot I made some minutes ago.

 

Unfortunately I am not allowed to paste directly in this forum, for whatever reasons.

Edited September 10, 2015 by AnjyBelle

[Killyox]

Tbh I got all on passive with defending when attacked and sometimes turn it off

 

Much prefered by me. But even I did notice it few times.