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spardeous

The problem with tanking in PoE

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Is that the only way to tank is through high deflection.

Minimum damage should be brought way down, or there should be abilities/talents to significantly lower it to near 0 and significantly raise DR.

Deflection tank would be better in low to mid-high range encounters - disadvantage would be death from big strong enemies.
DR tank would be better in high end encounters and boss battles - disadvantage would be death by 1000 papercuts.

People keep making arguments against the notion of a tank role, but what other option is there? On lightly armored characters, deflection buffs don't last long enough to make them worthwhile in most fights, combine that with their relatively low END and enemies who will suicidally rush to engage them, and you have the makings of an insta-gib situation. Equipping everyone in heavy armor would just be silly, and using doorways/narrow hallway tactics to prevent engagement is already silly.

My wizards(Main+Aloth) are routinely slaughtered by enemies within a few seconds of engagement. Both are in medium armor. Hallway tactics, and intentionally avoiding engagement until Eder/Pellegrina have significantly damaged enemies are the only ways I've been able to circumvent this, but they are both rinky-dink solutions.

Edited by spardeous

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middest/3d half in the game you get up to 3 speed boots, which allows me to get my mage, my priest and my rogue out of every close comat situation very easily :-)

Edited by synfrei

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You need better positioning and CC. I have no problem keeping my squishies alive in POTD. And in the event that one gets focused down early there are numerous ways to revive so it's not a huge deal if you're properly prepared. 

 

Sounds like you want the game to be a tank and spank MMO. No thanks. 

Edited by PIP-Clownboy

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middest/3d half in the game you get up to 3 speed boots, which allows me to get my mage, my priest and my rogue out of every close comat situation very easily :-)

What this guy said.  I have a Paladin and my new favorite aura since the expansion is Zealous Charge for that exact reason.  It gives my party extreme mobility and lets my Paladin fly around the battlefield and engage enemies that decide to run against squishies (I am playing on PoTD and Trial of Iron so no save scumming).  Obviously you are losing out on accuracy because you don't have Zealous Focus but there are other ways to get accuracy and for that matter there are other ways to get movement speed without a Paladin.  Basically Mobility mobility mobility.  You see too many enemies and your back line going to get flooded...retreat and reset the line.  I also have started running 3 melee cause of this. 

 

Secondly, you can make your tank play offensively and respectable even with defensive stats and talents.  For instance my tank who has 12 Might, 14 Con, 16 Int and 16 Resolve still performs well offensively by using a single handed weapon a lot of the time.  It makes up for his low accuracy and actually tricks enemy AI into thinking he has lower deflection.  With Flames of Devotion and a good weapon like Ravenwing (flaming Lash enchant) My best crit is 70 not bad at all for a TANK with 12 Might.  So he has a respectable offensive presence while still doing a great job of tanking.

 

Lastly, if you have good accuracy the enemy AI will not want to break engagement as it does not want to take big engagement attacks.  So more + engagement talents and items with a very good accuracy will hold your line solid.  It has been working great for me for 7 levels.  I set my front like with my PC Paladin, Pallegina (tank), Eder Fighter DPS.  nothing gets through that as I have 7 Engagement slots between them and high accuracy.  An A fighter speced for damage wrecks like hes on Par with my rogue. 

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Have gun will travel.

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You need better positioning and CC. I have no problem keeping my squishies alive in POTD. And in the event that one gets focused down early there are numerous ways to revive so it's not a huge deal if you're properly prepared. 

 

Sounds like you want the game to be a tank and spank MMO. No thanks. 

That works until you're up against casters and they hit you with a debil. I'm most of the way through POTD and it seems that virtually every spell lands no matter what, unless it's Eder or Pellegrina. I've had no problems surviving encounters, but it's mostly through trial and error, figuring out the best spots to corral enemies or pulling them with the moving fireball spell.

 

Mainly, my suggestion centers around versatility, which is never a bad thing when it's promoting class diversity. I still think it's bad game design(and suicidal behavior) that enemies will run right past front-line fighters and cut themselves off from their back-line fighters, leaving their light combatants to die. Animals do not even act this way.

 

Your comment about 'tank-n-spank' means very little. Establishing rank has been a thing since the Bard's Tale(mechanically enforced tanking) or probably even before that.

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Enemies don't suicidally rush your back-line if your front-line engages and has enough damage/accuracy to make eating disengagement attacks a bad idea. If you're going for a fully defensive front-line with poor offense, don't be surprised if the enemies disengage without a care.

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With the upgrade to CON, CON goes a lot farther for tanking, at least for high END classes.  If you get your CON over 20 and get some good regen effects going, you're to be pretty tough to kill, even if your deflection is only decent rather than amazing, although you still need to be careful to avoid flanking and too may negative status effects.

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Enemies don't suicidally rush your back-line if your front-line engages and has enough damage/accuracy to make eating disengagement attacks a bad idea. If you're going for a fully defensive front-line with poor offense, don't be surprised if the enemies disengage without a care.

exactly.  And you can still have defensive characters but as I explained play offensively with your accuracy.


Have gun will travel.

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Enemies don't suicidally rush your back-line if your front-line engages and has enough damage/accuracy to make eating disengagement attacks a bad idea. If you're going for a fully defensive front-line with poor offense, don't be surprised if the enemies disengage without a care.

exactly.  And you can still have defensive characters but as I explained play offensively with your accuracy.

 

 

There's still this mindset that you can't tank effectively without maxing deflection. Players need to adjust and re-assess what makes a good tank in version 2.0.

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First here is what I consider tanking - The ability to establish and enforce a melee engagement zone which is separate from your ranged attackers.

 

I'm not up on the differences between a tank, an off tank, a DPS tank, or a DPS.

 

1.) To be able to establish the zone or frontline you need to be in melee combat.

 

2,) To be able to maintain the zone or frontline you need to be able to survive long enough for the enemy to die. For this you need a combination of mitigation - endurance, DR, healing, regen, crit>hit conversions, hit>graze conversions - and avoidance - hard CC (stun, paralyze, prone) , deflection, will, reflex, and fortitude. Damage that you can avoid is the best as there is a minimum of 20% bleed through that will eventually drop you.

 

3.) To be able to enforce the zone or frontline you need to have enough accuracy to hit the targets and enough damage to make the enemies afraid to disengage for fear of getting hit with a hard disengagement attack. Additional engagements can let you hold additional enemies.

 

A Paladin (main character is better since Faith and Conviction doesn't scale with NPC) with F&C, good Might, sword and shield style, superior deflection (only 3 less deflection than cautious attack and doesn't get the -20% attack rate) will have the best deflection and defenses. Add in NPC paladin for dual auras - accuracy and the DR one - and the ability to cast reinforcing exhortations for +25 deflection on each other as well as two lay on hands uses each. Throw in hold the line (jury is still out on whether additional engagements are worth anything) and these two can hold at least four enemies and be able to handle them while also being able to assist the team with multiple auras and exhortations. With a ring and a good shield you'll have about 100 deflection, drop a reinforcing exhortation and you get 125+ which will be noticeable.

 

Add in a ranger and their pet and you get an accurate, consistent single target damage dealer and a disposable tank. Pets are better now and with two paladins around the pet should be able to stay vertical.

 

These three will be able to maintain a frontline and survive, and are able to self support their actions leaving the other 3 characters up to you. Have one be another melee spec'd for damage (Eder dual wielding sabres can work) and you should have no problem maintaining a front while your other three can focus fire and apply CC safely from range.

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Enemies don't suicidally rush your back-line if your front-line engages and has enough damage/accuracy to make eating disengagement attacks a bad idea. If you're going for a fully defensive front-line with poor offense, don't be surprised if the enemies disengage without a care.

exactly.  And you can still have defensive characters but as I explained play offensively with your accuracy.

 

 

There's still this mindset that you can't tank effectively without maxing deflection. Players need to adjust and re-assess what makes a good tank in version 2.0.

 

 

 

 

all you need for deflection is resolve now, there is no reason not to have high might, especially on a paladin with their heals.

 

barbarian would like to go min might, but then again it will have ae knockdowns or stuns then.

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Enemies don't suicidally rush your back-line if your front-line engages and has enough damage/accuracy to make eating disengagement attacks a bad idea. If you're going for a fully defensive front-line with poor offense, don't be surprised if the enemies disengage without a care.

exactly.  And you can still have defensive characters but as I explained play offensively with your accuracy.

 

 

There's still this mindset that you can't tank effectively without maxing deflection. Players need to adjust and re-assess what makes a good tank in version 2.0.

 

 

 

 

all you need for deflection is resolve now, there is no reason not to have high might, especially on a paladin with their heals.

 

barbarian would like to go min might, but then again it will have ae knockdowns or stuns then.

 

A Paladins Lay on Hands is actually much stronger with a 18 INT over 18 Might.  You also need CON now since you cant stack deflection and never get hit.  You will get hit now.  I am not saying dump might cause that would be stupid especially in 2.0.  What I am saying is that if a Paladin wants good support abilities (his bread and butter) he needs a good Int.  Not saying he needs 18 but if you want to MELEE and hit your backline with auras you need at least a base of 15 + Items.  Now you could just be a better melee guy and provide auras only to your frontline/mid range and take a 10 int.  That saying your lay on hands will be worse with a 18 might then an 18 int because it is a heal over time effect.  I have tested this A LOT.

 

I think Paladin has one of the largest stat spreads in the game.


Have gun will travel.

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I guess with a tight front line you could bring your range in closer.  Take a 14 or 12 int.


Have gun will travel.

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Heres the solution for all tanking 90 percent trash fights in the game and how to deal with the new AI. Eliminate your weaknesses have your backline all wear plate. Have one distraction in your team like barbarian, rogue, ranger with a decent con score not wear plate but have them use a draining/stunning weapon so they will be annoying to take down for the enemy. DONE now the smart AI goes after the right people they are ****ed because the odds are stacked against them. Your backline is tanky and with defensive spells can become super tanky and that one distraction guy is a pain in the ass to take down.

 

As for bosses or fights where there is a crap ton of burst damage. The tanking solution is have your 1 tank guy with deflection and high hp to go in first to take in all the damage. With 2 wizard you should double up on casting your CC, spells what wizards are good for. When the melee starts this is where it gets annoying because lot of wizard spells have friendly fire. Obsidian should get rid of friendly fire on all damage spells imo its a dumb mechanic where some aoe damage spells hurt your team while others do not.

Edited by Failion

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