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[CLASS BUILD] Lady of Pain - High-speed, heavy-armored DPS Fighter


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Well Hours of St Rumbalt would be the go-to for crti dmg on a 2her right? Which is a great version of this build. But I think that zero recovery is very difficult / impossible to achieve without the attack speed bonus on BotEP. Not sure.

 

Also, even with BotEP if you side with Doemenels, Durgan it, get Dungeon Delver, that's still 120% dmg per crit....and you crit a crapton. BotEP will normally be better dps over the course of an entire fight but if you love big numbers(I get it!) then go Hours.

 

P.S. Man I'm struggling to get BotEP right now....I might need to come back later on my fighter. Think he is level 9 atm, maybe almost 10 and paths is starting to whoop me around a bit.

Edited by Mocker22
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You can't exactly get 0 recovery with Hours of St Rumbalt, but you can get very close (1.7% before DEX) if you disable Vulnerable Attack and wear Scale armor instead of plate. With Armored Grace and Durgan Steel, penalty from the armor is erased; then you have

 

1.5 * 1.15 * 1.15 = 98.3% reduction on your recovery time from DAOM, Durgan Steel, and Gauntlets of Swift Action.

 

IMHO, the extra damage isn't worth the loss in DR; besides, you'd lose Vulnerable Attack too, so that's no DR bypass versus 10 with the BotEP.

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Btw, I didn't call that variant "Glass of Pain" because it's a glass cannon (which it isn't); I did because Pain is the only drink she serves :p

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Just wondering : if you reach 0 attack recovery, there is a difference in attack speed between 1h weapon and 2h weapon?

I remember that a non-fast weapon in 1h have 30f attack + 60f recovery

In 2 weapon become 30f attack + 30f recovery. So the 2 weapon mode is kinda "faster" until you reach 0 recovery, in wich speed is equal.

But the speed of a 2h weapon ( es great sword) is the same of a sabre? In the case if you manage to reach 0 recovery with a 2hand weapon like in your " 0 recovery variant" you do the same number of attack every minute as using 2 sabres? In that case go for 2 weapon style have no meaning...

 

If you can achieve 0 recovery, there is no difference in speed between any "average" speed one handed weapon and "slow" two handed weapon - those labels are misleading since they are the same speed.  For that matter, there is no difference between a weapon + shield, dual weapons or two-hander if you have no recovery.  The reason to dual wield is that it is easier to reach zero recovery.  Without dual wielding, you have to drink potions all the time in order to have any chance to achieve zero recovery.

 

A great option, if you want more defense, is to just use a one handed weapon and a shield since that is the same speed as dual wielding anyways with no recovery (just don't use one with bash).  Or, you can drop the shield and get the inherent +12 accuracy bonus for using a one-hander with no shield.  I suspect that setup could result in more damage than a two-hander because of the additional crits the accuracy bonus provides.

 

There are many one-handed weapons that are nearly as strong as a 2-hander (some arguable stronger due to enchantments).  For example, the new soulbound dagger spits out bouncing fireballs which do very high amounts of fire damage.  I have seen it do hundreds of points of damage bouncing back and forth between enemies until they are all dead.  With no attack recovery (and no other weapon stealing attack time), the firebug procs quite frequently.  The downside is that it is not as reliable.  Sometimes it goes off over and over and sometimes never goes off during a battle if you get unlucky.

 

I tried comparing the dagger with a two-hander (tidefall) and I seemed to kill things quicker on average with the dagger at zero recovery because of the firebug.  I didn't do the math, but it certainly felt a lot more damaging overall.  

 

I am currently working on a zero-recovery barbarian who attacks with nothing but a single dagger.  The firebug chance, I've heard, is checked with each carnage hit.  If completely surrounded by enemies (often the case on hard difficulty), firebug will happen with almost every 0.5 second attack if that is true.

Edited by Braven
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Or, you can drop the shield and get the inherent +12 accuracy bonus for using a one-hander with no shield.  I suspect that setup could result in more damage than a two-hander because of the additional crits the accuracy bonus provides.

 

It depends on the build. If you have sufficient Accuracy to crit, an extra +12 isn't going to make a difference—once you crit, it doesn't matter if you breached the threshold by 1 or by 100. This build in particular, once fully buffed, has an Accuracy score of 103–148 (30 base, +0–+45 level, +6 Weapon Focus, +12 Superb weapon, +20 Perception, +20 Devotions for the Faithful, +20 Disciplined Barrage, -5 Savage Attack), which is enough to crit most creatures all the time. For creatures with higher defenses, she's got 40% hit-to-crit conversion (20% from Durgan Steel, 20% from Dire Blessing), and all that without taking debuff into account (e.g. -10 Deflection when enemies are knocked Prone, or -8 Deflection when enemies are hit by another party member's Aspirant's Mark.) In this context, +12 Accuracy from wielding a one-hander isn't as attractive considering that you miss out on a higher base damage which gets the most out of the percentage increases.

 

 

On a mildly related note, in order to reach 0 recovery with a two-hander while wearing plate and using Vulnerable Attack, you must use a weapon with Speed; the game offers two two-handers with said enchantment: Blade of the Endless Paths (estoc), and Llawran's Stick (quarterstaff). The latter isn't very special at all.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Yeah, the only time I could see the +12 acc being useful for getting crits is Kith type mobs in WM2, which all have 110-140 or so defense. Bit of a pain to rely on a crt based plan without caster support against crap like that.

 

As far as 2handers go, since we can now Lash the Blade, it's likely the best 2hander. I'd have to do some napkin math to see if the extra 25% from Tidefall could beat the blades extra 5 damag3 +20% recover speed, but I doubt it. From what I can tell, weapon type damage doesn't come up enough to really be a worthwhile weapon trait, especially compared to just 5 extra damage a swing. (Which is basically a .3 mod on every hit).

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Regression bug? It was fixed in 3.0. How did you test it?

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Yesterday night.

Bittercuts in 1 h and normale sabre in the other. Both upgraded to exceptional quality. Spirit of decay talent on line.

In the inventory window the DMG for both sabres was 20-30. The bonus displaced was strenght and weapon specialization. Same bonus and same DMG for both swords, no +20%/or something for bittercut. In combat both deals same DMG, no coorode lash or something added to bittercuts, she just do the damge in corrode instead of slash. Lash effect added: burn for normal sabre and corrode for bittercuts. The lash did for both swords 25% of the DMG, no enanche of the corrosive One. So i claim it doesn't work at all'. Probaby is a collaterali effect of the druid elemental DMG removed from spell or something...

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The extra damage from Spirit of Decay is not supposed to show up in the character record as it only applies if the weapon is dealing Corrode damage, which doesn't necessarily happen all of the time. It is also not supposed to be a lash. Your testing method wasn't the right one :) To see if it works you need to hire a merc with 10 MIG and no damage-boosting talents or abilities, take Spirit of Decay, and attack a party member whose Corrode DR is lower than their Slash DR to see if your minimum damage ever drops below 13 * 1.2 = 15.6 on a regular hit. If it does, then the talent is not applying.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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I asked a moderator ;)

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Yup. However, keep in mind that the faster you attack, the higher your DPS loss from enemies' DR will be. Hence, packing DR bypass should be a priority after maxing out speed (of course this makes no difference against low-DR targets, but if you change weapon from an estoc to something else, you'll lose the DR bypass thus making Vulnerable Attack more important.)

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Ok so one thing I absolutely don't understand is, you wrote that Dexterity is of little use to the 0-recovery build, but here's the thing: I thought dexterity contributed to reaching 0-recovery?  If it doesn't, what effect does Dexterity actually have on the recovery period?  Kinda confused.

 

For example I know that some builds such as the Ranger Stormcaller build and the Druid Thundercat build advise getting as much dexterity as possible, and I'm struggling to understand why this is the case.  I thought Dex just simply reduced the recovery period.

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