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Always the same platitudes about Bethseda being repeated again and again.

 

 

 

That said - I don't mean it as an insult, I enjoy their games.. But I think it's a fair point of critique.

 

You don't think that statement could be seen as arrogant considering how many thousands of people use consoles and don't Mod there Bethesda games and yet love the games with a passion?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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The recipe for FO4 just leaked on Kotaku:

 

2 Tbsp of Call of Duty: Ghosts

2 Sticks of Bioshock Infinite

4 Tbsp of Fallout 3

400g of Mass Effect
Pour in half a liter of Rule of Cool, mix well

Set oven to 400 degrees Fahrenheit, let bake for 3 years

 

Be careful though, cause I clearly burned mine.

Edited by Longknife

"The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him."

 

 

Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?

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G1qBuc2.jpg

 

Kittens confirmed for F4. Sorry Blackisle, Obsidian, but this is going to be the best Fallout game ever!!1

This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.

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You don't think that statement could be seen as arrogant considering how many thousands of people use consoles and don't Mod there Bethesda games and yet love the games with a passion?

 

You can be as insulted as you want, your feelings have no impact on the validity of the critique. Offer me a counterpoint and I'll consider your opinion, from a discussion standpoint I couldn't really care less about how what I say makes you feel. Especially not if my critique is "you could do better, but if not I'm ok with that".

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Fortune favors the bald.

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Always the same platitudes about Bethseda being repeated again and again.

 

 

 

That said - I don't mean it as an insult, I enjoy their games.. But I think it's a fair point of critique.

 

You don't think that statement could be seen as arrogant considering how many thousands of people use consoles and don't Mod there Bethesda games and yet love the games with a passion?

 

 

Thousands of people like 50 Shades of Grey, that doesn't mean its not rubbish

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Fallout has never been strong in the story department. Making a good story becomes very difficult if you give the player a large amount of freedom to do what they want.

 

Fallout 3 may not have been as strong in the traditional RPG elements as FO1 and FO2, but the story level was pretty similar.

Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
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Fallout has never been strong in the story department. Making a good story becomes very difficult if you give the player a large amount of freedom to do what they want.

 

Fallout 3 may not have been as strong in the traditional RPG elements as FO1 and FO2, but the story level was pretty similar.

 

If by "story" you mean the main story line then maybe (aside from Fallout 3 and Tactics, which were just meh to say the least). If you mean writing in general, then gods have mercy on your soul.

Edited by Aoyagi
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Not crazy about a whole set of skill tree prerequisites for perks. I like it better when it is mostly (because there certainly were prerequisites in FO3) a matter of picking a flavour you like on level up. With a skill tree you are locked out of most of the top tier except the one you are at. If top tier perks also involve new or interesting mechanics, you are locked out of lets say 3/4 of the full gameplay experience. Lots of RPG type games have left me with this sense that it would be more fun to throw the rules out the window and balance the difficulty another way.

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Na na  na na  na na  ...

greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

That is all.

 

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Not crazy about a whole set of skill tree prerequisites for perks. I like it better when it is mostly (because there certainly were prerequisites in FO3) a matter of picking a flavour you like on level up. With a skill tree you are locked out of most of the top tier except the one you are at. If top tier perks also involve new or interesting mechanics, you are locked out of lets say 3/4 of the full gameplay experience. Lots of RPG type games have left me with this sense that it would be more fun to throw the rules out the window and balance the difficulty another way.

 

One problem I had with Skyrim's system is that sometimes I was forced to choose two perks I didn't like to get to the one I did.

Edited by WDeranged
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You don't think that statement could be seen as arrogant considering how many thousands of people use consoles and don't Mod there Bethesda games and yet love the games with a passion?

 

You can be as insulted as you want, your feelings have no impact on the validity of the critique. Offer me a counterpoint and I'll consider your opinion, from a discussion standpoint I couldn't really care less about how what I say makes you feel. Especially not if my critique is "you could do better, but if not I'm ok with that".

 

Oh I'm not insulted at all as I use Mods extensively. My question was how others would feel  

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Fallout has never been strong in the story department. Making a good story becomes very difficult if you give the player a large amount of freedom to do what they want.

 

Fallout 3 may not have been as strong in the traditional RPG elements as FO1 and FO2, but the story level was pretty similar.

 

Poppy****. Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout: New Vegas all did exceedingly well in the story department. FO3 not so much but hey, Bethesda.

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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Poppy****. Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout: New Vegas all did exceedingly well in the story department. FO3 not so much but hey, Bethesda.

 

I believe some Beth fans somehow cannot grasp non-linear story that isn't dosed to them using various wow-moments. To directly quote from a discussion today:

 

You mean New Vegas? The game that was literally Oblivion with guns? Well not quite. Oblivion had a good story. New Vegas had a boring story you sleep walk through. From chasing Benny to the build up to the battle of Hoover dam all I could think of was: let's just get this over with. The only redeeming factors for New Vegas was the companions and the DLC, and the DLC wasn't anything special compared to Fallout 3's DLC outside of Old World Blues.

 

Bethesda is just giving the majority it wants, it seems. Too bad it's not Fallout, heh.

Edited by Aoyagi
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Bethesda fans are like cult followers.

Oh great, the dog can't even die. Did they hotfix original Fallouts with unkillable Dogmeat once they got the rights to the games?

Hate the living, love the dead.

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Bethesda fans are like cult followers.

 

Oh great, the dog can't even die. Did they hotfix original Fallouts with unkillable Dogmeat once they got the rights to the games?

 

to be fair, what fans are not like cult followers?

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Fallout has never been strong in the story department. Making a good story becomes very difficult if you give the player a large amount of freedom to do what they want.

 

Fallout 3 may not have been as strong in the traditional RPG elements as FO1 and FO2, but the story level was pretty similar.

 

I think that there's just a lot of people who want to dump on Bethesda because that's what the majority seem to want to do.  I played Fallout and Fallout 2 and Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas and Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel.  The stinker of a story was not Fallout 3 in that group.  Fallout & Fallout 2 have more narrative railroading (due to the timers) than either of the others.  At the end of the day the biggest sin Fallout 3 did was force a narrative choice at the end rather than let the choice come about based on how the character had played.  The rest of the game was - IMO - pretty fun.

Edited by Amentep
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Oh great, the dog can't even die. Did they hotfix original Fallouts with unkillable Dogmeat once they got the rights to the games?

Dog will sacrifice himself at the end to save us all. Or is romanceable.

 

to be fair, what fans are not like cult followers?

WoW fans seem to spend their time hating the game.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Fallout & Fallout 2 have more narrative railroading (due to the timers) than either of the others.

 

Weak. The timer in Fallout 2 was virtually nonexistent, and the one in Fallout 1 could be extended and even stopped altogether IIRC. Regardless, timers have nothing to do with railroading a story. 

 

There was no narrative choice in Fallout 3 in the main story line. And other than that, the only notable choice was blowing up a city built around a nuke for some inexplicable reason for fun. Really hard choice, huh.

 

The game was fun, but the writing was so cringe-worthy that I couldn't bear myself to finishing it for the second time. :D

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Fallout has never been strong in the story department. Making a good story becomes very difficult if you give the player a large amount of freedom to do what they want.

 

Fallout 3 may not have been as strong in the traditional RPG elements as FO1 and FO2, but the story level was pretty similar.

I strongly disagree. Fallout: New Vegas and its DLC's had some of the best storylines I've seen in a video game, with complicated, believable characters, factions and events that were genuinely immersive and made you think about your character's place in the world, their motivations, and the consequences of their actions. Fallout and Fallout 2, while not as complex in their narrative as FNV, were still light years ahead of F3 in terms of writing and immersion, not to mention choice and consequence.

 

That kind of narrative depth has always been missing from Bethesda's games because, from what I've seen from them through the years, that's just not what they are interested in. And everything I've seen of Fallout 4 so far only solidifies that impression further -- the dialog wheel, the absolutely cringe-worthy, cliche, juvenile tongue-in-cheek dialog, the even greater focus on "you-can-do-whatever-you-want" sandbox gameplay... They are playing to their strengths by consciously moving the franchise away from its role-playing roots and turning it into an open world sandbox shooter with RPG lite elements, a minecraftian build-your-own-base system and a "do whatever the hell you want" gear customization system. Which is great for the majority of their fans, who love all that stuff, but not so much for those of us who have been Fallout fans since the late 90's.

Shadow Thief of the Obsidian Order

My Backloggery

 

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Bethesda's ability to craft a truly intriguing plot has gone downhill since Morrowind but after Skyrim I thought their prose had improved dramatically.  Kinda looks like it's taken another nosedive now though...admittedly I'm mostly basing this on a couple of lines from Codsworth the robot, I do indeed plan to shoot him in the face.

 

I'm quite the Bethesda fanboi but I can't deny some things have me worried.  Not being able to see what my character is going to say before he says it is top of my list, at least in Fallout 3 I could avoid the derpiest lines but now it's constant russian roulette.

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