Can we get "rate of attack" as character stat for equiped weapons?

[player1]

Can we get rate of fire/attack as character stat for equiped weapons?

 

It would be really useful for gauging at glance how often some weapon equiped by some characters will attack/fire.

 

It should take into factor all properties that modify effective speed of attack for that character

*reload

*recovery

*dexterity

*"speed" of weapon

*any other bonuses

 

Currently, in my playthrough, when gauging weapons I need to manually test them out and count how quickly they attack. Like have two characters attack 3rd character, one with weapon I try to measure speed of and another with reference weapon. There really needs to be some "sane" in-game way of getting this info, without using ridiculus tests.

 

Edited May 31, 2015 by player1

[redneckdevil]

That would be a very good idea. This would also help strengthen the impressions of atributes by giving us easily access numerical data. RPGs are numbers games so by giving the player better access to the numerical data would help strengthen the players knowledge in the system.

Edited May 31, 2015 by redneckdevil

[player1]

And to clarify:

Plese do not implement DPS or similar stat instead, since those are too much situational (DR, grazes, chance to hit etc...), and thus unreliable to give proper info.

 

Let it be just attack rate of specific weapon when equiped on character, with everything factored in.

Edited May 31, 2015 by player1

[player1]

To add more on this idea.

 

While I think it is essential to show "rate of attack" stat in characters (in fact it would be my top enhancement request over anything else), there is idea how to show dps stat also, if needed.

 

Have advanced stat screen with DPS calculator. You would get there weapon damage rating and "rate of attack" stats and option to select target DR. After selecting target DR, you would be shown DPS rating for hits, grazes and critical hits.

[Tennisgolfboll]

Good idea.

[Arkh`Cthuul]

Agreed!

[nipsen]

Can we get rate of fire/attack as character stat for equiped weapons?

 

It would be really useful for gauging at glance how often some weapon equiped by some characters will attack/fire.

 

It should take into factor all properties that modify effective speed of attack for that character

*reload

*recovery

*dexterity

*"speed" of weapon

*any other bonuses

 

Currently, in my playthrough, when gauging weapons I need to manually test them out and count how quickly they attack. Like have two characters attack 3rd character, one with weapon I try to measure speed of and another with reference weapon. There really needs to be some "sane" in-game way of getting this info, without using ridiculus tests.

Well, what can I say. "We're" "terribly" "sorry", but that was actually taken out of the game because "everyone" in the beta "agreed", that "everyone" would be confused by character abilities that could potentially lead to "trap builds". Or, more specifically, that the rules would prevent you from gaining a flat bonus by boosting might while sacrificing ever other stat. Also, "everyone" thought that this dexterity stat should control movement speed, because having no stat control this - this was simply a fatal flaw in the formation micromanaging that "everyone" and every gamer does in every engagement. Really, how can you even accept the idea of a world where only each of the character classes move with relative speed to each other, rather than to also have individual acceleration worth potentially two pixels on the screen from minimum to maximum!??!!!!11elevenses111! Clearly, Obsidian did all things correctly in addressing this fatal flaw in PoE.

 

So in other words, the "majority" has already "spoken" on this, and we therefore got what we all wanted. And that's final. Because reasons. And 50 page reports full of bs. 

 

And if you don't like that, you're an unhinged loony. By definition. So do not complain further, or I will harass you with my multiple accounts at the rpg-codex.

Edited June 15, 2015 by nipsen

[player1]

^Eh.... what?

[Gfted1]

[nipsen]

^Eh.... what?

Long story short: Dexterity changed the character's attack rate early on in the beta. Basically, a percentage bonus based on the weapon's base attack speed. Making a quick fighter build with somewhat weak weapons a possibly very good build. As opposed to now, when that's not something you would try if you know how the rules work.

 

But yes, would perhaps be interesting to be able to tell how fast you can strike with a weapon. But since it really is set to the class variables, and the weapons are (as far as I know) in three different categories, seeing the actual stat doesn't give you any information you can use. Other than being able to see that some classes get slightly better bonuses for lighter weapons than other classes.

 

*shrug*

[Bubbles]

I think implementing rate of attack numbers would gravely complicate the game in its current state, since you would end up with a lot of confused players wondering why a "+20% attack speed" talent only gives them somewhere between 8 and 14% extra attack speed instead, depending on a host of other factors. At least right now they don't get flooded with bug reports on the subject -- ignorance being bliss and all that.

[nipsen]

...right. A base stat that says "-10%" to attack speed.... who can tell what that would mean to "confused players"?

[player1]

But idea would be to show derived stat. When you put recovery, weapon spped, reaload, dex bonuses and everything else in the mix.

It is in no way more confusing then current estimated damage per hit that is shown in the character sheet.

 

And is actually very useful infomation. Then based on damage per hit and number of attacks in some period of time you can gauge how much your weapon is effective based on DR it attacks.

 

For example, if rate of attack is very fast, but damage per attack low, it would probably be pretty poor against high DR.

But you do need these kind information to get to the conclustion. Just knowing that some weapon is fast or average on its own is not enough.

 

In fact, is can even be misleading. For example single fast weapon when dual-wielded is attacking less often when when used alone. Or that two handed weapons are in no way slower then average single handed weapons used alone. Or that only proper way to get rate of fire info for guns and crossbows is to do speeds tests manually, due to speed being affected also by reload.

[nipsen]

Yep. Not just misleading, but false. Since damage against dr or critical hit-rate isn't possible to calculate to an absolute number without knowing the monster's stats.

 

But wait. Are you sure you're not just a "confused player", though? Rather than someone who knows basic math?

[Fardragon]

I think implementing rate of attack numbers would gravely complicate the game in its current state, since you would end up with a lot of confused players wondering why a "+20% attack speed" talent only gives them somewhere between 8 and 14% extra attack speed instead, depending on a host of other factors. At least right now they don't get flooded with bug reports on the subject -- ignorance being bliss and all that.

Or you could have an option to hide the information. Call it the "I'm an idiot" button.

[MunoValente]

The lack of transparency of attack speed is probably my single biggest disappointment with the game's systems, without it I'm just guessing about how effective my attacks are rather than making an informed decision, there is really no good reason to not include it.

[player1]

Yep. Not just misleading, but false. Since damage against dr or critical hit-rate isn't possible to calculate to an absolute number without knowing the monster's stats.

Thats why attack rate is part of request, and not DPS.

Atrack rate only depends from player stats.

 

Of course, as said in one of my previous posts I am not against DPS calculator, as advanced option, which could calculate DPS based on some target DR value, for all hits, all grazes or crits.

Heck, it could have target deflection parameter also and then calculate actual DPS bases on hits projections.

 

But anyway attack rate only depends from players stats, buffs and weapons equiped and as such it would make sense to see it in characters stats, sinmilarly you already see projected damage for single hit for equipped weapons.

Edited June 16, 2015 by player1

[MunoValente]

Attack rate is the most important thing to know, but a "base DPS" might be good to know as well; New Vegas included DPS on weapons, enough it had DT and crtiicals; the displayed DPS was basically rate of fire multiplied by base damage, assuming all hits and no criticals and it was useful to know, even though it was obviously not the actual damage you were dealing.

[player1]

The problem with "base DPS" is that in 98% of cases is misleading, since almost no enemies have DR of 0.

And it would just show that fast weapons are superior to anything, while in practice those same fast weapons quickly lose effectiveness the more DR enemies have,

[anameforobsidian]

I absolutely agree that a rate of attack speed would help immensely.  The difference between crossbow and bow calculations is enough to give a headache.

[nipsen]

 

But anyway attack rate only depends from players stats, buffs and weapons equiped and as such it would make sense to see it in characters stats, sinmilarly you already see projected damage for single hit for equipped weapons.

 

Mhm. And your suggestion makes all kinds of sense, of course.