Heritage Hill Tower Level 1: Infinite combat (can dev's please respond whether this is intentional)

[Omnicron]

Hi!

 

I am trying to kill as few enemies as possible and I found one are which does not allow you to exit combat (the only are I am aware of after a full run of the game with a stealth approach)

 

Here is my savegame and a number of screenshots to clearly explain the issue.

 

Even if there is no fix for the problem I just want to know the following:

 

Is this intended?

 

If yes: Why?

If No: Is there a plan to fix it at a later date

 

that is all I want to know I do not feel it is urgent or unfair, but it seem inconsistent with the behavior of other areas where my tactic to escape the encounter would work:

 

Here is the problem and how to reproduce it:

 

This is the position of the enemies before combat

 

 

 

Summon Animat to distract:

 

 

Run to space which is safe from enemy aggro using Shadowing Beyond

 

Now once the animat dies you can wait there for an hour if you like, combat will not end until you kill all 5 of them. I have tried various combinations and it only clears when all 5 are dead. They do not run after you, you can sit there quite safely.

 

 

 

I went back to have a look with Shadowing Beyond and they are in their default positions:

 

Can someone please indicate whether this behavior is intentional or whether it is considered a problem? Thank you!

 

Here is the savegame: https://www.sendspace.com/file/400pez

Edited May 21, 2015 by Omnicron

[Omnicron]

Hi there, 

 

To the best of my knowledge, yes, this is intentional. 

 

Thanks for your feedback.

 Thank you.

 

I will consider the question answered then

 

It is fairly unique behavior for an area. No other area except the last boss does this, I mean not even the 2nd level of the tower locks you into infinite combat. So I find it a bit strange, but ok

 

Also @ Aea, I cannot tell you how many times combat has ended for me while enemies are in sight. It can be rather annoying because Shadowing beyond ends when you are no longer in combat. Combat also ended randomly with enemies still being in sight with charm dynamics when going solo cipher, basically you can see them fighting but since nothing is engaging you combat ends, and so does the charm, restarting combat, this will also happen when you pull mobs into one another and the encounter will end for you but they will keep fighting even if you stay in visual range. The rules for when combat ends seems to differ on a per-encounter bases. Anything from what I described here, to your situation, to the 1st level of the tower. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by Omnicron

[peddroelm]

So kill them weaklings, problem solved !  NEXT !

 

Oh wait ! I DON'T want to kill them (anyone) ! (you should probably mention the context where this becomes an issue - pacifist RECORD runs (relevant to perhaps 0.01% of the player base)

Edited May 21, 2015 by peddroelm

[Aea]

By my understanding, staying in combat is more a result of proximity to hostiles rather than visual range of hostiles. It's perfectly possible to be 'in combat' with an enemy on the other side of a solid wall without them actually seeing you or engaging you in any way (I discovered this when working on strats to get around Adra Dragon), so you are probably too close to the skeleton mage on the other side of the wall to leave combat. If this is the approach you want to take, you will either have to put more distance between you or find a way to lure the enemies out of that room so you can establish the necessary distance to break encounter. If you have a move speed enhancer on hand, you can try to make all the skeletons chase you to the east side of the tower, then pop Shadowing Beyond and run for the stairs. Whether this is as Obsidian wanted it to be or simply what they decided to do to avoid encounter breaks due to sketchy pathing or problems with visibility I can't say.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Aea

[Omnicron]

So kill them weaklings, problem solved !  NEXT !

 

Oh wait ! I DON'T want to kill them (anyone) ! (you should probably mention the context where this becomes an issue - pacifist RECORD runs (relevant to perhaps 0.01% of the player base)

 

Whats with the attitude? I never said I am stuck, I never said I cannot progress, I already completed the Record Pacifist run with these kills included. I was quite detailed about the fact that I can kill them. I am just testing the game design and what it allows for and this particular floor seems inconsistent with the rest of the game. I did not ask for a fix, I was just curious whether this is a bug or is intentional. I really respect all your test posts and I find them very insightful, but don't know why you felt the need to respond like that.

 

Edit: While I did ask whether they plan to fix it it was a question of curiosity about whether they consider it a problem, I am not complaining and I am not demanding a fix because I cannot play the game the way it was meant to be played, it clearly is not an issue for whatever approach you choose to take. I was confused by the inconsistency and wondered about obsidian's opinion, that is all. I regard the irregularities in your test results far more pressing and have been confused why they have not been acknowledged. 

 

By my understanding, staying in combat is more a result of proximity to hostiles rather than visual range of hostiles. It's perfectly possible to be 'in combat' with an enemy on the other side of a solid wall without them actually seeing you or engaging you in any way (I discovered this when working on strats to get around Adra Dragon), so you are probably too close to the skeleton mage on the other side of the wall to leave combat. If this is the approach you want to take, you will either have to put more distance between you or find a way to lure the enemies out of that room so you can establish the necessary distance to break encounter. If you have a move speed enhancer on hand, you can try to make all the skeletons chase you to the east side of the tower, then pop Shadowing Beyond and run for the stairs. Whether this is as Obsidian wanted it to be or simply what they decided to do to avoid encounter breaks due to sketchy pathing or problems with visibility I can't say.

 

Thanks! I did a quick test to see and I doubt this is the case. I ran back to the door which lets you out of the tower which is far enough from any encounter, I mean it is further away than I need to be on the second level if I trigger combat coming down. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Omnicron

[peddroelm]

 

So kill them weaklings, problem solved !  NEXT !

 

Oh wait ! I DON'T want to kill them (anyone) ! (you should probably mention the context where this becomes an issue - pacifist RECORD runs (relevant to perhaps 0.01% of the player base)

 

Whats with the attitude? I never said I am stuck, I never said I cannot progress, I already completed the Record Pacifist run with these kills included. I was quite detailed about the fact that I can kill them. I am just testing the game design and what it allows for and this particular floor seems inconsistent with the rest of the game. I did not ask for a fix, I was just curious whether this is a bug or is intentional. I really respect all your test posts and I find them very insightful, but don't know why you felt the need to respond like that.

 

Edit: While I did ask whether they plan to fix it it was a question of curiosity about whether they consider it a problem, I am not complaining and I am not demanding a fix because I cannot play the game the way it was meant to be played, it clearly is not an issue for whatever approach you choose to take. I was confused by the inconsistency and wondered about obsidian's opinion, that is all. I regard the irregularities in your test results far more pressing and have been confused why they have not been acknowledged. 

 

What attitude did you infer from my post ?

 

I was just only letting you know this problem you're facing might not be as apparent to other forum users or even devs. (I don't imagine a great deal of the player base does solo pacifist runs). Your problem doesn't make sense without the proper context (pacifist run) which you did not specify.. I was trying to improve your odds of getting a pertinent answer from the devs by clarifying your issue .. 

[Omnicron]

 

What attitude did you infer from my post ?

 

I was just only letting you know this problem you're facing might not be as apparent to other forum users or even devs. (I don't imagine a great deal of the player base does solo pacifist runs). Your problem doesn't make sense without the proper context (pacifist run) which you did not specify.. I was trying to improve your odds of getting a pertinent answer from the devs by clarifying your issue .. 

 

 

Well in that case thank you

 

It just sounded like a case of sarcasm which undermined my post (like just kill them, it does not matter), Now I understand that you were pointing out that the lack of context was meant that "just kill them" would be a valid reply. (Main topic edited in response)

 

As an FYI in 1.05 this is the only case of infinite combat I have encountered. There was one in Northweald in 1.04, but either the trigger has changed or it was fixed. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Omnicron

[Derek M]

Hi there, 

 

To the best of my knowledge, yes, this is intentional. 

 

Thanks for your feedback.