Trap Accuracy - How 1.05 Went Too Far (A Feedback Thread)

[Achilles]

Is the same thing true for wards?

[Ferrante]

I like buf fixing and balance patches, but somehow I feel they are listening the community in reddit instead their forum. And you dont know who the hell is in Reddit. 

[Matt516]

Is someone really using traps ? Before 1.05 they were highly situational. How often was a real chance to place traps effectively? Now after 1.05 there is no point of placing them at all. 

 

I think that's kind of the point the OP is making.. traps were highly situational at best before 1.05, so nerfing them to make them even less likely to be used seems a bit odd.

[abaris]

Is someone really using traps ? Before 1.05 they were highly situational. How often was a real chance to place traps effectively? Now after 1.05 there is no point of placing them at all. 

 

I do. And when they go off, they usually have an effect. They're pretty useful at choke points to deal just a bit of a softener. The problem is, as has been said, they're a bit too soft now.

[Achilles]

 

Is someone really using traps ? Before 1.05 they were highly situational. How often was a real chance to place traps effectively? Now after 1.05 there is no point of placing them at all. 

 

I think that's kind of the point the OP is making.. traps were highly situational at best before 1.05, so nerfing them to make them even less likely to be used seems a bit odd.

Traps in 1.04:

• Every trap had a flat -10 Accuracy
• Investing 3-4 points in Mechanics meant that any party member could set any trap (e.g. no differentiation between a highly skilled rogue and Eder with gimmick build)
• Therefore, power gamers could have 1 NPCs with high Mechanics for disabling traps and lots of NPCs with low Mechanics who could all set traps, pretty much on par with the "expert"

Obsidian decided this needed to change. Ok, won't disagree.

 

Traps in 1.05:

• Traps have escalating Accuracy penalty, presumably based on power (this seems reasonable)
• Investing 1-2 points in Mechanics means that a party member can set very basic traps with a small Accuracy penalty, but will have a large penalty if they try to set something more advanced. Meaning advanced traps should only be the purview of specialized builds (this also seems reasonable).

Where this went too far is that there is precisely one possible way to negate the -40 Accuracy penalty of highest level trap, there is precisely one possible way to negate the -35 Accuracy penalty of the next highest level traps, and there are only a handful of ways to negate the -30 Accuracy penalty of the third highest level of traps.

 

So, 1.04 = traps for everyone (bad), 1.05 traps for pretty much only Rogues (worse).

 

In 1.04 my Rogue got a sweet bonus for specializing. In 1.05 my Rogue would have to spend every single available skill point to negate the delta for Sunlance trap (but will completely rock dat dart trap, tho). Pendulum swung too far the other way.

[Tennisgolfboll]

Traps was so lame. Insta gib thaos or dragons.

 

That isnt game balance.

 

It was a great change

[Achilles]

Agree with the first two lines. The third tells me that you didn't read past the thread title.

[EdwinP]

Higher level traps should be the purview of those highly skilled in mechanics; however, as Achilles has stated, the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.

 

It may be worth considering 3 changes;

 

1. Reduce the accuracy penalty for the highest level traps by 6 or 9 (2 or 3 skill levels).

2. Every mechanics level above 5 increases the trigger area for a trap. Experts know how to set better traps.

3. Every 2 mechanics level above 5 provides knowledge on how to craft a new type of trap, randomly selected from a library of 8 traps. The details on this trap are added to the journal. A cool and useful bonus for higher level mechanic skills.

 

One might consider additional trap specific talents with a prerequisite

 

Example: Accurate Traps, Greater (Perquisite: Accurate Traps): Provides a +6 bonus to trap accuracy (passive).

Example: Extended Traps: Traps have a larger trigger area

 

Why not be able to enchant traps? I.e. a trap designed for slaying spirits for example.

 

PS: If Elder or Aloth knows that a PC is highly skilled in mechanics, it would be interesting if they offered a conversation with traps as the topic. Perhaps Elder offers an observation on the best times to set traps.

Edited May 23, 2015 by EdwinP

[Gromnir]

 

Is someone really using traps ? Before 1.05 they were highly situational. How often was a real chance to place traps effectively? Now after 1.05 there is no point of placing them at all. 

 

I think that's kind of the point the OP is making.. traps were highly situational at best before 1.05, so nerfing them to make them even less likely to be used seems a bit odd.

 

we use traps all the time.  why not?  individual traps is situational useful, but trap setting is always useful. we typical got two players with maxed mechanics in the party.  so two traps per (difficult) battle is a nice advantage. the damage from traps is often negligible, but a number o' the traps impart debilitating status effects.  start off a battle with a few foes already weakened, sickened, hobbled or whatever?  the aoe traps can leave 4 or more foes with a debilitating status effect to start a battle.  again, why not use traps?

 

also, people is attempting to divorce trap setting from the mechanics skill.  that is a mistake.  the skills is 'posed to be balanced.  trap setting is not a skill. mechanics is a skill. yeah, stealth is a near complete fail.  fine.  even so, given all the advantages the mechanics skill imparts w/o even considering trap setting, how do you balance mechanics compared to survival or even athletics?  mechanics already is a ridiculous useful skill for priests and it uncovers hidden 1007 and secret doors n' such.  so, make mechanics no better than stealth.  go ahead.

 

as an aside, sunlance does impart secondary burn damage, but much like the druid spell o' the same name, the burn damage range is a mystery.  sunlance is a trap we almost never use 'cause it don't add a noteworthy secondary effect to foes, so the -40 penalty is actual meaningless to Gromnir.  even so, approx. half o' its potential damage is inexplicable hidden.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[luzarius]

I've never used traps, now with the 1.05 patch I never have to worry about using them.

[Tennisgolfboll]

Agree with the first two lines. The third tells me that you didn't read past the thread title.

Glad we agree on those.

 

I read the whole thread. I think traps are perfect.

 

You cant defeat thaos with survival, sneak or athletics.

 

Mechanics is still the best skill imo.

[Silent Winter]

Despite the nerf, my traps are actually working since the patch - previously they were bugged for me and virtually never triggered, even when an enemy ran over them - so far (still only level 6 on this playthrough) they work fine.  Not battle winners but not completely useless.

I agree that the higher level nerf sounds a bit much.  I'd much rather a decrease in power than a decrease in accuracy anyway.  Will have to see how it plays out.

[Exoduss]

After 1.05 i never used any traps except 1 Time , because there is this terrible bug where after trap sets off for 2-3 seconds you cant target enemy's who are standing on the trap it would instead offer you to disarm the trap you placed yourself , This is the real nerf no :D?