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I guess I was curious as to when overhaul patching (where large bits of the game's mechanics are completely rebalanced) will end?

 

From my perspective, every time the game's mechanics are severely tweaked (the big three coming in 1.05 being a complete alteration to experience rewards, the retaliation nerf and nerfs to some paralysis effects) I feel obligated to start again even if my save is retroactively brought up to speed as so much changes and my character has benefitted from so much that now isn't in the patch is doesn't feel like a very legitimate playthrough any more. With the amount of restarts I've had to make just because of bugs (and common reasons for RPG re-rolling, like finding an appropriate difficulty you like and wanting to stick with it or testing different classes) I've now done the initial areas of the game many more times than I would have liked, and having many more huge rebalance patches will only make this worse.

 

This isn't to say I don't that I don't think rebalancing was necessary or that the rebalances brought in aren't worthwhile (though really this should have been mostly resolved in beta testing), but I hope that huge game-changing rebalancing can be completed fairly swiftly and subsequent patches will be of the minor tweak variety so there won't be this meteoric shift in gameplay each time (and hence wouldn't feel compelled to re-roll as nothing significant will have changed).

 

Anyone else get this feeling? I guess beyond anything else I'm just hoping to pressurise Obsidian  :dancing:

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There is gona be at least one expansion for this game, so they still have long way to go to "completely balance" the game.

 

Also I mentioned this before but I guess Obsidian wont take more efford to allow patch downgrading which Steam offers as a service; after big changes to the balance It could ruin hard playthoughs drastically.

Edited by ruzen

Kana - "Sorry. It seems I'm not very good at raising spirits." Kana winces. "That was unintentional."

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When the game is balanced.

 

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            - Sawyer-Sama! What is best in life?

 

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            - To crush the exploits, to see badwrongfun driven before you, and hear the victory cries of muh balance.

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Seriously, there's still a lot of unadressed issues with this game:

 

Constitution being useless, engagement system not engaging (ba-dum-dish...), still many OP spells (just move mental binding to level 3 already), interrupt being too weak, etc. ...

 

So far, Obsidian is doing fine with the patching.

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Seriously, there's still a lot of unadressed issues with this game:

 

Constitution being useless, [...]

Well that's one thing that is clearly never going to be addressed anyway. They've already acknowledged the issue and decided to work around it rather than on it, even to the point of compromising roleplay. I see no reason to think that the Attribute issues will ever be addressed.

Edited by Luckmann

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Your Sawyer-hate is old hat. It's also gotten to such an obsessive and repetitive level that I feel you should really look into it.

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Seriously, there's still a lot of unadressed issues with this game:

 

Constitution being useless, [...]

Well that's one thing that is clearly never going to be addressed anyway. They've already acknowledged the issue and decided to work around it rather than on it, even to the point of compromising roleplay. I see no reason to think that the Attribute issues will ever be addressed.

 

 

I haven't seen any official message about that yet, so I still have my hopes up. Constitution is the only stat that only has one effect and I'm sure that sooner or later Obsidian will change something about it. Possible solutions are already there (like recovery penalty reduction); they just have to implement them. In fact, the game mechanics for that are also there already (fighter's armored grace talent does exactly this), they just need to be applied to constitution aswell.

 

If interrupt gets a buff, then all other attributes will be pretty much perfect, so I wouldn't say that all hope is lost.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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Your Sawyer-hate is old hat. It's also gotten to such an obsessive and repetitive level that I feel you should really look into it.

 

w59aZ4T.jpg

 

I haven't seen any official message about that yet, so I still have my hopes up. Constitution is the only stat that only has one effect and I'm sure that sooner or later Obsidian will change something about it. Possible solutions are already there (like recovery penalty reduction); they just have to implement them. In fact, the game mechanics for that are also there already (fighter's armored grace talent does exactly this), they just need to be applied to constitution aswell.

 

If interrupt gets a buff, then all other attributes will be pretty much perfect, so I wouldn't say that all hope is lost.

 

I think that the issues are a bit more substantial than that, because it is about a lot more than the number of effects of individual Attribute Bonuses, and has a lot to do with how they all tie together - right now it all ties into a very clear dump/pump tank vs. DPS dichotomy, and I don't think that just fixing Constitution would be a solution, nor that interrupt getting a buff would fix things.

 

Although I agree that both of those things absolutely should happen, but with interrupt it may be enough to actually fix the Talent.

 

But you're unlikely to see an official message on the matter, since the current bonuses have been criticized since BB435 without a word. It is clear that Obsidian is aware of the matter, because they have been altering CNPC Attributes to buff CNPC:s, meaning that they know that the game favours min/maxing and that there's a clear dichotomy, or else they wouldn't consider the CNPC:s that much worse off with one set of attributes than another, to the point where they're actively disregarding the characterization-based attributes of CNPC:s in favour of "better" spreads (such as the 1.05 switch of Intellect and Perception for Grieving Mother).

 

If they were interested in fixing the Attribute Bonuses or unhappy with the current state of things, there would've been no better patch than 1.05 so far to fix it, but instead they choose to actively muck with the CNPC Attributes. It's clear that they don't see a problem with the Attributes nor a problem with altering CNPC Attributes to better min/max values, no matter if it makes sense for that character or not, so why would they fix the Attribute bonuses?

 

I held onto the same hope as you for the longest time, but I just don't see a reason for it any more.

 

Edit: And oh god, yes, I just realized which spell Mental Binding is. I keep thinking the exact same thing: "Why on Earth is this a Rank 2 Spell?" I even constantly find myself looking at the wrong spell-rank when I'm picking spells in combat, because I keep expecting it to be higher.

Edited by Luckmann

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Your Sawyer-hate is old hat. It's also gotten to such an obsessive and repetitive level that I feel you should really look into it.

 

w59aZ4T.jpg

 

I haven't seen any official message about that yet, so I still have my hopes up. Constitution is the only stat that only has one effect and I'm sure that sooner or later Obsidian will change something about it. Possible solutions are already there (like recovery penalty reduction); they just have to implement them. In fact, the game mechanics for that are also there already (fighter's armored grace talent does exactly this), they just need to be applied to constitution aswell.

 

If interrupt gets a buff, then all other attributes will be pretty much perfect, so I wouldn't say that all hope is lost.

 

I think that the issues are a bit more substantial than that, because it is about a lot more than the number of effects of individual Attribute Bonuses, and has a lot to do with how they all tie together - right now it all ties into a very clear dump/pump tank vs. DPS dichotomy, and I don't think that just fixing Constitution would be a solution, nor that interrupt getting a buff would fix things.

 

Although I agree that both of those things absolutely should happen, but with interrupt it may be enough to actually fix the Talent.

 

But you're unlikely to see an official message on the matter, since the current bonuses have been criticized since BB435 without a word. It is clear that Obsidian is aware of the matter, because they have been altering CNPC Attributes to buff CNPC:s, meaning that they know that the game favours min/maxing and that there's a clear dichotomy, or else they wouldn't consider the CNPC:s that much worse off with one set of attributes than another, to the point where they're actively disregarding the characterization-based attributes of CNPC:s in favour of "better" spreads (such as the 1.05 switch of Intellect and Perception for Grieving Mother).

 

If they were interested in fixing the Attribute Bonuses or unhappy with the current state of things, there would've been no better patch than 1.05 so far to fix it, but instead they choose to actively muck with the CNPC Attributes. It's clear that they don't see a problem with the Attributes nor a problem with altering CNPC Attributes to better min/max values, no matter if it makes sense for that character or not, so why would they fix the Attribute bonuses?

 

I held onto the same hope as you for the longest time, but I just don't see a reason for it any more.

 

Edit: And oh god, yes, I just realized which spell Mental Binding is. I keep thinking the exact same thing: "Why on Earth is this a Rank 2 Spell?" I even constantly find myself looking at the wrong spell-rank when I'm picking spells in combat, because I keep expecting it to be higher.

 

 

The problem with balancing the attributes is that a rebalancing could possible break the game. I understand why the devs are very cautious about sudden changes here. And obviously, there's still bigger fish to fry, as the attributes are not broken per se; in fact, they are very functional. They are just not equally viable depending on classes.

 

That's why it's a low priority issue. As long as it ain't broken, no hurry to come up with something better. I expect a major attribute overhaul later down the road when everything else is pretty much fixed and working.

 

 

Changing the interrupt formula and increasing the interrupt %-gain would already do much to make certain characters and builds viable. In fact, Sagani and Pallegina are specced well for interrupt builds. I actually consider getting the talent on them. It's just that the %-gain per point should be a little higher. 

 

I'm not sure if the devs are aware of the popular suggestion for constitution reducing armor recovery penalty, as this pretty much came post-release. They haven't read the forums much since then or responded here. It's an easy fix and would not break anything in the game. At least this will probably come pretty soon, if we just start to nag them constantly about it.

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I'm still waiting for 1.05 to come out on GOG!

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

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Your Sawyer-hate is old hat. It's also gotten to such an obsessive and repetitive level that I feel you should really look into it.

 

It does ensure that his opinions aren't taken seriously, and basically guarantees that the designers won't listen to him either.  I'd care about that if I spent so much time posting on a message board.

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I guess I was curious as to when overhaul patching (where large bits of the game's mechanics are completely rebalanced) will end?

 

From my perspective, every time the game's mechanics are severely tweaked (the big three coming in 1.05 being a complete alteration to experience rewards, the retaliation nerf and nerfs to some paralysis effects) I feel obligated to start again even if my save is retroactively brought up to speed as so much changes and my character has benefitted from so much that now isn't in the patch is doesn't feel like a very legitimate playthrough any more. With the amount of restarts I've had to make just because of bugs (and common reasons for RPG re-rolling, like finding an appropriate difficulty you like and wanting to stick with it or testing different classes) I've now done the initial areas of the game many more times than I would have liked, and having many more huge rebalance patches will only make this worse.

 

This isn't to say I don't that I don't think rebalancing was necessary or that the rebalances brought in aren't worthwhile (though really this should have been mostly resolved in beta testing), but I hope that huge game-changing rebalancing can be completed fairly swiftly and subsequent patches will be of the minor tweak variety so there won't be this meteoric shift in gameplay each time (and hence wouldn't feel compelled to re-roll as nothing significant will have changed).

 

Anyone else get this feeling? I guess beyond anything else I'm just hoping to pressurise Obsidian  :dancing:

 

Beta testers were a small sample size that were never going to be the end-all for opinions on game balance.

Edited by View619
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I guess I was curious as to when overhaul patching (where large bits of the game's mechanics are completely rebalanced) will end?

 

From my perspective, every time the game's mechanics are severely tweaked (the big three coming in 1.05 being a complete alteration to experience rewards, the retaliation nerf and nerfs to some paralysis effects) I feel obligated to start again even if my save is retroactively brought up to speed as so much changes and my character has benefitted from so much that now isn't in the patch is doesn't feel like a very legitimate playthrough any more. With the amount of restarts I've had to make just because of bugs (and common reasons for RPG re-rolling, like finding an appropriate difficulty you like and wanting to stick with it or testing different classes) I've now done the initial areas of the game many more times than I would have liked, and having many more huge rebalance patches will only make this worse.

 

This isn't to say I don't that I don't think rebalancing was necessary or that the rebalances brought in aren't worthwhile (though really this should have been mostly resolved in beta testing), but I hope that huge game-changing rebalancing can be completed fairly swiftly and subsequent patches will be of the minor tweak variety so there won't be this meteoric shift in gameplay each time (and hence wouldn't feel compelled to re-roll as nothing significant will have changed).

 

Anyone else get this feeling? I guess beyond anything else I'm just hoping to pressurise Obsidian  :dancing:

 

Beta testers were a small sample size that were never going to be the end-all for opinions on game balance.

 

I guess it just seems weird to me that stuff like paralysis traps slipped through the cracks though without a nerf, some stuff it seems should have come across as pretty blatantly overpowered.

 

It seems like I've been slightly misinterpreted - I'm not saying there shouldn't be gameplay and balance tweaks on going for ages, but I do wish they'd hurry along those major changes like their making currently like restructuring experience for the entire game. It stuff like that I want sorted quickly, as going from 1.04 to 1.05 in some ways will be like going onto a different game in that so much changes - which is why I wouldn't feel comfortable playing a 1.04 character in 1.05 (they be leveled way higher for one thing than they should be).

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Adragan's Gaze was nerfed because all petrify effects were nerfed - not enough, in my opinion, but it still happened.

 

Jojobobo to your clarified question, we know 1.05 was always planned from the start to be a 'big' balance fix; we don't know if any other such are planned until the expansion.

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Jojobobo to your clarified question, we know 1.05 was always planned from the start to be a 'big' balance fix; we don't know if any other such are planned until the expansion.

Well that's good to know, hopefully additional patches will have much more subtle differences.

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I'm still waiting for 1.05 to come out on GOG!

If you haven't checked it out again, the patch is up on GOG now.

 

@ Jojobob, yes I get this feeling with many games. I hate learning the mechanics and creating builds and characters with a certain goal in mind only to have that completely borked due to rebalancing patches. I wish games were released with much more attention to 'balance' in the first place, and patching involved minor tweaks and bug fixes instead. Of course, if wishes were horses...

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I'm still waiting for 1.05 to come out on GOG!

If you haven't checked it out again, the patch is up on GOG now.

 

@ Jojobob, yes I get this feeling with many games. I hate learning the mechanics and creating builds and characters with a certain goal in mind only to have that completely borked due to rebalancing patches. I wish games were released with much more attention to 'balance' in the first place, and patching involved minor tweaks and bug fixes instead. Of course, if wishes were horses...

 

 

Sheesh, must've been minutes ago. I've been watching it like a hawk.

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Well I hope the patches never stop adding new features like the stash sort, respec and new icons for uniques. That sort of stuff is priceless. But on balance I always enjoy seeing classes change (get buffed) so maybe I might try them out if I like what I see but eventually it will dwindle down  I suppose. Honestly the only class I find boring and a bit weak is ranger but that's just one of the many available. The pet and it's talents are far too useless other than bait and what's left is just shooting stuff with a bow. Other classes have far better utility too. Maybe I'm using it wrong.

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Sheesh, must've been minutes ago. I've been watching it like a hawk.

 

Looks like only about an hour ago, according to the time stamp on the GOG staff's thread. :)

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Honestly the only class I find boring and a bit weak is ranger but that's just one of the many available. The pet and it's talents are far too useless other than bait and what's left is just shooting stuff with a bow. Other classes have far better utility too. Maybe I'm using it wrong.

I can't think of a game I've played where the Ranger class was anything but boring/useless. This is one I wouldn't mind seeing get some overhauling, actually.

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I'm still waiting for 1.05 to come out on GOG!

If you haven't checked it out again, the patch is up on GOG now.

 

@ Jojobob, yes I get this feeling with many games. I hate learning the mechanics and creating builds and characters with a certain goal in mind only to have that completely borked due to rebalancing patches. I wish games were released with much more attention to 'balance' in the first place, and patching involved minor tweaks and bug fixes instead. Of course, if wishes were horses...

 

 

Sheesh, must've been minutes ago. I've been watching it like a hawk.

 

 

You probably shouldn't install the patch, Luckmann. They've balanced XP rewards by lowering the ridiculously high bounty rewards, and I know how much you detest balance.

"Forsooth, methinks you are no ordinary talking chicken!"

-Protagonist, Baldur's Gate

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