Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

[Class Build] Ranged Rogue PC Discussion (min/max)

Rogue Marksman Ranged Character Build Min/Max Player Character 1.05 POTD Buffs Discussion

  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

#41
Atchod

Atchod

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 81 posts

Using anything except warbow or hunting bow on this build is just stupid , dont believe it ? Console 2 identical char's with diff weapons and test it because i DID .

 

Also MoxyWoo why do you think rogue with warbow takes more micromanage than crossbow rogue is unclear for me this doesnt make much sense .

 

EDIT : There are no good crossbows in PoE except one that is at the end of the game, Also Kana's Reload Chant cant be used together with Fire Weapon Chant ( well it can but you loose like half of each chant so it is not a proper way to do it and if you use Fire Weapon+Reload Chant your chanter will never cast any skills ever because of how long those chants are ) so just stop considering them in the build ty , I would be happy to go for crossbows if there was any decent ones in the first 2/3 of the game but there is none . 



#42
Kilrach

Kilrach

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Don't count Dire Blessing? Why not discount Chill Fog and other AoE debuffs while you're at it, they are also spells right? Now you're just not making any sense. Dire Blessing and Devotions for the Faithful are used when you want your best self against bosses or hard encounters. I still crit like a boss without those buffs due to extremely high accuracy (yes, crit to hit can be overrated) with Pallegina's aura, racial advantage and Marking, plowing through Endless Paths using only per-encounter abilities and Chill Fog. Yes I tried Cloudpiercer, okay weapon except the gimmick of Jolting Touch - like I said once per encounter.

 

Kana's fire weapon chant is nothing to shout about. Using a war bow, you hit maybe 4 times? And that's assuming the timing is so nice that you manage to start shooting the second he chants. Tell me how much extra fire damage that is. And yes, it's for the whole party but the majority of my party is using reloading weapons anyway so reload chant it is. For the second time, I've already mentioned you can get an Exceptional xbow at the Dozens vendor and enchant it. 

 

Best crossbow and possibly ranged weapon in terms of instant damage is Good Friend (after enchanting it to Superb). Wendgar gives extra attack speed (already shoot fast enough with the high Dex and Kana's chant) and crit. Coordinating gives an extra +4 accuracy and +1.25x DAMAGE - I pick this over Wendgar (@MoxyWoo: maybe you could comment on this idea of mine?).  

 

uuwm1T3.jpg


  • MoxyWoo likes this

#43
Looms

Looms

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 34 posts

IMO Wendgar will be the one of best picks for ranged character once they fix the speed bonus.



#44
MoxyWoo

MoxyWoo

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 195 posts
  • Location:Land Of Woo

Resolve is good for all characters because interrupts are annoying.

 

Even just moving and getting interrupted was pretty maddening to me when a tank gatherer was suddenly stopped from positioning or similar.

 

On ranged rogue with warbow.. I'm always conflicted for them. I don't wanna micro them like some people do as I view them as a low maintenance class, yet like the chunky number they produce with the within 2 seconds sneak attack from the heavy hitting, heavy reload weapons.

to clarify.  my view of rogue is to have a good alpha and kill or severely hurt a monster.

 

i also view them as a class that doesn't need micro as much.

 

warbow hinders the 1st thing.

 

guns quickswitch helps but is just 1 more character to switch too.

 

crossbow offers the practical middle ground as enchants are easy and crit mod is not hurt either.  plus it reloads at half the time.

 

ps ty for the civil comments.. hope that clarified.

 

pps  on tab.  hope it reads ok.

 

edit:  Kilrach looks really good too...  i'm not sure what to comment on tho.  If you mean dps i use the attack speed spreadsheet.


Edited by MoxyWoo, 04 May 2015 - 10:36 AM.


#45
Kilrach

Kilrach

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 60 posts

@MoxyWoo: I was referring to my thoughts about Good Friend being better than Wendgar after enchanting it to Superb. IMO, Coordinating is better than the attack speed bonus and extra crit of Wendgar.



#46
MoxyWoo

MoxyWoo

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 195 posts
  • Location:Land Of Woo

 

 

28-41 Damage with a crossbow :DDD i am done with you , keep ****posting in this thread .i am out . There is a reason for Min/Max so you dont end up with such scrubish builds like yours :D

 

 

Just a heads up, with the damage on his sheet he has dealt roughly the same amount of damage a lvl 12 character has done at lvl 9.  Pretty impressive.

 

Anyway, theoretical Rogue on the attack spreadsheet... 22 dex, 3.1 dmg modifier (assumes all rogue talents +sneak attack + superb + 20 mig, etc, i think i got all of them, but did this quickly, -5 DR talent, +10 accuracy over the base 20 class for rogue)

 

DPS vs DR 20

-Warbow:  40.71 dps

-Crossbow:  60.61 dps.  (No gunner or surehand added in)

 

Basically, with all rogue stuff the crossbow comes ahead by the numbers, even at the "lower" DR due to how +dmg modifiers work.

 

That said the other numbers are vs DR 20

-Arquebus:  86.96 dps

-Pistol:  73.69 dps

-Arbalest:  76.18 dps

 

Practically though, attack time, and animations of the "guns" will seem like less dps even if the sheet gives them such chunky numbers.  


Edited by MoxyWoo, 04 May 2015 - 07:13 PM.


#47
MoxyWoo

MoxyWoo

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 195 posts
  • Location:Land Of Woo

@MoxyWoo: I was referring to my thoughts about Good Friend being better than Wendgar after enchanting it to Superb. IMO, Coordinating is better than the attack speed bonus and extra crit of Wendgar.

Speed modifier doesn't work on ranged weapons currently, so Good friend is better from a practical optimization.  If it gets fixed though...

 

Good Friend wins by 2.1 dps difference assuming superb even with the speed  Wendgar... it doesn't keep up next to +dmg mod and accuracy gains


Edited by MoxyWoo, 04 May 2015 - 07:06 PM.

  • Kilrach likes this

#48
Tigranes

Tigranes

    Obsidian VIP

  • Members
  • 10491 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Let's keep the pointless riling up of others for somewhere else, shall we? Discuss the game, not your imagined ideas of other people.


  • Crucis likes this

#49
Kilrach

Kilrach

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 60 posts

@Atchod: That damage excludes extra 25% Burning Lash damage. Also, I have not enchanted it with a Slaying mod with those stats. I might just fit in a Kith-slayer from now until I enchant Good Friend.



#50
Kilrach

Kilrach

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 60 posts

@MoxyWoo: By my calculations, due to enchantment restrictions, there isn't enough anvils for a secondary damage enchantment. Upgrading Good Friend to Exceptional and adding a +25% elemental lash damage might be more potent assuming accuracy isn't as valuable as a damage. So the question is this: is +4 accuracy or 10% more damage better?



#51
Psychevore

Psychevore

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 253 posts
  • Steam:Psychevore
Str: 18
Con: 3
Dex: 18
Per: 5 (Hearth Orlan minimum, I think)
Int: 18
Res: 15 (or whatever's left, usually 15)

Though for a rogue, I'd drop the Int to 3, push resolve to max and put everything left over in Perception. You really don't need the int.

#52
the streaker

the streaker

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 208 posts

Pretty sure you don't make up for the +5 accuracy, +1 dex and + 1 strength of elves with the +10% hit-to-crit of orlan.

 

Also a few posts up there's 70-90 dps with ranged weapons? Holy crap that would be insane if true! Unfortunately nothing does anywhere near that much, I think too many people have been dicking around with that big spreadsheet and it's no good anymore.


Edited by the streaker, 04 May 2015 - 08:28 PM.

  • MoxyWoo likes this

#53
MoxyWoo

MoxyWoo

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 195 posts
  • Location:Land Of Woo

@MoxyWoo: By my calculations, due to enchantment restrictions, there isn't enough anvils for a secondary damage enchantment. Upgrading Good Friend to Exceptional and adding a +25% elemental lash damage might be more potent assuming accuracy isn't as valuable as a damage. So the question is this: is +4 accuracy or 10% more damage better?

 

Accuracy to me, rogue has enough damage modifiers on its own + hit to crit conversion, etc.  The only time they don't produce a crazy crit later on is when they miss or graze.. accuracy gets you past that.  I forget what the number were exactly, but it was like... well if you get +50% dmg from critting, and you get a +4 accuracy increase on that, along with the other categories being bumped up, it was like... more accuracy = more damage = the modifier didn't matter as much.


  • Kilrach likes this

#54
MoxyWoo

MoxyWoo

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 195 posts
  • Location:Land Of Woo

Pretty sure you don't make up for the +5 accuracy, +1 dex and + 1 strength of elves with the +10% hit-to-crit of orlan.

 

Also a few posts up there's 70-90 dps with ranged weapons? Holy crap that would be insane if true! Unfortunately nothing does anywhere near that much, I think too many people have been dicking around with that big spreadsheet and it's no good anymore.

 

Yeah, I used to pull reasonable numbers off my wizard and had like 35 dps at the top end which seemed about right in play.  Now that I think of it, that Arquebus line seems terribly high when melee attacks with the same modifiers and no reload should be whacking for much higher dps.

 

So I think its broken, sad... it does seem to give the ratios right but the actual dps seems crazy high.



#55
Crucis

Crucis

    (10) Necromancer

  • Members
  • 1537 posts

 

Resolve is good for all characters because interrupts are annoying.

 

Even just moving and getting interrupted was pretty maddening to me when a tank gatherer was suddenly stopped from positioning or similar.

 

On ranged rogue with warbow.. I'm always conflicted for them. I don't wanna micro them like some people do as I view them as a low maintenance class, yet like the chunky number they produce with the within 2 seconds sneak attack from the heavy hitting, heavy reload weapons.

to clarify.  my view of rogue is to have a good alpha and kill or severely hurt a monster.

 

i also view them as a class that doesn't need micro as much.

 

warbow hinders the 1st thing.

 

guns quickswitch helps but is just 1 more character to switch too.

 

crossbow offers the practical middle ground as enchants are easy and crit mod is not hurt either.  plus it reloads at half the time.

 

ps ty for the civil comments.. hope that clarified.

 

pps  on tab.  hope it reads ok.

 

edit:  Kilrach looks really good too...  i'm not sure what to comment on tho.  If you mean dps i use the attack speed spreadsheet.

 

 

I'm not so sure that ranged rogues don't require that much micro.  Seems to me that if you want to maximize the value of their sneak attack ability, you have to micro your party to produce some of the various effects that create sneak attack opportunities.  Of course, if you're not going to worry about them, and just let them fire away, more power to you.

 

I agree that Crossbows do offer an interesting middle ground between warbows and higher alpha arbalests, arquebusses, and pistols.

 

In my last party, I had my custom ranged rogue carry a high alpha weapon and a warbow.  She'd open battles with the high alpha weapon but switch to the warbow after firing that first sneak attack shot.  And while she was about half a level behind my PC throughout the game, until the PC and the companions had hit the level cap, my ranged rogue still was second in the party for damage through out (behind my PC monk).

 

 

It's a shame that there aren't more unique crossbows and arbalests, though.  Only 2 each. 
 



#56
Kilrach

Kilrach

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Accuracy to me, rogue has enough damage modifiers on its own + hit to crit conversion, etc.  The only time they don't produce a crazy crit later on is when they miss or graze.. accuracy gets you past that.  I forget what the number were exactly, but it was like... well if you get +50% dmg from critting, and you get a +4 accuracy increase on that, along with the other categories being bumped up, it was like... more accuracy = more damage = the modifier didn't matter as much.

 

 

Lol I'm just a tad obsessed with getting the biggest number ever. That being said, my current xbow if upgraded with Kith-slaying could be an alternative (total 1.8x damage, 13 accuracy) when dealing with harder Kith encounters and you need all the damage you can get (priest buffs supplying a ton of accuracy). Enchanted Good Friend would be use most of the time though (total 1.7x damage, 16 accuracy).

 

It'd be like a Witcher-type situation where you have two types of the same weapons with you lol - it's just a thought (:


Edited by Kilrach, 04 May 2015 - 08:51 PM.


#57
Kilrach

Kilrach

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 60 posts

 

I'm not so sure that ranged rogues don't require that much micro.  Seems to me that if you want to maximize the value of their sneak attack ability, you have to micro your party to produce some of the various effects that create sneak attack opportunities.  Of course, if you're not going to worry about them, and just let them fire away, more power to you.

 

I agree that Crossbows do offer an interesting middle ground between warbows and higher alpha arbalests, arquebusses, and pistols.

 

In my last party, I had my custom ranged rogue carry a high alpha weapon and a warbow.  She'd open battles with the high alpha weapon but switch to the warbow after firing that first sneak attack shot.  And while she was about half a level behind my PC throughout the game, until the PC and the companions had hit the level cap, my ranged rogue still was second in the party for damage through out (behind my PC monk).

 

 

It's a shame that there aren't more unique crossbows and arbalests, though.  Only 2 each. 
 

 

 

You just have to see for yourself how fast the reloading is stacking Gunner with Kana's chant.

I still micro a lot in the sense that I require a Marking weapon user (Kana for me) to aim the same targets and make sure Pallegina's close by for her buff.


Edited by Kilrach, 04 May 2015 - 08:51 PM.


#58
Crucis

Crucis

    (10) Necromancer

  • Members
  • 1537 posts

 


 

I'm not so sure that ranged rogues don't require that much micro.  Seems to me that if you want to maximize the value of their sneak attack ability, you have to micro your party to produce some of the various effects that create sneak attack opportunities.  Of course, if you're not going to worry about them, and just let them fire away, more power to you.

 

I agree that Crossbows do offer an interesting middle ground between warbows and higher alpha arbalests, arquebusses, and pistols.

 

In my last party, I had my custom ranged rogue carry a high alpha weapon and a warbow.  She'd open battles with the high alpha weapon but switch to the warbow after firing that first sneak attack shot.  And while she was about half a level behind my PC throughout the game, until the PC and the companions had hit the level cap, my ranged rogue still was second in the party for damage through out (behind my PC monk).

 

 

It's a shame that there aren't more unique crossbows and arbalests, though.  Only 2 each. 
 

 

 

You just have to see for yourself how fast the reloading is stacking Gunner with Kana's chant.

I still micro a lot in the sense that I require a Marking weapon user (Kana for me) to aim the same targets and make sure Pallegina's close by for her buff.

 

 

What are the underlying details of Marking?  How long does the effect endure?  Is there a requirement as to how close you have to be to the marked target for the effect to affect your ranged weapon user?  And so on.

 

Regardless, I have to admit that long reloading weapons don't hold much appeal to me aside from Durance who gets a +10 acc bonus from his Magran talent, and as an encounter opening weapon for my frontliners (who then switch to melee weapons, so reload isn't really an issue for them).  It's probably just a bias of mine, but I like faster reload weapons because they let me switch targets and respond to emerging threats and opportunities much quicker.  Also, I don't worry much about power-gamey things like DPS.  I just semi-role play the game and enjoy it in that way.

 

And I don't particularly like Chanters in this game, so I only keep Kana around long enough to finish his quest and then replace him with a Companion who is more to my liking and play style. I have mildly considered trying a Chanter PC who I could mold into more of a ranged sniper chanter than Kana seems to be.  Kana just seems too beefy to play the back row sniper, in the way a ranger or a rogue might (not comparing their relative abilities to produce damage so much as just a general impression).  Kana just seems built to be more of an off-tank than a sniper.  BTW, I have noticed that Chanters get a +1 in Mechanics as a class, so it seems like they'd be a decent alternative to a rogue as a dedicated trap and locksmith (particularly if you built the character with a background that gave them another +1 to Mechanics).

 

 



#59
Kilrach

Kilrach

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 60 posts

IIRC Marking has a 5m range and it only affects the closest ally (so just put him next to the rogue). As long as they are attacking the same target, the buff is in effect. You get the St. Garam's Spark fairly early into the game and Pliambo per Casitàs later on, so there's no problem having a ranged Marker.

 

Pallegina's my offtank (think she's better than Kana having ranged Deflection bonus) so just put her in front of the rogue. I guess Kana's replaceable in a way, but his chant affects not just my rogue as Durance and Pallegina uses reloading weapons too (if Eder is holding all the aggro on his own).



#60
Crucis

Crucis

    (10) Necromancer

  • Members
  • 1537 posts

IIRC Marking has a 5m range and it only affects the closest ally (so just put him next to the rogue). As long as they are attacking the same target, the buff is in effect. You get the St. Garam's Spark fairly early into the game and Pliambo per Casitàs later on, so there's no problem having a ranged Marker.

 

Pallegina's my offtank (think she's better than Kana having ranged Deflection bonus) so just put her in front of the rogue. I guess Kana's replaceable in a way, but his chant affects not just my rogue as Durance and Pallegina uses reloading weapons too (if Eder is holding all the aggro on his own).

 

This really seems to make "Marking" a LOT weaker and less valuable than one might think from reading its in-game description.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Rogue, Marksman, Ranged, Character Build, Min/Max, Player Character, 1.05, POTD, Buffs, Discussion

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users