MOON-SIZED plot hole - "Supply and Demand" quest

[b0rsuk]

The quest makes a fuss about bitter squash seeds, which are used for abortion.  Doemenels control the trade in the seeds, resulting in high prices and high profits from prostitution (Salty Mast brothel).

 

Except that it's utterly pointless. Races in Eora can't have offspring with each other. They can only have offspring within that race.

http://new.spring.me/#!/JESawyer/q/476434993220970680

 

So as long as you don't mind some interracial sex, Eora is a swinger's wet dream. Hairy orlans, big breasted aumaua. Literally, the only thing Maea in Salty Mast had to do is to prohibit same race sex. Sexually transmitted diseases are probably still a thing, but that's not what the quest is about.

[perilisk]

So all she had to do was prevent her customers from sleeping with the very people they're most likely to find attractive (since presumably evolution is going to bias kith toward preferring non-sterile pairings)? That seems like a poor business strategy.

[Achilles]

Moon sized plot hole because kith probably want to mate with other members of their own species? Ostensibly for progeny (at least some of the time)?

[b0rsuk]

Races of Eora look so similar to each other it wouldn't make a big difference, they could still look attractive enough. And in any case it would be trivial to build a business around it compared to fretting over bitter squash seeds. At the very least it requires some further justification. The Dozens certainly look desperate to get laid.

 

I think they simply forgot about that. "No interracial offspring" is convenient for preventing the can of worms that is half-elves. But it comes with its own issues.

[Jojobobo]

Maybe we're not all into interspecies coupling like you b0sruk... I'm joking of course.

 

I guess some couples would probably want to have sex but not want to have the resulting kids until Waidwen's Legacy has been taken care of or animancy has progressed sufficiently to deal with the issues of having a hollowborn. The majority of these couples would likely be same species because it's the norm (as in before Waidwen's Legacy couple would marry their species and have kids, which is likely still the trend despite having kids being problematic now).

[gkathellar]

That's no moon.

[Karkarov]

Jobobobo makes a great point.  Many people might want the seeds just so they can have sex with whoever they want (even the same race dun dun dun!!!) without having to worry about Waidwen's legacy.  Meanwhile I am pretty sure there is no Waidwen's Legacy in the real world and plenty of people (even non prostitutes.... shameful!!!) still want birth control so they can just have sex whenever for fun.

 

Also yeah.... as a human I could see maybe digging an elf.  But I can't see myself ever wanting to get it on with an Orlan, Aumaua, or Dwarf.  So I can kinda see Orlans maybe being attracted to fellow Orlans more than Humans?

[b0rsuk]

The quest is not about "many people", it's about Salty Mast. It's an obvious oversight. If it was really about same race prostitution, the harassing thugs from the Dozens would say something about filthy orlans or smelly elves, and how they deserve a proper human or whatever.

Edited April 30, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Katarack21]

Races of Eora look so similar to each other it wouldn't make a big difference, they could still look attractive enough.

 

Right?! Blue and yellow with shark teeth? Practically identical. Four feet tall and covered with a thick pelt? Meh, almost can't tell the difference.

[gkathellar]

 

Races of Eora look so similar to each other it wouldn't make a big difference, they could still look attractive enough.

 

Right?! Blue and yellow with shark teeth? Practically identical. Four feet tall and covered with a thick pelt? Meh, almost can't tell the difference.

 

 

White-haired and slender? Good god, how could I have confused it for one of my own?

[Ineth]

But I can't see myself ever wanting to get it on with an Orlan, Aumaua, or Dwarf.

 

You dirty racist speciesist!  #YesAllOrlans

 

 

 

[fgalkin]

Considering that in the real world, "race" actually plays a huge role in sexual attraction ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/06/racism-online-dating-habits_n_4226797.html ), do you expect the humans of Eora to overcome all that and suddenly start getting it on with orlans? 

 

Consider the Aedyr Empire, where humans and elves (the "prettiest" of the non-human species)  are tied in ceremonial marriage, but most actual marriages occur between members of the same species. 

 

"Races of Eora look so similar to each other it wouldn't make a big difference, they could still look attractive enough."

 

 Yeah, you're basing that on what? Character portraits? Those probably don't do reality justice. For all we know, humans find the smell of elves repugnant, or vice versa.

 

 

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

[Katarack21]

 

 

Races of Eora look so similar to each other it wouldn't make a big difference, they could still look attractive enough.

 

Right?! Blue and yellow with shark teeth? Practically identical. Four feet tall and covered with a thick pelt? Meh, almost can't tell the difference.

 

 

White-haired and slender? Good god, how could I have confused it for one of my own?

 

True facts. Thing is, in almost all setting's elves are basically really thin, pretty humans with pointy ears. So for elves, specifically, the logic does in fact work.

 

But I have a hard time thinking that most human beings in any world would, under most circumstances, be sexually attracted to something that is for all intents a purposes a midget Yeti.

[Venatio]

The fact that there is no inter-breeding among the various kith races does not at all diminish the need for contraceptives. It's not a "moon sized plothole", it's not any kind of oversight. For instance, the vast majority of patrons at the Salty Mast are going to be humans (merchants and captains), and most of them will probably only pay enough to sleep with Gjefa (human prostitute) because she is the least expensive. So she at least would need quite a bit of the bitter squash seeds on the side in order to prevent a pregnancy from happening. That's not to mention all of the human courtesans that populate the alleys and docks of Ondra's Gift after nightfall who would no doubt also want to spend some of their earnings to prevent an unintended pregnancy. 

 

Also, "Eora is a swinger's wet dream" only if sexually transmitted diseases are not an issue or at the very least more easily treated. Of course, we meet a very active dwarven noble woman during the sidequest "The Final Act" who was having a good time with a young Orlan and was heard reproaching a human who she told should not be angry because she "kicked him out of her bed." But, as I alluded to earlier, the vast majority of people in the Dyrewood are human and so there will be a market for bitter squash seeds irregardless. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Venatio

[Tigranes]

Races of Eora look so similar to each other it wouldn't make a big difference, they could still look attractive enough. And in any case it would be trivial to build a business around it compared to fretting over bitter squash seeds. At the very least it requires some further justification. The Dozens certainly look desperate to get laid.

 

I think they simply forgot about that. "No interracial offspring" is convenient for preventing the can of worms that is half-elves. But it comes with its own issues.

 

Huh. you're saying Orlans and Dwarves look more similar than Caucasians and Asians? Because in Earth we know that ethnicities tend to be attracted towards each other. Also, moon sized plot hole? Um.

 

Just say that you found an interesting oversight and we'd all have agreed with you. 

[Rosveen]

Races of Eora look so similar to each other it wouldn't make a big difference,

Elves and humans, yes. Maybe dwarves if you don't mind the height difference (many do). But good luck convincing an average human girl to sleep with a midget covered in fur. Or a human guy to get a blowjob from a lady with shark teeth.

[gkathellar]

 

Races of Eora look so similar to each other it wouldn't make a big difference,

Elves and humans, yes. Maybe dwarves if you don't mind the height difference (many do). But good luck convincing an average human girl to sleep with a midget covered in fur. Or a human guy to get a blowjob from a lady with shark teeth.

 

 

You clearly haven't spent much time on the internet.

[Katarack21]

 

 

Races of Eora look so similar to each other it wouldn't make a big difference,

Elves and humans, yes. Maybe dwarves if you don't mind the height difference (many do). But good luck convincing an average human girl to sleep with a midget covered in fur. Or a human guy to get a blowjob from a lady with shark teeth.

 

 

You clearly haven't spent much time on the internet.

 

That doesn't count. Nobody on 4chan is human anymore.

[b0rsuk]

We have a saying in my country: "Opposites attract each other." Foreign-looking people get a lot of attention from opposite sex.

You are very, very naive if you think slightly different appearance would discourage masses from having a one night stand. Black-skinned guys are rumored to be well endowed, and women are eager to check if it's true. Many consider Asian women hot, the same goes for "latinos". Blondes are in high demand in southern countries, and black-haired dudes/gals with darker complexion in northern ones. "Interracial" is a big thing in porn, too.

 

I'll be the first to admit female orlans look hot, I'm 203cm tall (6ft 8in) and very short women are a big turn on for me. It frequently works the other way too. If you look around, you are likely to see couples of very tall guys with short girls.

 

Basically your defense of the plot hole is argument for racism in its purest form. "I don't want to touch that lady/dude because he looks different.". You attribute strong racism to people of Eora, and back it up by saying you wouldn't touch them either.

[Katarack21]

 

Basically your defense of the plot hole is argument for racism in its purest form. "I don't want to touch that lady/dude because he looks different.". You attribute strong racism to people of Eora, and back it up by saying you wouldn't touch them either.

They're not different races, they are separate species with distinct evolutionary lineages. Less like white people and black people, more like gorillas and chimpanzees.

[gkathellar]

Basically your defense of the plot hole is argument for racism in its purest form. "I don't want to touch that lady/dude because he looks different.". You attribute strong racism to people of Eora, and back it up by saying you wouldn't touch them either.

 

I think you are overestimating how much relevance this issue has to the real world, just like people in this thread are generally underestimating how diverse human sexual tastes are in the real world. It's not so much racism as it is underestimation of the human drive to bonk anything and everything.

 

As for those who are doing the underestimation, I'd like to remind you that most people with Western European heritage have Neanderthal DNA.

 

That said, there are definitely individuals whose relatively narrow sexual tastes are confined to those similar to themselves in appearance, for reasons no more sinister or complicated than individual preference. So there would undoubtedly be customers exclusively interested in people of their own species, and turning them away would be bad for the Salty Mast's business. Thus, it's probably important to have squash seeds on hand, even if some of the clientele is happy to do the interspecies tango.

 

Now - can we please have one thread related to sex that doesn't explode into some drama-fueled flamefest?

Edited May 1, 2015 by gkathellar

[b0rsuk]

 

 

Basically your defense of the plot hole is argument for racism in its purest form. "I don't want to touch that lady/dude because he looks different.". You attribute strong racism to people of Eora, and back it up by saying you wouldn't touch them either.

They're not different races, they are separate species with distinct evolutionary lineages. Less like white people and black people, more like gorillas and chimpanzees.

 

 

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

I don't care about lore justification. The point is, they only superficially differ in appearance, size and shape. There is no reason sex would be impossible. Most fantasy settings draw lizardmen - who hatch from eggs - with boobs ! And I hate to shatter your childhood, but male otters are known to brutally rape baby seals. Dolphins are huge jerks, too. Gang rape, killing the young of other species for fun, and they try to hump humans too at aquapark, just like dogs(who do that anywhere, not just at aquaparks, but they don't have prehensile penises, so it evens out). I would post a safe for work youtube link, but I'm not eager to probe where the banning starts.

 

The reason you haven't heard about inter-species sex attempts (more like rape) among animals that for many years it was a taboo subject. Early explorers were too shocked and too prude, it was considered unwholesome to talk about this. Dr. Levick is a good example (safe for work, no graphic imagery)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2157129/Sexual-depravity-penguins-Polar-explorer-discovered-century-ago-revealed-time--shocking-print.html

 

 

The Edwardian explorer was so shocked by the findings in his paper, 'Sexual Habits of the Adelie Penguin', that he initially recorded them in Greek to make them inaccessible to the average reader.

 

P.S. I'm not a furry.

[Rosveen]

We have a saying in my country: "Opposites attract each other." Foreign-looking people get a lot of attention from opposite sex.

You are very, very naive if you think slightly different appearance would discourage masses from having a one night stand. Black-skinned guys are rumored to be well endowed, and women are eager to check if it's true. Many consider Asian women hot, the same goes for "latinos". Blondes are in high demand in southern countries, and black-haired dudes/gals with darker complexion in northern ones. "Interracial" is a big thing in porn, too.

 

I'll be the first to admit female orlans look hot, I'm 203cm tall (6ft 8in) and very short women are a big turn on for me. It frequently works the other way too. If you look around, you are likely to see couples of very tall guys with short girls.

 

Basically your defense of the plot hole is argument for racism in its purest form. "I don't want to touch that lady/dude because he looks different.". You attribute strong racism to people of Eora, and back it up by saying you wouldn't touch them either.

Please. The next thing you'll be telling me is that I'm a misandrist because I'm attracted to women. 

It has nothing to do with racism, people simply have different sexual and aesthetic tastes - and they typically are attracted to people of their own ethnicity. Not always, of course. The exotic has its own appeal and I'm sure there would be enough interest in every race. But you suggest to ban same-species relations altogether and I'm not convinced it would be beneficial for the Salty Mast for reasons outlined earlier.

 

As a side note, I don't doubt your preference for short girls, but knowing my male friends, not many would be okay with their girlfriends staying werewolfy all year round.

[perilisk]

You know, if there's one plot hole with inter-kith relations, it's that they're sterile in the first place. There's a goddess of motherhood.  Wouldn't she have an interest in at least the occasional miracle birth? Parthenogenesis even? If all we're going to have is plain old secular nature, why bother with deities in the first place?

[Svirfneblin]

The fact that there is no inter-breeding among the various kith races does not at all diminish the need for contraceptives. It's not a "moon sized plothole", it's not any kind of oversight. For instance, the vast majority of patrons at the Salty Mast are going to be humans (merchants and captains), and most of them will probably only pay enough to sleep with Gjefa (human prostitute) because she is the least expensive. So she at least would need quite a bit of the bitter squash seeds on the side in order to prevent a pregnancy from happening. That's not to mention all of the human courtesans that populate the alleys and docks of Ondra's Gift after nightfall who would no doubt also want to spend some of their earnings to prevent an unintended pregnancy. 

 

Also, "Eora is a swinger's wet dream" only if sexually transmitted diseases are not an issue or at the very least more easily treated. Of course, we meet a very active dwarven noble woman during the sidequest "The Final Act" who was having a good time with a young Orlan and was heard reproaching a human who she told should not be angry because she "kicked him out of her bed." But, as I alluded to earlier, the vast majority of people in the Dyrewood are human and so there will be a market for bitter squash seeds irregardless. 

 

Kendall was an orlan? I always figured he was human.