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Shouldn't all spells be per combat encounter? Not per rest?

resting for free exploitable

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#21
Captain Shrek

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A lot of that can be fixed with signposting. For example, there is someone right outside Caed Nua who mentions that it's scary in there. Maybe add a little piece of dialogue which triggers based off party Health, advising maybe they should rest up first.

Now if players just skip all dialogue, I feel they deserve what they get.

This is probably one of the best ways to create a good encounter design and mitigate metagaming. I have been advertising this approach since ages on beta forums: Just trigger quests based on dialogue comprehension. Let people decide for themselves by reading stuff where a quest is, how to solve it. That way metagaming only helps as far as replaying the entire game and not an encounter. 

 

When will people learn this...

 

DX did it amazingly well. So did the first witcher game a bit :(. Best ever was of course morrowind. 



#22
Tigranes

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"I insist on exploiting the system to make the game much easier for myself. Clearly, the solution is to make resting much harder for everybody, including people who struggle with lower difficulties. What? You mean maybe shouldn't run back to the inn every ten minutes? That's just crazy talk! Oh, by the way, you guys all suck, this game is so easy."

 

Awwwwkay.

 

I actually would support more stringent resting limitations, but it's clear this would raise hell from many, many prospective players.

 

I see your point. But I've been doing no death, dead is dead, ironman, trial of iron rulesets for years. The first rule is to never limit yourself in any way, the game shows you no mercy during combat, so you have to do the same if you want to survive.   Exploiting bugs is not permitted, I never exploit bugs, but resting over & over for free is not a bug, it may be considered an exploit or an intended mechanic? I'm not sure. I was hoping to gain more info here on the forum.  It seems like free resting is a mechanic Obsidian agreed to allow players to use as they see fit, but it makes POTD difficulty much, much easier than it should be.

 

A toggle option in the menu would be nice (no leaving areas until cleared like scrotiemcb suggested).

 

For the record, this is not bothering my gameplay that much, it just makes POTD a bit too easy I think, but still I can't show the game any mercy, so I'll be resting VERY often.

 

 

If you have your own very personal set of house rules, fine. Deal with it. For most conventional modes of gameplay, there is no reason that spells should be per rest and not per encounter. 

 

If it makes POTD easy, then stop making it easy for yourself. Simple.


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#23
luzarius

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"I insist on exploiting the system to make the game much easier for myself. Clearly, the solution is to make resting much harder for everybody, including people who struggle with lower difficulties. What? You mean maybe shouldn't run back to the inn every ten minutes? That's just crazy talk! Oh, by the way, you guys all suck, this game is so easy."

 

Awwwwkay.

 

I actually would support more stringent resting limitations, but it's clear this would raise hell from many, many prospective players.

 

I see your point. But I've been doing no death, dead is dead, ironman, trial of iron rulesets for years. The first rule is to never limit yourself in any way, the game shows you no mercy during combat, so you have to do the same if you want to survive.   Exploiting bugs is not permitted, I never exploit bugs, but resting over & over for free is not a bug, it may be considered an exploit or an intended mechanic? I'm not sure. I was hoping to gain more info here on the forum.  It seems like free resting is a mechanic Obsidian agreed to allow players to use as they see fit, but it makes POTD difficulty much, much easier than it should be.

 

A toggle option in the menu would be nice (no leaving areas until cleared like scrotiemcb suggested).

 

For the record, this is not bothering my gameplay that much, it just makes POTD a bit too easy I think, but still I can't show the game any mercy, so I'll be resting VERY often.

 

 

If you have your own very personal set of house rules, fine. Deal with it. For most conventional modes of gameplay, there is no reason that spells should be per rest and not per encounter. 

 

If it makes POTD easy, then stop making it easy for yourself. Simple.

 

 

Hmm, I guess I can do that. I'll incorporate scrotiemcb's idea of not leaving an area to rest at the inn, until the area is clear.  



#24
scrotiemcb

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If you have your own very personal set of house rules, fine. Deal with it. For most conventional modes of gameplay, there is a very good reason why some abilities should be per rest and not per encounter. It provides variety.

If it makes you uneasy, then just rest before as many encounters as you can. Simple.

Edited by scrotiemcb, 28 April 2015 - 03:46 PM.


#25
nipsen

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Would it really change anything if all spells were switched to per combat encounter instead of per rest?

 

Or you mean, if the game was based around strategic use of situational powers to shift the battleflow, instead of being constantly about wearing down the hp of the enemies before your own hps run out?

 

Dear me, Iuzarius, only a "mentally unstable" person, and the guy who designed the first ruleset draft for PoE, would suggest such a thing, according to the forum-sages around here.



#26
Baron Bawookles

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Does this game really need to be made easier? Really?


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#27
perilisk

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Yeah Vancian magic was always a pretty crap holdover from D&D. There's a reason that it's the only pnp game that currently uses vancian magic.

 

Rest and recuperate magic applies to plenty of systems, including any number of MP based system. Generally resting in RPGs has been balanced by supply cost (Tents in final fantasy, rations in some ultimas, etc.), and the risk of dealing with random encounters during rest, or worse, while backtracking to an area where you were allowed to rest.

 

Anyway, PoE magic isn't even properly vancian, given that no class actually prepares specific spells in advance -- even wizards just prepare a shortlist.



#28
Volourn

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Vancian magic is awesome. Those who dislike it are not real RPGers. PERIOD.



#29
View619

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You can already rest for free, use the console. Before you ask, it's either cheating or achievements so choose one.



#30
luzarius

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Does this game really need to be made easier? Really?

 

Easier?  Being able to leave an area at any time and rest at the inn for free is what causes the game to be too easy.

 

I've invoked Scrotie's ruleset and my gameplay has been enhanced tenfold.


Edited by luzarius, 28 April 2015 - 06:36 PM.


#31
Silent Winter

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^great, and everybody has that option.

Personally, I've never even considered going back to an inn after every fight - that'd be boring and nuts.

I've also found myself making actual choices about whether to use up a camping supply or struggle on through the next fight (rather than rest spam).  I think the camping supplies and limited spells do their job just fine.  The fact that there's a workaround for people who can't manage the limitations is also ok - play the game according to your ability and interest.


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#32
View619

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Some people will always rest spam no matter what you do, the game should not make rest spamming the go-to mechanic in that case. If somebody can't manage to clear dungeons without running back to town then let him, I'll continue to enjoy the challenge of clearing dungeons in one go.



#33
player1

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When doing Eothas temple at 3rd level with just 3 characters my rule was going forward as long as possible until someone gets maimed.

 

Then go back to the inn. And why not, it is not like I'm in wildness to need "camping" supplies?



#34
Matt516

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If you have to rest after every encounter, you aren't rationing your spells properly.



#35
b0rsuk

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Again, I'd find that an interesting challenge. I think you'd get ten times the number of current camping complainers coming in to go MY ONLY SAVES ARE AUTOSAVE & QUICKSAVE IN CAED NUA AND I CANT GET OUT THIS GAME SUCKS. 

 

You can't go back from Sun in Shadow, yet there is an AUTO-SAVE labeled "PRE-ENDGAME". I don't see why the same method can't be used for other areas.

 

I've been thinking about time-based quests, but scrotiemcb's idea is even better.


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#36
ddillon

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Yes, all spells should be per encounter instead of per rest.

Spellcasters auto-attacking with ranged weapons 90% of the time is boring. PoE at least allows them to use weapons other than slings (a welcome change from the IE games), but the core problem remains.

Combat is more-or-less: Set positions, focus fire, auto-attack, focus fire, auto-attack, etc. Cast spell only if overwhelmed or if an enemy has a powerful ability that must be countered. Same thing, over and over, every time, against trash mob after trash mob.

Per encounter abilities and the per encounter spells gained at Lv9 and Lv11 are the only things making combat even mildly interesting right now.

#37
scrotiemcb

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Yes, all spells should be per encounter instead of per rest.
Spellcasters auto-attacking with ranged weapons 90% of the time is boring. PoE at least allows them to use weapons other than slings (a welcome change from the IE games), but the core problem remains.
Combat is more-or-less: Set positions, focus fire, auto-attack, focus fire, auto-attack, etc. Cast spell only if overwhelmed or if an enemy has a powerful ability that must be countered. Same thing, over and over, every time, against trash mob after trash mob.
Per encounter abilities and the per encounter spells gained at Lv9 and Lv11 are the only things making combat even mildly interesting right now.

I really couldn't disagree more. Just because an ability is "per rest" doesn't mean you can't ever throw it out there. If you are having spells left over when you rest, chances are you are being too conservative with them.
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#38
PrimeJunta

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Yeah. Learning strategic resource management is a big part of learning the game.


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#39
Captain Shrek

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If you have to rest after every encounter, you aren't playing cipher right.

 

 

There, fixed. Cipher is game's easy mode. If you can't rofl-stomp every battle with him, you don't understand the game. 



#40
ShadowStorm

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"Keep in mind I play on POTD, TOI, blind playthrough, so I usually don't hold back when fighting. I approach each fight with overwhelming force to ensure victory.  The problem is having to constantly use all the camping supplies or having to constantly go back to the inn and rest."

 

=> "I play in a way that is extremely wasteful of the limited resources that I am given. This creates some frustrations. I think the game should be fixed so that my decision to ignore the strategic decisions presented by the game becomes reasonable."

 

This, ladies and gentlemen, is a post by a moderator. Keeping it classy and setting the high bar for the rest of us to follow. 

 

Alas, I fear I can't summon forth an inner douchbag which quite matches that response, but it's nice to know where the moderators of the forum stand. Basically RPGCodex level infantile responses.







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