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Setting traps seems like a waste of time; am I doing something wrong?

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The higher-level traps set by my high Mechanics Rogue were very useful, especially when selected for enemy type (fireball for spirits, corrosive for ogres, etc.). I sold all the lower level traps and just kept the best ones. 

 

I agree the targeting circle needs fixing. I noticed several misfires in areas like doorways where they couldn't have been avoided. There is something off there.

 

I disagree with what seems to be the majority opinion though, about the single trap limit. I think that's okay, because setting up a long string of the more powerful traps would be an "I Win" button in many situations (once the triggering is fixed). Setting a trap is supposed to be one element of your party tactics, not the centerpiece. You could cheese every fight with the right selection of multiple high-end traps, especially since scouting ahead is so easy in this game.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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traps have the capacity to be game changers.  our first priest run had our main as a priest o wael, with maxed mechanics and gloves o' manipulation.  we also kept durance in the party, in part 'cause Gromnir wanted to explore durance character, but also because we were the only guy in the beta calling the priest the mvp class, so 2 were better than one.  we also gave grieving mother additional mechanics 'cause she actual had the only usable sneak skill in our group.  so, three traps, per encounter, placed in choke points, and at least one o' those is having ridiculous high accuracy.

 

"I disagree with what seems to be the majority opinion though, about the single trap limit. I think that's okay, because setting up a long string of the more powerful traps would be an "I Win" button in many situations"

 

qft.  

 

a single low-level trap in a hallway is gonna be a fail far too often.  on the other hand, high level traps, backed by a character with an effective 14 mechanics is devastating.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am not certain if intelligence affects aoe o' traps, but that could also be an issue with the basement intellect rogues people is creating in the adventurer's hall.

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Even one trap can make a difference. Early/mid-level, Noxious Burst traps can do enough damage to enough creatures to take several down to low health. Adragan's Gaze traps are obvious win buttons given how overpowered the spell is. Chain Lightning spells are also pretty useful. 

 

The weakest ones like Tanglefoot or Dart obviously don't do too much.

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Traps *can* be useful, but mostly they're not. There are some really strong ones, like the ones that Petrify. At lower levels, they can be very powerful, but lower-level traps are quickly outpaced by the increase in difficulty, and once you are overleveled for the content you're facing (~Act 2), traps simply aren't worth placing, because most encounters won't need them at all.

 

Yeah, some part of their body has to pass over the trap to trigger it. Selection circle isn't enough.

 

I'm not convinced even that is enough. I think a part of the body must pass over the centre of the trap's circle. I've seen enemies that are obviously within the red circle but have had it not trigger.


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I think that the only problem is that people are failing to notice what traps are really about. They won't outright kill enemies, but they will significantly reduce their stats, and that makes them a very effective opener to a battle, and as that even one per character makes big difference on higher difficulties. Or better, on potd. For everything else you really don't need them.

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Traps *can* be useful, but mostly they're not. There are some really strong ones, like the ones that Petrify. At lower levels, they can be very powerful, but lower-level traps are quickly outpaced by the increase in difficulty, and once you are overleveled for the content you're facing (~Act 2), traps simply aren't worth placing, because most encounters won't need them at all.

 

Yeah, some part of their body has to pass over the trap to trigger it. Selection circle isn't enough.

 

I'm not convinced even that is enough. I think a part of the body must pass over the centre of the trap's circle. I've seen enemies that are obviously within the red circle but have had it not trigger.

 

Traps are something you use strategically. They're useful quite often if you make them a part of your strategy.

 

You said lower level traps are powerful at lower levels. Sounds useful to me. You want them to be useful at higher levels? Why? 

 

Or are you saying encounters are too easy so you don't have to place traps? I agree the game is too easy. That's not a factor of the trap design, though.

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Traps *can* be useful, but mostly they're not. There are some really strong ones, like the ones that Petrify. At lower levels, they can be very powerful, but lower-level traps are quickly outpaced by the increase in difficulty, and once you are overleveled for the content you're facing (~Act 2), traps simply aren't worth placing, because most encounters won't need them at all.

 

Yeah, some part of their body has to pass over the trap to trigger it. Selection circle isn't enough.

 

I'm not convinced even that is enough. I think a part of the body must pass over the centre of the trap's circle. I've seen enemies that are obviously within the red circle but have had it not trigger.

 

Traps are something you use strategically. They're useful quite often if you make them a part of your strategy.

 

You said lower level traps are powerful at lower levels. Sounds useful to me. You want them to be useful at higher levels? Why? 

 

Or are you saying encounters are too easy so you don't have to place traps? I agree the game is too easy. That's not a factor of the trap design, though.

 

 

I don't, I was just making an observation. It is easy to think of traps as just traps, and since they're very rarely necessary, you end up hoarding them. I was just saying that you should use the lower-level traps at lower levels. In fact, as you disarm traps, it may not be a bad policy in general to use them in the same dungeon. Lower-level traps quickly becomes completely useless, and it's hard to keep track of what's what.

 

And then at the end, only the truly powerful traps are really useful, such as the very rare ones that Petrify.

 

I like traps, I just wish they worked better. They're too unreliable and the amount you can place should increase by Mechanics.


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Not sure why traps isn't a per rest ability. Say 4 per rest. That way you could have your mechanic set 4 of them at one time. instead of I can set a million traps but only the last trap i set works the rest just disappear forever.

 

I just sell them. if you dont have a wizard the adra gaze trap is good but the spell is better.

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ps am not certain if intelligence affects aoe o' traps, but that could also be an issue with the basement intellect rogues people is creating in the adventurer's hall.

 

Why would you use a Rogue as your Mechanics expert anyway?

 

Rogue's can benefit from stealth, so pump that instead.

 

Max out Mechanics on another character, who doesn't really need the other skills (like a cipher).


"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Still, the fact remains that no way am i going to raise my mechanics to 10 on all 6 of my characters.

 

 

What else is there to rise?

Lore and Mechanics are about the only two worthwhile skills atm. And Athletics to 4 to avoid early fatique.

 

I spec mechanics basicly on all casters, since they mostly have no use for scrolls anyway, so lore would be wasted on them.

 

That means I always end up with 3 guys for setting traps. And it's amazing how effective higher level traps are with a good mechanics skill. Just don't use those 15 damage traps...

 

 

I've absolutely not found traps to be a waste of time.

Edited by Zwiebelchen

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Even one trap can make a difference. Early/mid-level, Noxious Burst traps can do enough damage to enough creatures to take several down to low health. Adragan's Gaze traps are obvious win buttons given how overpowered the spell is. Chain Lightning spells are also pretty useful. 

 

The weakest ones like Tanglefoot or Dart obviously don't do too much.

 

 

Yeah. Except one seal makes more difference. Way more difference. To set traps right takes either metagaming knowledge or lots of reloads most of the time. The encounter design is hardly suited for tactical gameplay that allows stealth scouting. Not to mention, where traps actually matter, like Raedrick's hold, it makes almost zero sense to allow it. In the game if you 'sneak' (note the quotes) up to Raedric then he sees you putting traps. IN HIS THRONE ROOM. 


"The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."

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Even one trap can make a difference. Early/mid-level, Noxious Burst traps can do enough damage to enough creatures to take several down to low health. Adragan's Gaze traps are obvious win buttons given how overpowered the spell is. Chain Lightning spells are also pretty useful. 

 

The weakest ones like Tanglefoot or Dart obviously don't do too much.

 

 

Yeah. Except one seal makes more difference. Way more difference. 

that very much depends.  ogres, for example, is having poor dr v. corrode. get a 5th level priest to set a noxious burst trap that crit 3-4 ogres +50 damage and sicken them at the start o' combat?   there is no seal for corrode.  even so, we can use the corrode trap and then use the seal spells as well once combat starts... use on sickened ogres. is not a one-or-the-other proposition.  we can't set the trap during combat, so from a tactical standpoint, we frequent get more mileage from our priest using their high mechanics skill to set non-spell traps before combat... traps that will be efficacious against particular foes.  that ain't a meta-knowledge exploit either as it is part o' the bestiary and players is 'posed to learn foe qualities.  

 

gotta be smart about traps, and yeah, frequently a seal spell will be more efficacious, but just as frequent, the trap will be more advantageous.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps the lowly poison dart trap is overlooked far too often.  the weakened state is a significant debuff.  sure, is not an aoe that is gonna hit multiple targets. but set up trap(s) to near guarantee at least one or two foes will be weakened from start o' combat is a heck o' an advantage.  

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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ps am not certain if intelligence affects aoe o' traps, but that could also be an issue with the basement intellect rogues people is creating in the adventurer's hall.

 

Why would you use a Rogue as your Mechanics expert anyway?

 

 

 

the obvious reason is that for no other class will the skill point investment be as cheap as for a rogue.

 

...

 

there shouldn't need be an explanation of the obvious. we get high mechanics cheaper and faster with a rogue.

 

*shrug*

 

also, trap setting is ideal for a character who also has high stealth.  we can get closer to foes and set traps with greater precision by using a rogue with high mechanics (for the accuracy bonus) and high stealth.  no other character can start with the kinda bonuses a rogue gets for stealth and mechanics.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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ps am not certain if intelligence affects aoe o' traps, but that could also be an issue with the basement intellect rogues people is creating in the adventurer's hall.

 

Why would you use a Rogue as your Mechanics expert anyway?

 

Rogue's can benefit from stealth, so pump that instead.

 

Max out Mechanics on another character, who doesn't really need the other skills (like a cipher).

 

 

Why?  The answer's easy.  You get 2 points in Mechanics to start with a Rogue.  Then if you pick a Laborer or Merchant background, you get another point in it.  That's 3 points to start with when the best anyone else can hope for is 1 point for the background.  On top of that, remember that the first point you "buy" when leveling up will only cost 1 point whether you start with 3 or 0.  This means that Rogues can get to a high level of skill in Mechanics cheaper than anyone else.

 

All that said, given the number of skill points the game gives you, you can't get a character up to 10 points in 2 different skills over 12 levels, even with a head start like Rogues get.  So it comes down to whether you want your Rogue to be superb in Stealth or Mechanics.  In my current party, my Rogue went for Mechanics, while my PC Monk went for stealth.  I did this largely because I intended for my rogue to be a ranged rogue rather than a melee rogue, so I saw no real point in having her stealth be high enough to get into melee range unspotted.  OTOH, there was some value in doing that for he Monk since her best combat abilities are melee based.

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Does mechanics effect priest trap spells?

yes.  is two distinct aspects contributing to improved efficacy o' priestly seal spells as cast by a priest with high mechanics skill.  1) trap math is better for generating accuracy than is priest spell accuracy.  and 2) whatever bonus you get from mechanics for trap accuracy boosts the spell accuracy of seal spells.  simple by using trap accuracy v. priest accuracy, you benefit between +20-30 for accuracy determination. the priest with 10 mechanics gets another +30.  so, the mid level priest, wearing gloves of manipulation, could see a relative +50-60 to accuracy compared to the rest o' his/her spell repertoire.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Does mechanics effect priest trap spells?

yes.  is two distinct aspects contributing to improved efficacy o' priestly seal spells as cast by a priest with high mechanics skill.  1) trap math is better for generating accuracy than is priest spell accuracy.  and 2) whatever bonus you get from mechanics for trap accuracy boosts the spell accuracy of seal spells.  simple by using trap accuracy v. priest accuracy, you benefit between +20-30 for accuracy determination. the priest with 10 mechanics gets another +30.  so, the mid level priest, wearing gloves of manipulation, could see a relative +50-60 to accuracy compared to the rest o' his/her spell repertoire.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

Thanks. Respecing priest time.

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I have to agree. Traps are useless. When I hit an enemy trap it does way more damage to me, then the trap I set for monsters.  My other beef, is that I can't set more than one trap either, which is a strange artificial limit. I love turn based games because it allows me to play strategically. I should be able to place more than one trap in order to shape a battlefield to my liking. There are several areas in the game where multiple traps are laid out for me to trip over, so it seems unfair I can't do the same.

 

Baldur's Gate got it right. My thief could set multiple traps, and I was rewarded for developing a good battle plan.

 

My last complaint is that after I discover a trap, my party does not walk around the trap. I sort of expect the path finding algorithm to give my party the common sense to walk around a known trap instead of straight through it.

 

Overall, I'm enjoying the games, but as I said, traps are useless.

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In principle I like traps, in practice I don't.

 

I would like to see:

 

1. Better visual indicator of trap trigger area.

 

2. Trap area of effect based on skill level (mechanics) - higher skill in mechanics means that you can set traps with a wider area of effect. Example: +20% per level - at level 5 the area of effect is (2x), at level 10 it is (3x).

 

3. As KevinG stated, AI should guide your party around the player's own traps.

 

4. I would allow the setting of more than one trap, but only at a distance from an enemy. Within a specified radius setting multiple traps should trigger an enemy reaction - i.e. NPC hears a noise and investigates. The more traps you set close to the enemy the more likely this will trigger a reaction - perhaps all the guards in the area respond. The higher your skill in mechanics the more swiftly and quietly you can set traps.

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3. As KevinG stated, AI should guide your party around the player's own traps.

He meant guiding the party round enemy traps that you've discovered (marked in red).  Party traps are now marked in green and don't trigger for friendlies.

 

I'd like multiple traps.  1 is an odd limit.  But intelligent enemies should also have a chance to disarm your traps if they discover them.  That might make for some complicated AI (disarming time while getting attacked v. taking the hit and attacking - holding back other, non-disarming, enemies v. them running over trap to attack you.)


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So, my rogue character had amassed a nice selection of traps into her inventory. I had never used any of them myself. But then I came across an encounter perfectly suited for that: in the catacombs, a room at the end of a corridor is full of mercenaries, and the door to that room is closed. I didn't deal with the baddies on my first attempt, so I decided to set the corridor full of traps, leave the rest of my guys behind, open the door with my fast monk and the run back to the rest of my group with the mercenaries behind me, setting off the traps.

 

It was a good enough plan, I thought. There was only drawback: the traps didn't go off. I tried multiple saves, but no. The mercenaries just ran through them as if they weren't there.

 

So, how does this part of the game work, if it does?

 

Heya,

 

I used all the traps I disarmed in the game with a rogue with high mechanics. Was great fun and very useful. Very good way to "open the fight" so to speak. Basically I would scout ahead in stealth and find a mob. Once I found the mob, I would choose a choke point with my tank. Then I would put a trap a little before the tank where the choke point is. I would then position my group. I would then use my rogue with a ranged weapon to attack the mob and then run behind my tank. The mob would then pull towards my choke point, walk right into the trap, boom, and then the tank would entangle them.

 

I loved the noxious, boil, etc traps. Basically the cloud or sprays. Didn't care for the dart or arrow or missile types.

 

Very best,

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The unreliability of traps even when setting one up in a doorway (so enemies have to walk past it) made me quit using them. I rebuilt my characters so only one person has mechanics, since I thought about it as good for only unlocking/disarming. I don't mind the one trap limit, but with small, unreliable trigger areas, they might as well not be there. 

 

I have felt that rogues are pretty nerfed in an unfun way with the skill distribution. If I put enough points in mechanics to deal with most traps and locks, I got caught stealthing too often. Yet, because I didn't dedicate enough points to mechanics, there were too many locks I couldn't open or traps I couldn't disarm. Even after the rebuilds, with a character with 11 or 12 mechanics, there are still doors I can't open. Which is cuts my enjoyment. 

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