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Smoked Brisket

just a comment on the rpg codex review.

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I need to start by saying that I am a registered member of the codex and have been for a long time. I am glad the codex exists and it is a site that I check on a daily basis to find news on crpgs that I cannot find anywhere else. I do not post there, I respect it and apreciate its existence.

 

I read Darth's review and, quite honestly, there is not a single criticism that I would say is unfounded or wrong. The problem with the review of the game, and what makes it suspect, is the sensationalism.  I have been a true reader of the codex for over 8 years and in that time I have learned that there are a few things that are going to get your game some universal love in the codex.

 

1. It has to be turn based. If you dont believe me on this just register and make a poll titled "Is Temple of Elemental Evil a better game than Baldur's Gate 2. I **** you not, it will be close. The codex overall loved wasteland 2, a game that I was unbelievably excited about because I consider Fallout 1 and 2 to be perfect games, and I mean that. Wasteland 2 was somewhat fun but an absolute failure in terms of balance, art, story, and humor. Quite honestly, besides the isometric view that I love and is important, the travesty that was "fallout 3" was a funner experience. It was turned based so the codex pointed out some flaws, but overall good reviews. Dammit that was a disapointing game(sorry venting, it was over 50 goddamned dollars.)

 

2. The game cannot, in any way, be universally acclaimed or be based on a universally acclaimed game before the codex has called its forebarers a classic. The divinity series was a quality niche game with a great deal of faults that deserved some love. Really fun games that deserve a play from rpg fanatics. Read the codex and these are brilliant masterpieces. Wizardy 8 was a game that had a really cool story but had a random encounter grind that is so annoying that you want to lynch anyone that ever mentions the game after playing it for 45 minutes. Check out the codex, It's an all time classic. "Divinity Original Sin" was reviewed very well on the codex. Indeed the codex got mentioned many times as I played the game. Character development in that game was absolutely awful with many skillpoints going to random stuff just because. Combat got boring early, I struggled to finish the game. I thought it was the worst divinity game as far as fun. I was ok with the codex slathering praise, though, because I love the genre. But, that game is bad and forgettable, especially the combat.

 

3. You need to make a post and offer the codexians some kind of recognition in your game. Holy ****, I was so fired up when I launched "Divinity Original Sin" for the first time and saw "RPG Codex" right there on my game splash screen.! Then I played the game for a while. I will not go into details here, comparing apples to apples is not the point.

 

Pillar of Eternity is not a new classic crpg in my opinion. The game has flaws and I definitely agree that, beyond the act of aquireing it, the stronghold is a complete joke. I will also agree that most of the encounters are not as well planned and engaging as I had hoped to ex[ect from this group of gaming minds. It is still pretty fun though. Honestly, it is really fun. For the first few hours I was pissed because it wasn't as fun as BG2. I kept on. The art isnt as good but its damned good. I was upset by kills not giving xp but they actually do if you read. Some of the conversations are ****ing verbose, but the important conversations are quite interesting. It is pointless to try and discount anyones opinion line by line. That is not why I am making this post. PoE has some flaws, it deserves some criticism for certain shortcomings. It does not deserve the lambasting it recieved from Darth Roxor in his official review. Roxor made some points but also said ridiculous things like "worst Obsidian game ever." I could not give a **** about a game company, but I love Infinity Engine based games with an epic story that takes me back to BG and BG2. So **** any reviews that are extreme for the sake of some kind of internet street cred. Quite honestly, I am disapointed in the codex for putting that on the front page and legitimizing it as an unbiased review. Then again....Divinity original sin!?......Wasteland 2?! 

 

 

 

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So what you are saying is that if you want to make a decent game then you need to just ignore the Codex?  Suspected this as much, the Codex has, through their hate and bile, done the most harm to themselves with this kind of stuff, causing themselves to become more and more irrelevant but unable to stop themselves because the hate and bile is the only thing keeping them going now.  The biggest problem is that they make the rest of us who also want old-school RPGs and the like to look bad.  You've got publishers not backing these types of games and when someone does come along and make one you have these guys jumping all over it declaring it the worst thing ever, then they wonder why developers are so reluctant to make these games anymore?

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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I need to start by saying that I am a registered member of the codex and have been for a long time. I am glad the codex exists and it is a site that I check on a daily basis to find news on crpgs that I cannot find anywhere else. I do not post there, I respect it and apreciate its existence.

 

I read Darth's review and, quite honestly, there is not a single criticism that I would say is unfounded or wrong. The problem with the review of the game, and what makes it suspect, is the sensationalism.  I have been a true reader of the codex for over 8 years and in that time I have learned that there are a few things that are going to get your game some universal love in the codex.

 

1. It has to be turn based.

g0k0TUa.png

 

 

 

2. The game cannot, in any way, be universally acclaimed

 

sKoYkuk.png

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The biggest problem is that they make the rest of us who also want old-school RPGs and the like to look bad.  You've got publishers not backing these types of games and when someone does come along and make one you have these guys jumping all over it declaring it the worst thing ever, then they wonder why developers are so reluctant to make these games anymore?

 

Are you saying the Codex is responsible for developers being reluctant to make old school rpgs because developers think the Codex will declare it the worst thing ever?

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didn't read the genesis post, but don't take that as insulting as we didn't get past the second paragraph o' the codex review.  somehow seems unfair if we would read the post about the review but not the review.  apologies if there is something genuine insightful that we missed.  am simply curious why we need a separate thread to comment about the codex review, a review which already has a thread. 

 

is no biggie.  more threads doesn't bother us, but this thread does have the appearance o' an attention grab... which isn't a big deal either.  

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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The biggest problem is that they make the rest of us who also want old-school RPGs and the like to look bad.  You've got publishers not backing these types of games and when someone does come along and make one you have these guys jumping all over it declaring it the worst thing ever, then they wonder why developers are so reluctant to make these games anymore?

 

Are you saying the Codex is responsible for developers being reluctant to make old school rpgs because developers think the Codex will declare it the worst thing ever?

 

Good point, didn't think that through did I.  No I'm not but I guess that is what I said, the point I was trying to make is that developers probably have less and less reason to listen to the Codex the more it seeks attention by attacking anything and everything, but I kinda wandered there I think.


"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Obssheep found the thread first...hehe.

 

Personally, I agree with Darth's review 100%.

 

It was spot-on.

 

Second, I like D:OS and WL2 is one of my favorite games.

 

Nothing outside of some Robin Williams monologues have got me laughing so hard. How can you not find Scotchmo hilarious?

 

"These aren't my pants! Somebody **** in them!"

 

The first time I caught him saying this, I lost it!

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BTW, Codex considers Fallout New Vegas the best Obsidian game.

 

And this Codex PoE review is not a official RPGCodex PoE review as RPGCodex has no official review staff. Anyone that has the willpower and enough writing skill can make a review for any game and Codex will post it. DarthRoxor is not representing Codex with this review but himself. Codex is an anarchist site in heart

Edited by archangel979

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BTW, Codex considers Fallout New Vegas the best Obsidian game.

 

And this Codex PoE review is not a official RPGCodex PoE review as RPGCodex has no official review staff. Anyone that has the willpower and enough writing skill can make a review for any game and Codex will post it. DarthRoxor is not representing Codex with this review but himself. Codex is an anarchist site in heart

 

Reviews always represent only that one's/ones' views who wrote it, regardless where it is published. It is just nature of reviews.

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The biggest problem is that they make the rest of us who also want old-school RPGs and the like to look bad.  You've got publishers not backing these types of games and when someone does come along and make one you have these guys jumping all over it declaring it the worst thing ever, then they wonder why developers are so reluctant to make these games anymore?

 

Are you saying the Codex is responsible for developers being reluctant to make old school rpgs because developers think the Codex will declare it the worst thing ever?

 

 

Literally. Worse. Than. Hitler.

 

BTW, Codex considers Fallout New Vegas the best Obsidian game.

 

And this Codex PoE review is not a official RPGCodex PoE review as RPGCodex has no official review staff. Anyone that has the willpower and enough writing skill can make a review for any game and Codex will post it. DarthRoxor is not representing Codex with this review but himself. Codex is an anarchist site in heart

I love that the RPGCodex is probably the most successful anarchist project I've seen online, yet it weathers near-constant accusations of fascism from self-appointed liberals and leftists, while the actual fascists are like "Hey, cool beans."

Edited by Luckmann

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The Codex review makes a lot of excellent points (especially wrt story motivation not being reinforced adequately, encounter design and AI) but is riddled with factual errors and has really inconsistent conclusions.

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I love that the RPGCodex is probably the most successful anarchist project I've seen online, yet it weathers near-constant accusations of fascism from self-appointed liberals and leftists, while the actual fascists are like "Hey, cool beans."

 

I disagree, that is what they like to think but when you have Codexers dictating to others how things should be because "that's how it was decided by the community" like I have seen then reality does not match up with their fantasy.  They also try to be edgy and scandalous in order to get attention, in typical meme fashion, which is why this is going to be my last post on them as I've realised that I have fallen for it myself. 

 

They tend to remind me more of the crowd in  the "Yes, we are all individuals!" scene of The Life of Brian.


"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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I googled anarchy and immediately found this quote:

"Another radical doctrine developed during the period of the 1830s-- anarchism. Anarchism is often considered to represent current of radical thought that is truly democratic and libertarian. It is hailed in some quarters as the only true political philosophy freedom. The reality is quite different. From its inception anarchism has been a profoundly anti-democratic doctrine. Indeed the two most important founders of anarchism, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Michael Bakunin, developed theories that were elitist and authoritarian to the core."


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I love that the RPGCodex is probably the most successful anarchist project I've seen online, yet it weathers near-constant accusations of fascism from self-appointed liberals and leftists, while the actual fascists are like "Hey, cool beans."

I disagree, that is what they like to think but when you have Codexers dictating to others how things should be because "that's how it was decided by the community" like I have seen then reality does not match up with their fantasy.  They also try to be edgy and scandalous in order to get attention, in typical meme fashion, which is why this is going to be my last post on them as I've realised that I have fallen for it myself. 

 

They tend to remind me more of the crowd in  the "Yes, we are all individuals!" scene of The Life of Brian.

 

 

All those words, and all I hear is "Our hivemind is different".

 

I googled anarchy and immediately found this quote:

"Another radical doctrine developed during the period of the 1830s-- anarchism. Anarchism is often considered to represent current of radical thought that is truly democratic and libertarian. It is hailed in some quarters as the only true political philosophy freedom. The reality is quite different. From its inception anarchism has been a profoundly anti-democratic doctrine. Indeed the two most important founders of anarchism, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Michael Bakunin, developed theories that were elitist and authoritarian to the core."

I once googled a quote, too. Cool beans.

Edited by Luckmann

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If your goal is to persuade, you don't do that by pissing people off.  And the Codex does that in spades.  Why would a developer bother to listen to a group that heaps personal abuse on him?  One that ignores anything good and exaggerates anything bad?  And if they also provide clear evidence that they don't know what they're talking about (e.g. demonstrating that they don't understand the systems, because they were only playing the game to find attack points, not to enjoy it) then it's even easier to ignore them.

 

Real-life lessons apply here.  If you want someone to listen, praise what's good and then they may be able to hear you when you critique what's bad.  Show perspective.  Be professional - rants convince only the people who already agreed with you.  And be willing to take what you give - the way that Codex folks can't see any problems at all with their approach, but are so eager to talk about why everyone else is worthless, is a major tell of a real community problem.

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I love that the RPGCodex is probably the most successful anarchist project I've seen online, yet it weathers near-constant accusations of fascism from self-appointed liberals and leftists, while the actual fascists are like "Hey, cool beans."

 

I disagree, that is what they like to think but when you have Codexers dictating to others how things should be because "that's how it was decided by the community" like I have seen then reality does not match up with their fantasy.  They also try to be edgy and scandalous in order to get attention, in typical meme fashion, which is why this is going to be my last post on them as I've realised that I have fallen for it myself. 

 

They tend to remind me more of the crowd in  the "Yes, we are all individuals!" scene of The Life of Brian.

 

 

All those words, and all I hear is "Our hivemind is different".

 

Which hivemind is that?


"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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If your goal is to persuade, you don't do that by pissing people off.  And the Codex does that in spades.  Why would a developer bother to listen to a group that heaps personal abuse on him?  One that ignores anything good and exaggerates anything bad?  And if they also provide clear evidence that they don't know what they're talking about (e.g. demonstrating that they don't understand the systems, because they were only playing the game to find attack points, not to enjoy it) then it's even easier to ignore them.

 

Real-life lessons apply here.  If you want someone to listen, praise what's good and then they may be able to hear you when you critique what's bad.  Show perspective.  Be professional - rants convince only the people who already agreed with you.  And be willing to take what you give - the way that Codex folks can't see any problems at all with their approach, but are so eager to talk about why everyone else is worthless, is a major tell of a real community problem.

Occasionally, we are graced with a voice of reason that raises its voice with valid concerns for a change. This was such an occasion. *Tips hat* 

Edited by IndiraLightfoot
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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I love that the RPGCodex is probably the most successful anarchist project I've seen online, yet it weathers near-constant accusations of fascism from self-appointed liberals and leftists, while the actual fascists are like "Hey, cool beans."

I disagree, that is what they like to think but when you have Codexers dictating to others how things should be because "that's how it was decided by the community" like I have seen then reality does not match up with their fantasy.  They also try to be edgy and scandalous in order to get attention, in typical meme fashion, which is why this is going to be my last post on them as I've realised that I have fallen for it myself. 

 

They tend to remind me more of the crowd in  the "Yes, we are all individuals!" scene of The Life of Brian.

 

 

All those words, and all I hear is "Our hivemind is different".

 

Which hivemind is that?

 

 

Whichever one you favour.

 

If your goal is to persuade, you don't do that by pissing people off. And the Codex does that in spades. Why would a developer bother to listen to a group that heaps personal abuse on him? One that ignores anything good and exaggerates anything bad? And if they also provide clear evidence that they don't know what they're talking about (e.g. demonstrating that they don't understand the systems, because they were only playing the game to find attack points, not to enjoy it) then it's even easier to ignore them.

 

Real-life lessons apply here. If you want someone to listen, praise what's good and then they may be able to hear you when you critique what's bad. Show perspective. Be professional - rants convince only the people who already agreed with you. And be willing to take what you give - the way that Codex folks can't see any problems at all with their approach, but are so eager to talk about why everyone else is worthless, is a major tell of a real community problem.

I don't think the RPGCodex's goal was ever to persuade. People that feel that they need to be persuaded need not apply.

 

It's also funny that you see a "community problem", while the actual community that is being discussed really do not care, and has no problem.

Edited by Luckmann

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Whichever one you favour.

 

Do I have to choose one?  Or can I continue to be the 'random prat who **** people around and has no friends' guy?  Cause I'm good at that!


"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Whichever one you favour.

Do I have to choose one?  Or can I continue to be the 'random prat who **** people around and has no friends' guy?  Cause I'm good at that!

 

Usually, it chooses you, and you'll never know. o_o


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Whichever one you favour.

Do I have to choose one?  Or can I continue to be the 'random prat who **** people around and has no friends' guy?  Cause I'm good at that!

 

Usually, it chooses you, and you'll never know. o_o

 

So you are saying that I could part of a hivemind and not even know it?  That would explain the voices in my head, and here I was worried that I was going insane!  Better start doing what they say... *lights match*


"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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I found this on the codex Blackguards review

"built on the foundation of the German “The Dark Eye” setting (in essence, a subtly tweaked and expanded version of the American “Dungeons and Dragons” system)."

 

Yes, roll 3 twenty sided dice under each attribute and buy off the failure with your skill points. Your attack bonus being 3 attributes divided by 4 (using mathmatical rounding). The arcane magic healing. The soft classes. The GURPS style traits system. Was there a secret edition I was missing somewhere? I know the first edition of DSA was very heavily based on D&D but since 3rd edition it's really been it's own thing. 

 

 

Otherwise the site itself doesn't seem so bad. Every website has their melodramatic neckbeards.

Edited by Dadalama

It's good to criticize things you love.

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BTW, Codex considers Fallout New Vegas the best Obsidian game.

 

And this Codex PoE review is not a official RPGCodex PoE review as RPGCodex has no official review staff. Anyone that has the willpower and enough writing skill can make a review for any game and Codex will post it. DarthRoxor is not representing Codex with this review but himself. Codex is an anarchist site in heart

 

Reviews always represent only that one's/ones' views who wrote it, regardless where it is published. It is just nature of reviews.

 

Yes and no. Review sites have staff that are in charge of reviewing certain games or genres. Their reviews are for all important matters the site review as well. Codex only had reviews done by members that feel like doing them and are not terrible writers. They mostly only represent themselves. It is a small difference but an important one. Edited by archangel979

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