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I'd say Monks if you can sustain wounds and stay alive...a big if. 

 

Torment's Reach nets out to ~250% damage on a single target.

  • Your initial attack hits, +50% damage added
  • The Torment's Reach cone activates, doing damage again on the same target & everything else in a cone

 

Turning Wheels adds an indeterminate amount of damage, which goes down as you use Wounds for TR.

 

A fairly normal situation for my monk even at low levels is to reach 10 wounds (+50% damage) w/ TW. Then unload with TR spam, so the TR gets +50%, then +45%, then +40%, etc..

 

Monk also has some similar questionable spellstrike bonuses like Barbarian. When Jolting Touch activates from my stiletto, enemies affected get hit for both Jolting Touch shock damage AND turning wheel fire damage. 

 

Monk also has a built in AE retaliation passive, which does the equivalent of 1H average weapon to everything around him.

 

A monk would be more limited...but Moon Godlike. +40 health per trigger at level 8, 3 triggers per encounter = 120 endurance healing per fight. That's a lot of "free" wounds on top of normal healing. Moon Godlike is basically the monk's version of Blunderbuss for Ciphers.

Edited by taek
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Monks are just more viable in the beginning of the game because their higher accuracy actually counts there.

I can only repeat myself, if you're soloing PotD (and only then) and struggling for the first 4 Levels until then, and again ONLY THEN Monk is actually the best class in the game. After the first 4 levels barb seems to be the champ for now.

I actually do wonder about the cipher though.

I started a solo PotD cipher the other day and killed Maerwald yesterday. Even though level 4 cipher is still squishier against melees than monk (and monk also can kill Raedric/Kolsc before Caed for level 5, which cipher can't) my cipher actually did better against Maerwald, then my monk!!! With the monk I had to reload once to kill Maerwald, what I did was, I took my shield off and wielded Gauns in the off-hand, that way the monk killed Maerwald without pulling any enemies towards him (many people seem to pull beetles or spiders to him, I don't like that exploity strat.)

Now the cipher did not need a reload, I killed Maerwald first try, by using a nice strat, which actually nearly won the radric fight for me also, using Antipathetic field on a summon. after my summon disposed of the first two summons of Maerwald. Because Maerwald used most of his mainspells on my summon he auto attacked my cipher and came close to me taking full damage from the antipathetic field, after 2 castings of the field his summon died though and I had to attack him directly, but his deflection is only 40ish, no trouble hitting him with cipher who has a shield equipped.

Now it seems easy to get to Level 7 for Mind Lance and I suppose the cipher will get to barb level damagewise and mybe better later on.

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monk, gotta constantly get hit to do less overall damage than rogue/barb....and fists go out of style fast.

 

sounds awesome. by awesome I mean ****ty.

 

 

Since when is it less damage?

 

If we're talking vs. a large group and vs. Barb? Perhaps, but I think that's balanced that Barb is ideal for the groups and Monk vs. the fewer, singular targets.

 

As for less damage than Rogue? Torment's Reach = Guarenteed crit. A crit is 50% additional damage, Torment's Reach is 50% crush damage. If you get a Monk with multiple wounds, you can "crit" every half second. It's very hard to outdo that. Rogue matches that damage for as long as an ailment like Blinding Strike is up, but loses out once that advantage is gone. Monk on the other hand can save up and utilize it's extra damage whenever it pleases.

 

 

Sorry, but if there are AT LEAST 2 enemies OSA plus Carnage plus Retalitation will out DPS monk in first few hits from enemies- it goes like-> (enemy) Hit, hit, hit, hit (2x per enemy and lets say you hit one if them ONCE of them and you have ONE retalitaion item): you see damage to enemies 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50 and 20-40, 20-40 (your one hit plus Carnage proc), even if half of those won't hit (but they do most time) the DPS of barb is insane. And you can use Animancer boots to it if you want and just insta-kill ANY ENEMY group in game or 2 enemies.

 

Monk is better in 1v1. But when at least 2v1 barb out DPS him, simple becasue of Carnage: EVERY hit proc two times.

 

I don't think bug abuse should be brought into this disussion

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Most of you guys talking theories here... But most of the time in game we have to deal with more than 1 enemy at a time.

If you not solo then you should have a tank and supporters with your monk/barb so lets see the variants:

 

1. Enemy pack  7-8+ - tank goes to block 3-4 enemy, the others rush for your supporters (if its an open area).

Barb in this situation will chase the rushers or help kill the ones stopped by the fighter in both situation the barb will hit more than 1 monster.

The monk will do the same and if he gets lucky a monster could stop and fight him and get him wounds. But one monster may not be enough to generate wounds fast. The key here is monsters to prefer the monk instead the wizard/priest/other supporter, otherwise we have an auto-attacking monk :)

 

2. Small pack of strong monsters (trolls ogres and so on) - the fighter could engage all of them.

Barb is free to go behind them and carnage at will.

Monk will swing at one monster without a source for wounds. If the monk doesnt have Mortification of the Soul - he will just auto-attack.

 

3. Choke points. You know the scenario.

Barb is free to use spear/staff - carnage at will.

Monk could use ranged weapon or just auto-attack with staff/spear...

 

All the variants exclude one stands alone/retaliate combo. The barb wins the DPS race.

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monk, gotta constantly get hit to do less overall damage than rogue/barb....and fists go out of style fast.

 

sounds awesome. by awesome I mean ****ty.

 

 

Since when is it less damage?

 

If we're talking vs. a large group and vs. Barb? Perhaps, but I think that's balanced that Barb is ideal for the groups and Monk vs. the fewer, singular targets.

 

As for less damage than Rogue? Torment's Reach = Guarenteed crit. A crit is 50% additional damage, Torment's Reach is 50% crush damage. If you get a Monk with multiple wounds, you can "crit" every half second. It's very hard to outdo that. Rogue matches that damage for as long as an ailment like Blinding Strike is up, but loses out once that advantage is gone. Monk on the other hand can save up and utilize it's extra damage whenever it pleases.

 

 

Sorry, but if there are AT LEAST 2 enemies OSA plus Carnage plus Retalitation will out DPS monk in first few hits from enemies- it goes like-> (enemy) Hit, hit, hit, hit (2x per enemy and lets say you hit one if them ONCE of them and you have ONE retalitaion item): you see damage to enemies 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50 and 20-40, 20-40 (your one hit plus Carnage proc), even if half of those won't hit (but they do most time) the DPS of barb is insane. And you can use Animancer boots to it if you want and just insta-kill ANY ENEMY group in game or 2 enemies.

 

Monk is better in 1v1. But when at least 2v1 barb out DPS him, simple becasue of Carnage: EVERY hit proc two times.

 

I don't think bug abuse should be brought into this disussion

 

 

Sorry, but as long as devs do not confirm that OSA is bugged or OP (and they didn’t in any thread or patch notes), which I don’t belive it is, for me this talent is perfectly fine and good.

 

You see thanks to OSA barbarian does best what he should does best- annihilate group of mobs in melee combat better than any other class. That is his mechanic- Carnage and OSA. He should be MUCH more capable in dealing with group of mobs. Even loading screen information gives you tip to do that- “send barbarian on group of mobs”.

 

It is Retalitation enchant that imo is bugged, since it proc from every melee/damage bonuses in-game and stack with 2 items configuration: Shied+Armor and Shield+Cape. Same as Jolting Touch spell is considered a melee ability. Those are true bugs.

 

We are after 4 patches to Phillars and some skills were already fixed by simple number tweaks (Mind Blades to not look far). OSA tweak would require just changing a number of bonus it gives to 1.2. However it wasn’t done so far, and it is matter of minute to tweak- so I assume that OSA I perfect fine and berserker-like skill.

 

It is retalitation enchant that devs imo did not think through and instead of being nice support for tank (so he do some more damage) it is meta-gear for most solo builds: especially Rouges, Barbs or Ciphers (Focus generating- that is bugged imo).

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monk, gotta constantly get hit to do less overall damage than rogue/barb....and fists go out of style fast.

 

sounds awesome. by awesome I mean ****ty.

 

 

Since when is it less damage?

 

If we're talking vs. a large group and vs. Barb? Perhaps, but I think that's balanced that Barb is ideal for the groups and Monk vs. the fewer, singular targets.

 

As for less damage than Rogue? Torment's Reach = Guarenteed crit. A crit is 50% additional damage, Torment's Reach is 50% crush damage. If you get a Monk with multiple wounds, you can "crit" every half second. It's very hard to outdo that. Rogue matches that damage for as long as an ailment like Blinding Strike is up, but loses out once that advantage is gone. Monk on the other hand can save up and utilize it's extra damage whenever it pleases.

 

 

Sorry, but if there are AT LEAST 2 enemies OSA plus Carnage plus Retalitation will out DPS monk in first few hits from enemies- it goes like-> (enemy) Hit, hit, hit, hit (2x per enemy and lets say you hit one if them ONCE of them and you have ONE retalitaion item): you see damage to enemies 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50 and 20-40, 20-40 (your one hit plus Carnage proc), even if half of those won't hit (but they do most time) the DPS of barb is insane. And you can use Animancer boots to it if you want and just insta-kill ANY ENEMY group in game or 2 enemies.

 

Monk is better in 1v1. But when at least 2v1 barb out DPS him, simple becasue of Carnage: EVERY hit proc two times.

 

I don't think bug abuse should be brought into this disussion

 

 

Sorry, but as long as devs do not confirm that OSA is bugged or OP (and they didn’t in any thread or patch notes), which I don’t belive it is, for me this talent is perfectly fine and good.

 

You see thanks to OSA barbarian does best what he should does best- annihilate group of mobs in melee combat better than any other class. That is his mechanic- Carnage and OSA. He should be MUCH more capable in dealing with group of mobs. Even loading screen information gives you tip to do that- “send barbarian on group of mobs”.

 

It is Retalitation enchant that imo is bugged, since it proc from every melee/damage bonuses in-game and stack with 2 items configuration: Shied+Armor and Shield+Cape. Same as Jolting Touch spell is considered a melee ability. Those are true bugs.

 

We are after 4 patches to Phillars and some skills were already fixed by simple number tweaks (Mind Blades to not look far). OSA tweak would require just changing a number of bonus it gives to 1.2. However it wasn’t done so far, and it is matter of minute to tweak- so I assume that OSA I perfect fine and berserker-like skill.

 

It is retalitation enchant that devs imo did not think through and instead of being nice support for tank (so he do some more damage) it is meta-gear for most solo builds: especially Rouges, Barbs or Ciphers (Focus generating- that is bugged imo).

 

There are plenty of glaring bugs that haven't been fixed yet. That's a matter of discovering and prioritizing bugs by devs. Retaliation stacking, Carnage + touch spells and OSA are all bugs whether you admit it or not and will be fixed eventually. Nothing in the OSA skill description suggests that it should  work like it does if you want to look by the facts.  Now, what you are describing is achieved by abusing all 3 bugs simultaneously.

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if I stop coming here it will be because of the ever present notions of certain approaches being cheap, exploits, legitimate cheats, cheese and similar pejoratives.

 

I would say LEARN TO PLAY SCRUBS but it will not help me any but rather the opposite.

 

I do not go around saying how cheap its to have min/max full party because it makes the game joke on any difficulty if one knows what s/he doing. So stop it .. if its in game and it not bug it legit and totally fine to use. Its an insult (to me) to call such approaches by pejoratives.

Edited by knownastherat
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if I stop coming here it will be because of the ever present notions of certain approaches being cheap, exploits, legitimate cheats, cheese and similar pejoratives.

 

I would say LEARN TO PLAY SCRUBS but it will not help me any but rather the opposite.

 

I do not go around saying how cheap its to have min/max full party because it makes the game joke on any difficulty if one knows what s/he doing. So stop it .. if its in game and it not bug it legit and totally fine to use. Its an insult (to me) to call such approaches by pejoratives.

And what if it is in the game and IS a bug? Is infinite stat stacking ok too?

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If its a bug its a bug and should be dealt with accordingly. Its a different ball game from maximizing performance. Let me quote from the link above to demonstrate:

 

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

 

You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.

 

Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.

 

A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.

 

 

 

We can continue this "cheap" vs "scrub" but its not too constructive and pleasant.

Edited by knownastherat
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I haven't even tried barb yet because everyone complains how cheap it is.

That screenshot where one guy killed the ogre group in one shot solo was just too much. :o

Monk is cheap enough for me, who needs a barb? ;P

Barb is only super OP if you exploit a very specific bugged interaction between One Stands Alone (which is crazy OP right now due to a BUG) and Retaliation. Without exploiting bugs, barb isn't that ridiculous - but is very good all the same.

 

Having used both a Monk and a Barb though, Monk wins hands down in single target dps. Barb wins at AoE.

 

EDIT: Also, there's a difference between something that is cheap and something that is an exploit.

 

Cheap tactics are those that are far more effective than they have any right to be, but are still completely within the rules of the game - like Estocs, door blocking, figurines and Ciphers. I have no problem with players using cheap tactics (why not, they're trying to win after all) but I will call for the devs to fix them so the game isn't stupid easy.

 

Exploits, on the other hand, are things that are very clearly bugs. Players can use them if they want, but it's clear that they aren't intended to exist and I would exempt them from balance discussions because of that.

 

Cheap vs Exploit. There's a big difference.

Edited by Matt516
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I haven't called anything "cheap", I called it a bug because it is clearly a bug. I also don't consider myself a scrub, I was skilled enough to solo the game at least.

 

You are free to say anything you like. It just I am getting frustrated. I play the game to my best abilities, trying different builds and tactics, then I come here to read depredatory remarks about my play style.

 

Perhaps depredatory remarks should be made towards devs who put it in the game in the first place? But who has balls for that ..

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I haven't called anything "cheap", I called it a bug because it is clearly a bug. I also don't consider myself a scrub, I was skilled enough to solo the game at least.

 

You are free to say anything you like. It just I am getting frustrated. I play the game to my best abilities, trying different builds and tactics, then I come here to read depredatory remarks about my play style.

 

Perhaps depredatory remarks should be made towards devs who put it in the game in the first place? But who has balls for that ..

 

Plenty of derogatory comments have been made towards the devs. Have you read the stronghold thread in this forum?

 

Look, in this game virtually all the damage bonuses that aren't DR reductions are multipliers applied to the base damage of the weapon. These are generally in the 15-50% range. The best melee weapons do 14-20 damage per hit. That makes OSA the equivalent of a 100% damage boost if you're using a two-handed weapon, or even more if you're dual-wielding. So people are looking at an ability that's at least twice as good as any other damage boost in the game and saying "That's probably an oversight that will be fixed when the devs get the chance to do a balance pass."

 

If you want to use it, go for it. More power to you. Go whole hog and gib everything with your dual-wielding Barbarian. I might do it myself in my next playthrough to live it up a bit. But we're not going to get anywhere in a discussion comparing classes if OSA is on the table, because it obviously overshadows anything else and is more than likely going to go away.

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Okay.. So where is the ignore option on this forum to put all these patients where they belong? I don't want to go through all this garbage while searching for good posts.

 

 

if I stop coming here it will be because of the ever present notions of certain approaches being cheap, exploits, legitimate cheats, cheese and similar pejoratives.

 

I would say LEARN TO PLAY SCRUBS but it will not help me any but rather the opposite.

 

I do not go around saying how cheap its to have min/max full party because it makes the game joke on any difficulty if one knows what s/he doing. So stop it .. if its in game and it not bug it legit and totally fine to use. Its an insult (to me) to call such approaches by pejoratives.

 

You learn to play then you won't need to abuse bugs etc and pretend everything is swell. It's not difficult to win that way, most politicians do it easily. And we don't even care if you abuse bugs and use exploits, as long as you don't pretend here in the forum that bug is not a bug and exploit not an exploit.

 

 

 

Most of you guys talking theories here... But most of the time in game we have to deal with more than 1 enemy at a time.

If you not solo then you should have a tank and supporters with your monk/barb so lets see the variants:

 

Regarding Monk vs Barbarian / Rogue I've a few issues with that comparison.

 

Classes that are only about dps should obviously be better at that than other classes. On the other hand my monks with Force of Anguish provide a LOT of utility with just that skill, and while I don't know how their dps is compared to Barbarians and Rogues, it's very good so far (hard ironman). Will it be good later? Will I run into problems if entire enemy tough mob has high Fortitude? No idea, can't tell.

 

You say that if not solo I should have a tank and supporters.. well I've neither. I've 6 dps monks and that's it. If they get hit they get Wounds, so they can defend themselves with FoA or offensively. If they don't get hit, the situation is going well. Considering how good autoattacks are on dps melee, I really don't feel like I'm losing anything even if some characters don't have wounds. At this point they're more useful than chanters I used to have, no-dmg fighter tank, or casters who would always save their spells "when needed" and until then - autoattack. Is this going to work later on? Again, I don't know.

 

Does anyone know if 6 dps melee can run into some perma AoE stun/paralyze? In other words, do I need Clarity of Agony until level 11, or I'm fine? I'm testing it right now on one character, and it's 15sec per cast, so if I cast it twice in a battle that's 30sec of 50% debuff duration. Would get me out of perma stun etc but don't know if I need it that badly.

Edited by The Josip
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If its a bug its a bug and should be dealt with accordingly. Its a different ball game from maximizing performance. Let me quote from the link above to demonstrate:

 

 

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

 

You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.

 

Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.

 

A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.

 

 

 

We can continue this "cheap" vs "scrub" but its not too constructive and pleasant.

Is that a Seth Killian quote?

As to the discussion I don't mind being cheap or cheesy, but the barb is just too much atm and I want it at least confirmed whether it's a bug or not.

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Does anyone know if 6 dps melee can run into some perma AoE stun/paralyze? In other words, do I need Clarity of Agony until level 11, or I'm fine? I'm testing it right now on one character, and it's 15sec per cast, so if I cast it twice in a battle that's 30sec of 50% debuff duration. Would get me out of perma stun etc but don't know if I need it that badly.

 

 

2 enemy types I know of have a big aoe stun, the banshee type spirits...

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Cean_G%C3%BAla

 

And one or two Vithrack variants, Vithrack Exarchs I think.  

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Vithrack

 

Vithrack encounters with an aoe stun are rare, 3 or 4 in the game at most.  They are quite dangerous though, there is some sort of psychic aoe that hits your whole party for a ton of damage.  Vithrack in general are fond of using dominate as well.  The banshee type spirits are more common, for a monk party they might be challenging as well due to their fear aura that will debuff your accuracy, maybe consider keeping some warpaint handy for accuracy.

 

It's possible there are others i don't recall.

Edited by Climhazzard
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In the tech forum, a dev has posted that One Stands Alone is bugged currently and that a change is coming in a future patch.

 

Well good to know. I won't patch my game from this day on :) I like it concept too much. I feel like Gutts from Berserker :D

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In the tech forum, a dev has posted that One Stands Alone is bugged currently and that a change is coming in a future patch.

Well good to know. I won't patch my game from this day on :) I like it concept too much. I feel like Gutts from Berserker :D

If you want to abuse bugs why not patch and just use console and set your Might to 99? Theres no difference really.

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Different people draw the line in different places for what's considered an exploit.

 

For some people, if it's in the game then it's not an exploit.  Until actually patched.

 

If you don't agree, you could say the person is an exploiter.  He'd say you're playing the game badly.  ;)

Edited by Daemonjax
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Different people draw the line in different places for what's considered an exploit.

 

For some people, if it's in the game then it's not an exploit. Until actually patched.

 

If you don't agree, you could say the person is an exploiter. He'd say you're playing the game badly. ;)

No. Thats just using semantics to avoid responsibility. Exploit is something unintended. Everyone is free to enjoy the game in any way and thats fine. But lets call bugs bugs and exploit exploits. Or I'll RP that console is special divine power bestowed on me, and perfectly legit.

 

The problem isnt that people use exploits and bugs. The problem is they do that and then in forum boast how they did trple crown and what not, or claim class X is great because bugged skill X does instakills. That doesnt help.

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Different people draw the line in different places for what's considered an exploit.

 

For some people, if it's in the game then it's not an exploit. Until actually patched.

 

If you don't agree, you could say the person is an exploiter. He'd say you're playing the game badly. ;)

No. Thats just using semantics to avoid responsibility. Exploit is something unintended. Everyone is free to enjoy the game in any way and thats fine. But lets call bugs bugs and exploit exploits. Or I'll RP that console is special divine power bestowed on me, and perfectly legit.

 

The problem isnt that people use exploits and bugs. The problem is they do that and then in forum boast how they did trple crown and what not, or claim class X is great because bugged skill X does instakills. That doesnt help.

 

 

No, sir. You are just saying your opinion, which is fine but you try to force your opinions on us, sying that your must be good, just and right.

 

You see, I beat 2 times TC with retalitation barbarian. I find it totally legit achievement becasue I used what game provides me with. I did not use 3-rd party mod to do it, nor console. I did it with what games provide me with. If game provode me with OP skills/mechanics, bugs etc. that is game and devs fault, not mine. I won't wait months to do this achievement just to be sure "ok, there are no more bugs, not more exploits, no more, now I can do it".

I respect your opinion and do not try to say to you that mine is correct. However please stop forcing it on me. You said yourself "Everyone is free to enjoy the game in any way and thats fine". And it should end here. If you do not enjoy beating TC with OP mechanics- fine, if that is good to you. I beat it with OP mechanic and I have satisfaction with it.

 

Thats it.

 

Monk is very good class in 1v1 fights or against small group of mobs. However he suck hard against bigger groups becasue he has to build wounds, which means to deal MAX dps he has to lost health, while barb already start doing max damage around with OSA and that is why I like him.

 

I have yet to see PotD Endless Paths done with solo monk. With solo barb- it is totally doable, since 98% of fights there are against big groups of mobs.

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Different people draw the line in different places for what's considered an exploit.

 

For some people, if it's in the game then it's not an exploit. Until actually patched.

 

If you don't agree, you could say the person is an exploiter. He'd say you're playing the game badly. ;)

No. Thats just using semantics to avoid responsibility. Exploit is something unintended. Everyone is free to enjoy the game in any way and thats fine. But lets call bugs bugs and exploit exploits. Or I'll RP that console is special divine power bestowed on me, and perfectly legit.

 

The problem isnt that people use exploits and bugs. The problem is they do that and then in forum boast how they did trple crown and what not, or claim class X is great because bugged skill X does instakills. That doesnt help.

 

 

No, sir. You are just saying your opinion, which is fine but you try to force your opinions on us, sying that your must be good, just and right.

 

You see, I beat 2 times TC with retalitation barbarian. I find it totally legit achievement becasue I used what game provides me with. I did not use 3-rd party mod to do it, nor console. I did it with what games provide me with. If game provode me with OP skills/mechanics, bugs etc. that is game and devs fault, not mine. I won't wait months to do this achievement just to be sure "ok, there are no more bugs, not more exploits, no more, now I can do it".

I respect your opinion and do not try to say to you that mine is correct. However please stop forcing it on me. You said yourself "Everyone is free to enjoy the game in any way and thats fine". And it should end here. If you do not enjoy beating TC with OP mechanics- fine, if that is good to you. I beat it with OP mechanic and I have satisfaction with it.

 

Thats it.

 

Monk is very good class in 1v1 fights or against small group of mobs. However he suck hard against bigger groups becasue he has to build wounds, which means to deal MAX dps he has to lost health, while barb already start doing max damage around with OSA and that is why I like him.

 

I have yet to see PotD Endless Paths done with solo monk. With solo barb- it is totally doable, since 98% of fights there are against big groups of mobs.

 

Game also provides you with the console. Also, one thing is if you accidentally picked a bugged ability, another if you consciously went for it. Anyway, whatever's fun for you. But this in no way should be a part of balance discussion, especially since it's confirmed to be fixed.

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